Torath Mosheh Jews and Paul and the Law

[David Davidovich]

It could have been that there conept of a "god" was at fault. It could also be that their concept of what was in their own hands and what was not in their hands was off. Maybe even they were not paying attention to some of the environmental realities that sometimes mark these kinds of events. Further, it could be that their reliance on certain types of societal norms opened them up to such.

So, the planet the way it was created had nothing to do with its own natural disasters?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

So, the planet the way it was created had nothing to do with its own natural disasters?

The planet as it exists is survivable and with all of the tools to be prosperous in it. There have been cultures all over the planet who survive every day in tune with the natural world as it is. The following may help.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

So, the planet the way it was created had nothing to do with its own natural disasters?

This couple's perspective on something that hit them due to the weather is a good one. Watch their summary at the end of the video.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

So, the planet the way it was created had nothing to do with its own natural disasters?

Think of like this. I once lived in California for 1.5 years. One day I was at work and it felt like the floor fell down and then came back up. I asked people at my job, "What was that?" They responded, "That was a small earthquake." I thought to myself. Wait a minute California is on a major fault line. If that was a small one I don't want to be here for a big one. (Especially not livin in a major populated area.) So, eventually I left California.

At another time I lived in NYC, Manhattan. At a certain point I decided that NYC, because of how densely populated it is, would not be the best place for me to live if an emergancy were to happen. While living there I got to see a small taste of them when the 2003 Northeast blackout took place. I saw the writing on the wall and I left there and moved here to Israel in 2007. After I left, I got to see that I made the right decision when Hurricane Sandy hit, when Corona hit, Hurricane Ida, the 2015 earthquake. All of the places I had previously lived were not the types of places that I "personally" would want to experience those events. I.e. I saw the writing on the wall and knew when I had to get to better ground.

 

[David Davidovich]

The planet as it exists is survivable and with all of the tools to be prosperous in it. There have been cultures all over the planet who survive every day in tune with the natural world as it is. The following may help.

Meat, Honey, and Corn Porridge? lol @Ehav4Ever, I don't mean to laugh (and I haven't watched the other two videos yet), but I thought that you had said in another post that Hashem had wanted us to progress in advanced technology so that we can better help with the woes of this planet and perhaps even travel the star in case we need to. Also, I may have also asked you this (and I can't remember): if Hashem actually wanted humans to remain primitive and low tech... and I think that you said something like no he didn't. But let me watch the other two videos.

 

[David Davidovich]

The planet as it exists is survivable and with all of the tools to be prosperous in it. There have been cultures all over the planet who survive every day in tune with the natural world as it is. The following may help.

Once again, this second video seems to hint at that we would be better off if we were low tech more primitive and were still hunter gathers... And that is probably the way that Hashem really wants us to be. But let me watch the third video to see what it has to say.

 

[David Davidovich]

This couple's perspective on something that hit them due to the weather is a good one. Watch their summary at the end of the video.

Oops! I accidentally watched this one instead of the other one, but I still don't understand the revelance.

 

[David Davidovich]

The planet as it exists is survivable and with all of the tools to be prosperous in it. There have been cultures all over the planet who survive every day in tune with the natural world as it is. The following may help.

Sorry, but I don't have all this time to watch all these videos, especially this one, which is 19 minutes long. So, I'll try to come back and watch it some other time to see how it relates the other two videos that I watched.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Sorry, but I don't have all this time to watch all these videos, especially this one, which is 19 minutes long. So, I'll try to come back and watch it some other time to see how it relates the other two videos that I watched.

Not a problem. It is not a rush.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Oops! I accidentally watched this one instead of the other one, but I still don't understand the revelance.

The relevance is that they had a major setback due to the weather that destroyed a major peice of work they that they. As they stated, it brought them down a bit, but they are positive about it and allow the challenge to make them stronger. Their outlook is similar to others who live naturally knowing that the natural world, as it is is survivable, and all it takes is the right perspective.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Once again, this second video seems to hint at that we would be better off if we were low tech more primitive and were still hunter gathers... And that is probably the way that Hashem really wants us to be. But let me watch the third video to see what it has to say.

That might be true or it might not be true. In matters like that there is no we. The current reality is what it is. Yet, it may be as simple as recognizing how much genetic potential Hashem placed into even in the most couch pototatoed person and deciding to put away the tech at specific times and get out into the real world. That is exactly the concept of Shabbat (Sabbath) for Torath Mosheh Jews. It was given as a way for Torath Mosheh Jews to put aside the work week, and all of the distractions that come along with it, and focus on Hashem, family, and the natural world.

The third video takes an approach of using what exists and living as natural as possible with what we have developed throughout human history.

 

[David Davidovich]

Think of like this. I once lived in California for 1.5 years. One day I was at work and it felt like the floor fell down and then came back up. I asked people at my job, "What was that?" They responded, "That was a small earthquake." I thought to myself. Wait a minute California is on a major fault line. If that was a small one I don't want to be here for a big one. (Especially not livin in a major populated area.) So, eventually I left California.

At another time I lived in NYC, Manhattan. At a certain point I decided that NYC, because of how densely populated it is, would not be the best place for me to live if an emergancy were to happen. While living there I got to see a small taste of them when the 2003 Northeast blackout took place. I saw the writing on the wall and I left there and moved here to Israel in 2007. After I left, I got to see that I made the right decision when Hurricane Sandy hit, when Corona hit, Hurricane Ida, the 2015 earthquake. All of the places I had previously lived were not the types of places that I "personally" would want to experience those events. I.e. I saw the writing on the wall and knew when I had to get to better ground.

Okay, I've seen a similar answer from a Christian on another internet forum, however, I'm just wondering if Hasheem has a sense of humor. Because I just looked up information as to why California is so desirable and so livable, and found this:

2. The Wonderful Weather
From northern California to the southern part of the state, the landscape transforms from high mountains and redwood forests to the foggy, temperate San Francisco Bay, to the desert climate of Los Angeles. This variety makes California a perfect fit for outdoorsy types, as the beautiful weather makes it hard to stay inside.

4. The Food Scene
It comes as no surprise that California often tops foodie-favorite state lists. California has a massive agricultural economy that produces half of all the fruits, nuts and vegetables grown in the U.S.

click here: 8 Reasons to Move to California - Livability

But yet, California has all these fault lines underneath them. Fault lines that low tech and primitive humans who moved there could know nothing about.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Meat, Honey, and Corn Porridge? lol @Ehav4Ever, I don't mean to laugh

Nothing wrong with that. It is very informative in a funny and cute way. There is an interview with a guy who lived with this group for a while. He stated that there were things that when these questions were asked the people didn't really understand the question because the idea couldn't really be translated for their reality.

This video may also help, but excuse the language they use sometimes. I put it as a link instead of embedding because of the type of language used. I think the guy speaking has a perspective on what he experienced from living with

but I thought that you had said in another post that Hashem had wanted us to progress in advanced technology so that we can better help with the woes of this planet and perhaps even travel the star in case we need to.

I don't remember writing that Hashem "had wanted us to progress in advanced technology." I would word it this way, "Hashem created humanity with the possibility to advance in a way that is for the benefit for humanity in line with he reality that Hashem created."

Besides, "advanced technology" is a subjective thing. A lunar landing in one culture may be due to advanced technology. In another culture a method of building from natural materials is advanced technology. Yet, in another culture bows, arrows, and slings that reliably help them catch food is advanced technology. In my culture, what helps us keep the mitzvoth of the Torah correctly is advanced technology.

Also, I may have also asked you this (and I can't remember): if Hashem actually wanted humans to remain primitive and low tech... and I think that you said something like no he didn't. But let me watch the other two videos.

Our perspective is that all advancments that are possible for humanity can be used for the good for all of humanity and the planet. Yet, as with anything it has to be managed properly with a real concern for the affects/consequences. Further, advancement is a subjective thing that can easily be different for every culture on the planet. It is not for us Torath Mosheh Jews to determine for the world how to advance, YET all advancement has affects on people and the environment that must be considered. That is a part of the perspective that is "built into the system" which people can come to terms with or ignore.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Okay, I've seen a similar answer from a Christian on another internet forum, however, I'm just wondering if Hasheem has a sense of humor. Because I just looked up information as to why California is so desirable and so livable, and found this:

The Torath Mosheh answer is no. Hashem created the ability for humans to have a sense a humor. Hashem obviously understands everything that Hashem created in detail. Better than we do, due to the fact that Hashem is the source of such an ability to happen/develop and we are constantly learning about things like this and how they work within us.

Yet, according to Torath Mosheh Hashem is not human in any way. Hashem is also not a part of the reality, or subject to the reality, that Hashem created. Thus, we cannot place emotions on Hashem outside of what we feel we experience from the reality that we exist in and the perspective that Israeli prophets had from what they experienced in prophecy.

 

[David Davidovich]

Not a problem. It is not a rush.

Sorry, but I couldn't bring myself to watch the third video because... you know... the boredom factor. Therefore, if you would like to tell me the point of that video, please feel free to do that. However, I really don't want to waste 19 minutes of my life that I won't get back.

 

[David Davidovich]

The relevance is that they had a major setback due to the weather that destroyed a major peice of work they that they. As they stated, it brought them down a bit, but they are positive about it and allow the challenge to make them stronger. Their outlook is similar to others who live naturally knowing that the natural world, as it is is survivable, and all it takes is the right perspective.

Sorry, but I still don't get it.... I don't see how that answers my question in post#61.

 

[David Davidovich]

Nothing wrong with that. It is very informative in a funny and cute way. There is an interview with a guy who lived with this group for a while. He stated that there were things that when these questions were asked the people didn't really understand the question because the idea couldn't really be translated for their reality.

Yep. Clear as mud.

This video may also help, but excuse the language they use sometimes. I put it as a link instead of embedding because of the type of language used. I think the guy speaking has a perspective on what he experienced from living with

Sorry, but I really don't want to spend 18 minutes on a video in order to get my question answered.

I don't remember writing that Hashem "had wanted us to progress in advanced technology." I would word it this way, "Hashem created humanity with the possibility to advance in a way that is for the benefit for humanity in line with he reality that Hashem created."

Hmmm. That kind of sounds like the same thing to me. But anyway, I really don't see why Hasheem would have given humankind this potentially grand intelligence if he didn't want humankind to use it. Also, that kind of seems to translate to me that Hasheem really didn't want us to be this intellectually advanced, and just wanted men to be out hunting, while women stayed home pregnant and barefoot.

Besides, "advanced technology" is a subjective thing. A lunar landing in one culture may be due to advanced technology. In another culture a method of building from natural materials is advanced technology. Yet, in another culture bows, arrows, and slings that reliably help them catch food is advanced technology. In my culture, what helps us keep the mitzvoth of the Torah correctly is advanced technology.

Well, sure, but that's beside the point of what we are talking about.

Our perspective is that all advancments that are possible for humanity can be used for the good for all of humanity and the planet. Yet, as with anything it has to be managed properly with a real concern for the affects/consequences. Further, advancement is a subjective thing that can easily be different for every culture on the planet. It is not for us Torath Mosheh Jews to determine for the world how to advance, YET all advancement has affects on people and the environment that must be considered. That is a part of the perspective that is "built into the system" which people can come to terms with or ignore.

Okay, but I still don't see how that answers my question in post#61.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Sorry, but I couldn't bring myself to watch the third video because... you know... the boredom factor. Therefore, if you would like to tell me the point of that video, please feel free to do that. However, I really don't want to waste 19 minutes of my life that I won't get back.

In short, there is a guy named Michael Reynolds who came up with a building technique called earthships using tires and other materials that thrown out and cause LOADS of environmental waste. The video explains his technique for using these "modern" materials to live naturally with the natural processes of the planet.

I.e. this is somone who showing that humans can 100% be modern and interact with the natural world in a less destructive manner and survive. Everyone doesn't have to go back to exactly how things were thousands of years ago. Not everyone back then managed their resources correctly. It is a matter of managing the planet's resources correctly.

Thus, that is advancement.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Sorry, but I really don't want to spend 18 minutes on a video in order to get my question answered.

Not a problem, I completely understand. I normally listen to a lot of stuff from around the world while I am working or cleaning, in between studying Torah.

Hmmm. That kind of sounds like the same thing to me. But anyway, I really don't see why Hashem would have given humankind this potentially grand intelligence if he didn't want humankind to use it.

You have to remember that intelligence is a subjective thing. There are people who use their grand intelligence to live in harmony with the natural world, which can mean a lot of different things to different cultures. Hunter gathers in many ways are more intelligent than the average person who doesn't know how to survive w/o the internet or a grocery store. That doesn't mean that hunter gatherer lifestyle is the only way to successfully live in the natural world w/o destroying it or humanity.

Yet, there are some people who use their grand intelligence to do destructive things. For example, using nuclear energy to power a city vs. using nuclear power to create a bomb that can destroy a city. Both take grand intelligence to create but one is used for the benefit while the other is destructive on a level that potential may outway its supposed benefit.

By like token, there is a lot grand intelligence that goes into making plastic. Yet, to make plastic that can't be recycled and doesn't naturally break down for a long time on mass scale and then take that plastic and dump it in the oceans is a misuse of said grand intelligence.

Hashem, gives humans the ability to choose to use said grand intelligence properly or to choose to not use it properly. Their consquences on either side. If the majority of humanity is okay with the misue of said grand intelligence then humanity will have to accept the consequences that come along with that.

Also, that kind of seems to translate to me that Hasheem really didn't want us to be this intellectually advanced, and just wanted men to be out hunting, while women stayed home pregnant and barefoot.

No I never said that. In fact, the 19 minute video shows that this is not the case. Also, I gave you an example of people who live in the natural world, survive, and are happy in all of the struggles they have to do so. Yet, you have people who have less struggel than said people and complain about the world - i.e. there is a disconnect somewhere. Also, not all people in the historically have been hunter gathers, and in virtually ALL hunter gather societies the women NEVER at home pregnant and barefootd. The men were doing the hunting the women were doing the gathering and building. I.e. everyone has a job to do and there is no such as the ability to be weak.

The Joe Rogan interview I gave the link for, the guy from Vice news talked about that. He said that the men who were hunting sent him back to work with the women since he couldn't keep up with them. Yet, the women sent him to be with the kids because he couldn't keep up with the work the women were doing.

Again, as I mentioned before there is a correct way to use a tool and there is an incorrect way. That is true in all socieities throughout history.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Okay, but I still don't see how that answers my question in post#61.

Actually it does. The reason is because flooding is a natural process. Just because it floods at certain intervals doesn't mean it is a disaster. That is a subjective perspective. There are cultures around the world that see flooding as a natural process that has to be understand, anticipated, and dealt with when it comes. Draughts can happen. That is a natural process that has existed throughout this planet's history. It is only a disaster if someone doesn't use their grand intelligence to manage their food and water supply correctly during lean years.

Something doesn't have to be considered a disaster if it is a part of how things work. Especially, if the reaction is for people to pull together and use their grand intelligence to survive.

There are some sitautions where events take place on the planet because some humans have been misusing their "grand intelligence." Global warming is considered to be one of these. That same intelligence could be used to do a number of other things that don't cause the planet to warm up in the way it is being shown to be doing.