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Tragedy in Iraq

maggie2

Active Member
I want to preface this thread by saying that as a Canadian I have many American friends and truly appreciate Americans. At one time I would have considered moving to the USA, in fact , so I write this with sorrow and not with anger.

Recently it has come to light that there are at least three instances of Iraqui citizens being killed by US armed forces. In one instance there were 24 people killed, some of them children and women. Investigations are now underway.

On another thread a while back someone asked about why other countries dislike America. Here is a perfect example of that. I am just watching Norah O'Donnell on Hardball and she is talking with people about this situation. The discussion centers around the fact that in the instance of these 24 deaths, it was caused because one of their buddies had been killed. Several other commentators, including Tucker Carlson keep talking about having to keep this in context and realizing how hard it is for the troops. Excuses are being made for this behavior. If Iraquis had done this the American people would be screaming, and rightly so. The propaganda that is being fed through the media about this is amazing and disgusting.

I realize that being over there must be hell. However, that doesn't make it right to kill kids. The American people need to stand up and demand that the media tell the truth and stop trying to sugar coat it. The people need to demand that their government be accountable for what has happened instead of trying to excuse it.

Bush has said that the troops will be required to take ethics training. Does anyone really realize how ridiculous that sounds to the rest of the world? That's like trying to put a bandaid on a gash on your leg that is 8" long and open an inch. No one can take him seriously when he spouts ideas that are such garbage.

If the American people want to be seen as the wonderful people they have always been they need to start standing up to this garbage and doing something about it.

Add this to the fact that the Bush government has totally screwed up the recovery from Katrina and bodies are still being found, some are still unidentified and now just yesterday a new report shows that the Corps of Engineers are largely responsible for the breach of the levies, Abu Grabb, Gitmo, and more and the black eye on the American government is enormous.

It makes me want to weep to know that our friends to the south are going through such tough times and I think that it is their government and the media that are mainly responsible. However, nothing will change until the people stand up and take back their country, their freedom and their lives.

Someone needs to start telling the truth, which the government and media have not been doing for a long time now.
 

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
maggie2 said:
If the American people want to be seen as the wonderful people they have always been they need to start standing up to this garbage and doing something about it.
Oh trust me, we do but it gets silenced pretty quickly. Not to mention it gets little or no press. Majority certainly does not rule over here.

maggie2 said:
Add this to the fact that the Bush government has totally screwed up the recovery from Katrina and bodies are still being found, some are still unidentified and now just yesterday a new report shows that the Corps of Engineers are largely responsible for the breach of the levies, Abu Grabb, Gitmo, and more and the black eye on the American government is enormous.
Don't get me started on the corruption and neglegence that plagues our government.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
maggie2 said:
Recently it has come to light that there are at least three instances of Iraqui citizens being killed by US armed forces. In one instance there were 24 people killed, some of them children and women. Investigations are now underway.

On another thread a while back someone asked about why other countries dislike America. Here is a perfect example of that. I am just watching Norah O'Donnell on Hardball and she is talking with people about this situation. The discussion centers around the fact that in the instance of these 24 deaths, it was caused because one of their buddies had been killed. Several other commentators, including Tucker Carlson keep talking about having to keep this in context and realizing how hard it is for the troops. Excuses are being made for this behavior. If Iraquis had done this the American people would be screaming, and rightly so. The propaganda that is being fed through the media about this is amazing and disgusting.
I view the media as an entity not to be trusted for the most part...for either side of a situation pro or con. If a story such as this one interests me, I usually do much searching on my own before I come to a conclusion one way or another. I look at the media as a money pimp first, unbiased news source second. So, please forgive me if I don't have an opinion yet. Obviously the deaths are tragic however and the deaths of children are the toughest to take. I just need to know more background and will have to wait to hear investigative news first.

If the American people want to be seen as the wonderful people they have always been they need to start standing up to this garbage and doing something about it.
You probably have no idea of the number of protests that go on around the nation and the letters written to governmental officials about the war. Last time I heard, a majority of Americans are against the war and are sick to death of all the prison scandals as well. I don't have much faith in George or his advisors to listen though. One of the traits about W that I dislike the most is his stubbornness. He is pig headed to a fault and does not listen well nor take contrary advice at all. At least Clinton was intelligent enough to keep an open mind.

Someone needs to start telling the truth, which the government and media have not been doing for a long time now.
I agree and try to do my part to kick the government in the arse. Maybe if we have millions of arse kickers something will be done about this stupid war. In another thread, The Iraq War was my #1 of 5 for my top fixes. We need to get out of Iraq SOON!
 

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
I think what is sad is that the Americans seem to be reeling from this news. They are, I guess, honestly suprised. I don't think anyone else is, especially the Vietnamese villagers that went to their graves minus their ears. Now its the turn of Iraq, same situation it seems, but I'm not sure they have rolled out bounty yet.




"Kerrey’s Seals were operating under the procedures of the sinister Phoenix programme — the CIA inspired reign of terror that set a quota of 3,000 “neutralised” Viet Cong supporters per month. The CIA also paid a bounty to anyone bringing in “the head or ears” of a suspected Communist."

...tho' as so often been pointed out communist ears look pretty similar to normal ears, after all blood is red.
 

Melody

Well-Known Member
I think I'm going to wait to hear all of it before I convict these soldiers. The video tapes are of dead bodies, not the actual shootings. I guess I'm cynical enough to believe that the terrorist could have done this and the villagers willing to go along with it out of fear, collaboration or who knows why else.

I'm withholding judgment either way.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
kai said:
if you train young men to kill, then put them in a killing zone, then they better have iron discipline, or a disaster is matter of when.

Very good point; and while we're talking of that, an English policeman is supposed to have shot a potential terrorist in the shoulder.

I think that it is impossible to know how it must be like being there, without living it. All I can think of when we hear of these occurences is "I wonder if they went on in WWII, and we just didn't ever get to hear about them ". I know that the british army in Northern Ireland used to be renowned for saying "I can't just stand there and be shot at, abused, and not respond".

As far as America's reputation, I think it would be grossly unfair to judge a nation of the behaviour of a leader who is obviously a puppet, and who can't remember his lines. I think you could judge Britain and France straight away for being as bad, if that is how one judges a people.
 

kai

ragamuffin
michel said:
Very good point; and while we're talking of that, an English policeman is supposed to have shot a potential terrorist in the shoulder.

I think that it is impossible to know how it must be like being there, without living it. All I can think of when we hear of these occurences is "I wonder if they went on in WWII, and we just didn't ever get to hear about them ". I know that the british army in Northern Ireland used to be renowned for saying "I can't just stand there and be shot at, abused, and not respond".

As far as America's reputation, I think it would be grossly unfair to judge a nation of the behaviour of a leader who is obviously a puppet, and who can't remember his lines. I think you could judge Britain and France straight away for being as bad, if that is how one judges a people.
Oh i wasnt judging anyone ,i was just meaning that not many people have experienced being in such a nerve racking,psychologicaly damaging,scenario as combat , where discipline can save your own life too,as an ex soldier with two tours of N ireland i had to account for every round that i was issued,of course it went on in ww11 but with todays media you will know about it within a very short while,
 

evearael

Well-Known Member
This is tragic, but I will wait until more information regarding the incident comes out before stating an opinion either way. If the soldiers are guilty, they should be punished. If they are not, the insurgents responsible should be found and punished.
 

kai

ragamuffin
evearael said:
This is tragic, but I will wait until more information regarding the incident comes out before stating an opinion either way. If the soldiers are guilty, they should be punished. If they are not, the insurgents responsible should be found and punished.


Agreed!
 

kreeden

Virus of the Mind
Canada and the U.S. have very different views on war . Two extremes I think . In Canada , many people seen to think that war can be fought in a " friendly , honourable " way . In the U.S. , as long as they are winning ...

In Canada , whole regiments have been disbanded because of the " uncivil " actions of a few . " Friendly fire " is unacceptable under any condition .

I don't know . As I said , the two views appear to be extremes of one another . War is not civil . But at the same time , we all must be responsible for our actions .
 
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