Transgenderism

[Colt]

It's been a known phenomenon for decades that there's male transvestites and some of them decide to transition for primarily sexual reasons. They don't have a cross-sex perception of themselves from a young age and everything is about sex and looking like a hooker to them. They rarely pass or blend in as women because they're not - they're men and have a clear male psychology. They're usually misogynists, as well. Theres been an explosion of those people lately and it's usually them making "actual trans" people (transsexuals) look bad because they're so loud.

I remember when there was klinger on M.A.S.H. But he was just trying to get discharged! It's gotten way more complicated.

As an aside I find it puzzling that gay men who are really feminine still identify as men and don't dress like women? One might assume that they may feel like a women trapped in a mans body? Trans men who become women don't often strike me as feminine?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Because you're suggesting that YOUR scriptures are binding on everyone. Newsflash: they are not. That Christians believe their scriptures are binding on everyone is beyond old, not to mention arrogant and downright annoying. Give it a rest already.

^ This.

Winner frubal.

 

[Ella S.]

I’m here in good faith.

If you're calling into doubt what we already know about gender, which is that it's objective, measurable, and can be diagnosed, then I don't care. If you're simply confused about the subject, I'll elaborate on my earlier post:

If someone is transgender, they cannot become cisgender by choosing to identify with the gender they were assigned at birth. Being transgender is not a choice.

It's also not a mental illness; gender dysphoria is the mental illness and it's a consequence of being transgender. If you could change your gender by merely choosing to identify with another gender, then gender dysphoria would be curable through conversion therapy. It isn't, and conversion therapy is not only widely debunked pseudoscience but it makes gender dysphoria worse.

Many trans people do not even realize they are trans until later in life, because it's something they discover about themselves and not something they choose or invent.

"Gender identity" is important to respect in social contexts, because we can't reliably determine the gender of other people unless we're specifically diagnosing them in a clinical context. To add on to my previous example, someone could be socialized as cisgender and identify as cisgender without even realizing that they are transgender. So we would refer to that person by their gender identity, since we can't know what their actual gender is.

There are other arguments for loosening the social restrictions we place on gender expression and gender roles, but they are unrelated to the question of whether being transgender is a scientific fact or some sort of Satanic ideology. It's not really relevant to the topic and it's not something that I have any personal interest in discussing.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Is this what you guys believe? That you have a “true” gender identity derived from an objective realm?

You have a gender from your brain and a sexuality for your body, which can be different.

 

[Ella S.]

I remember when there was klinger on M.A.S.H. But he was just trying to get discharged! It's gotten way more complicated.

As an aside I find it puzzling that gay men who are really feminine still identify as men and don't dress like women? One might assume that they may feel like a women trapped in a mans body? Trans men who become women don't often strike me as feminine?

Is that really strange? I don't think most men are uber-macho or most women are effeminate girly girls to begin with. I'm a woman and I doubt many people would be jumping to describe me as feminine, even if I have my own private relationship with womanhood.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

You have a gender from your brain and a sexuality for your body, which can be different.

Then, am I capable of dis-identifying with whichever gender my brain imposes on me?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Some of them no doubtedly. Many are born into it. The idea of leaving it is often deeply terrifying, even if you want to leave. So some are stuck in an abusive relationship.
I would think those looking for more love and less Hell would tend to go elsewhere, especially adults who can more freely choose church attendance.

Speaking from personal experience, and I know you can relate, it's such a tremendous relief to finally be free of it. However, I understand how difficult it can be to break free from its entangling grip and fearmongering threats. I was emotionally entangled in Christianity for over forty years, so I understand how difficult it is to break free. I was a devout Christian for thirty years before I deconverted, and I believed in God for many years before becoming a Christian. If my deconversion has taught me anything, it is to be willing to assist others who are struggling to leave Christianity or are considering leaving.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Then, am I capable of dis-identifying with whichever gender my brain imposes on me?

Yes, if you are a biological male and consider your gender male due to social norms, but it is female then you, if you realize that your gender is female, have mis-identified your gender.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Yes, if you are a biological male and consider your gender male due to social norms, but it is female then you, if you realize that your gender is female, have mis-identified your gender.

You misunderstood me. If my brain dictates that I am male, am I capable of choosing (agency) to identify as female?

 

[Colt]

Is that really strange? I don't think most men are uber-macho or most women are effeminate girly girls to begin with. I'm a woman and I doubt many people would be jumping to describe me as feminine, even if I have my own private relationship with womanhood.

Yes, if trans people feel like one gender trapped in the body of another then it seems that really feminine gay men could make the case that they feel like a women trapped in a mans body.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Parents start noticing this early in the child's life. Also sometimes there is confusion on whether they are

Not necessarily. Some hide it very well even early on. Myself, and I doubt I'm the only one, despite acting very masculine I'm pretty sure my mom thought I'm gay.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I was born into it and had no trouble at all walking away from it. Of all the kids in our family and in our church who were about my age, in hindsight it wasn't too difficult to predict which ones would stay and which ones would leave.

Once I made the decision to leave it was easy for me as well, but I know for many that isn't the case. Some even have lingering fears amd doubts years after the fact.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You misunderstood me. If my brain dictates that I am male, am I capable of choosing (agency) to identify as female?

Your question is too simple for all its variants.
There is sex, gender and the social understanding of those and how the social understanding playing out in an individual.

 

[Ella S.]

Speaking from personal experience, and I know you can relate, it's such a tremendous relief to finally be free of it. However, I understand how difficult it can be to break free from its entangling grip and fearmongering threats. I was emotionally entangled in Christianity for over forty years, so I understand how difficult it is to break free. I was a devout Christian for thirty years before I deconverted, and I believed in God for many years before becoming a Christian. If my deconversion has taught me anything, it is to be willing to assist others who are struggling to leave Christianity or are considering leaving.

It's awkward to explain to some Christians that de-conversion was a painful and difficult process that I never wanted to undergo, but also that my life is so much better having left the religion behind. I am happier as an ex-Christian, but I didn't choose to forsake God to enjoy sin or anything. It's just that, in hindsight, the whole religion centers around an abusive father figure working through the intermediaries of totalitarian institutions. I simply didn't realize this until after I left the religion.

I always thought it was hyperbole when anti-theists described Christianity that way and that the criticism only really applied to, like, the Westboro Baptist Church. My faith wasn't based on hate like theirs. My faith was based on love and reason. Or at least, so I believed, because that's what my local totalitarian authorities told me I had to believe according to the abusive father figure who was always reading my mind to make sure I never thought otherwise.

I underestimated how affected I was by this idea of some supreme authority constantly reading my mind and judging my every thought. It's really a miserable way to live; you're essentially always under someone's boot that you can't even reliably commune with.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Your question is too simple for all its variants.
There is sex, gender and the social understanding of those and how the social understanding playing out in an individual.

You just veered away from truth seeking into obfuscation with this response.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You just veered away from truth seeking into obfuscation with this response.

So are there a difference between sex and gender in some people, because their say physical body is male and brain female.
If you want it in truth terms, then yes, that is true.
As for objective, that depends on how you understand that word.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

So are there a difference between sex and gender in some people, because their say physical body is male and brain female.
If you want it in truth terms, then yes, that is true.
As for objective, that depends on how you understand that word.

I will ask again: if my “brain is female”, am I capable of choosing (agency) to identify as male?

 

[Father Heathen]

As an aside I find it puzzling that gay men who are really feminine still identify as men and don't dress like women? One might assume that they may feel like a women trapped in a mans body?

Because that's not how gender dysphoria works.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I will ask again: if my “brain is female”, am I capable of choosing (agency) to identify as male?

And your question is too simple.
So here is the long answer.
If male/male in a standard 2 sexes and nothing else society, then you properly won't choose a female gender.
If male/female in in a standard 2 sexes and nothing else society, you can learn as per society that you are male/male and never consider that your gender is female.

 

[Colt]

Because that's not how gender dysphoria works.

These kinds of mental disorders are difficult to spot.