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Featured Too honest?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Seeker of White Light, Jan 14, 2022.

  1. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    Oh. i forgot to mention how to do it. Before you tell the person what you think may be a bit hard for them, look for something positive to say. Commend them on something good about them. Or tell them something good about your feelings toward them.
    For example, that you care about them, and you want to share something that you think might help them.
     
  2. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    @Seeker of White Light have you changed your user name from ConsciousThought?
    I always associate your avatar with him, and I was trying to @Conscious... and came up empty.
    It's only then I realized you are Seeker of White Light.
    Where did ConsciousThought go?
     
  3. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    My favorite...


     
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  4. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Veteran Member

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    Yes you are correct:) i am the same as Conscious thoughts:)

    Conscious thoughts thanged over time, and was no longer who I felt like in my search for God. When I asked the univers who I was becoming the name seeker of White light appeared :)
     
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  5. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    Honesty is the best policy. Very rarely do you have to lie, and not because of someone's feelings.
     
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  6. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Telling a lie in and of itself isn't wrong, it's all dependent upon the intent. It's not wrong to tell your wife that you like the new hairstyle that she clearly loves, even if you don't. Her feelings are far more important than you always telling the absolute truth. It's not wrong to tell your children that Daddy losing his job isn't going to be a problem, because those aren't the kind of concerns little kids should have to worry about.

    A 'little white lie' becomes an issue when it could have possible negative consequences. For instance if your boyfriend sings you a song and tells you he plans to sing it on his audition for a national televised singing competition, it wouldn't be okay to tell him that his singing was great when it was awful just to spare his feelings if it meant he would end up embarrassing himself in front of millions of TV viewers.
     
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  7. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    I think that depends on the integrity of the individuals involved, because two liars certainly would not have a problem lying to each other, but a person who has standards by which they stand by, certainly, if they found their husband to lie about even small things, then they question their husband's integrity. They don't trust him, and cannot vouch for him, where truth is concerned.
    At least, that's my experience. Maybe because I don't spend much time around liars... or, I meet people who have a measure of integrity.
     
  8. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Sometimes we are thrown into situations like this to learn wisdom. How to exercise truthfulness yet not hurt another person? Also everyone has good in them.

    Firstly discarding truthfulness is not really an option.

    1. Truthfulness is the foundation of all human virtues. Without truthfulness progress and success, in all the worlds of God, are impossible for any soul. When this holy attribute is established in man, all the divine qualities will also be acquired.


    2. an enlightened man of wisdom should primarily speak with words as mild as milk

    (Baha’u’llah)



    3. If a man has ten good qualities and one bad one, to look at the ten and forget the one; and if a man has ten bad qualities and one good one, to look at the one and forget the ten.

    ‘Abdu’l-Bahá
     
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  9. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    I guess I don't really see the 'integrity' and making your wife feel bad about a hairstyle she loves or causing your children unnecessary worry. What are you gaining, other than to bolster your own pride in how completely honest you always are?

    From my experience in most relationships it's rare for people to always want 100% honesty. The wife who asks her husband what he thinks of the new hair cut she got that she loves doesn't want to hear him say that he thinks it makes her look silly, even if that's the honest truth. Her hair has already been cut and doing so has made her feel good about herself. She isn't likely to thank him for his honesty, but rather wonder how he could be so insensitive when it was obvious how much she liked it and how good it made her feel about herself. There's more than one new husband who has learned this lesson the hard way.

    The child who asks her parents if everything is going to be okay when she learns Daddy lost his job doesn't need to be told the truth, that everything is currently in turmoil and they really have no idea if things will work out. Giving a little girl something to worry about that they have absolutely no control over accomplishes nothing positive. That little girl needs to hear that there's nothing she needs to worry about and that Mommy and Daddy will find a way to deal with it. Children have plenty of children problems to handle, they don't need to be saddled with adult problems as well.

    The world is far too many shades of grey to declare that telling the absolute truth is always the best policy. There are what seem to me to be obvious exceptions.
     
  10. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    Well if one practices lying, and becomes a habitual liar. So that it becomes somewhat second nature - natural, is it surprising they don't see where they lack integrity?

    People who find out later that they were lied to by one they trust, usually lose respect for that person.
    You may not see that immediately, but it becomes evident, at some point.
     
    #30 nPeace, Jan 14, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
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  11. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    @QuestioningMind two people who don't trust each other, live together, but they are not together. They can both play the same game, so no big deal
    Hence why there is so much unfaithfulness in relationships.
     
  12. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Comprehending that when someone you're in a relationship with asks you a question that they don't always want you to give them a 100% honest answer is a far cry from becoming a habitual liar. I'd dare say that aside from professional relationships there are very few personal relationships in which the participants genuinely want 100% honesty all of the time.

    Any conscientious spouse knows that when a wife proudly displays a new hair cut or a husband proudly displays the new shelving unit he built that what they want isn't always 100% honesty. What each of them has done has clearly made them feel good about themselves and what they want is for their mate to help them share in that good feeling. If the spouse is 100% honest and says he thinks the haircut is a bit silly or she points out all the flaws in the bookshelf and the ways it could have been made better, the one who was seeking the others approval is far more likely to be resentful that their mate wasn't perceptive enough to recognize what they needed than to thank them for their honesty. The wife is stuck with the new haircut until her hairs grows out, it benefits absolutely no one for her to know that her husband thinks she looks a bit silly until it finally does. The husband is most likely far more aware of the shelving unit's flaws and how it could have been more elaborate than his wife is. He didn't show it to her for her to point that out to him, he showed it to her in hopes she'd praise what he'd accomplished so he'd be inspired to try gain, fixing the flaws and making it more elaborate the next time. That's the expectation of the relationship, that the people in the relationship can recognize when the other is in need of complete honesty and when they are seeking something else.

    The guy who's finally worked up the nerve to ask out a pretty girl he really likes doesn't want 100% honesty when he asks his best bud if he thinks he has a chance. The guy already knows that there's a good chance he'd going to get shot down when he asks. He's not asking his best bud so he can hear, "You know dude, chances are good she's going to shoot you down?" What the guy desperately needs is for his best bud to say, "Go for it, you're a great guy and it'll be her loss if she turns you down," in order to bolster his confidence so he doesn't chicken out. The best bud who encourages him to chicken out by telling him what a slim chance he has isn't really much of a best bud. This guy isn't going to thank him for being so honest, he's going to resent the fact that he couldn't be supportive.

    The child who's heard things about Daddy losing his job and asks if everything is going to be okay doesn't want to hear the truth, that Mommy and Daddy are worried that Daddy won't be able to find another job or what would happen if Mommy were to lose her job too, and that if they can't pay the mortgage how they might get kicked out of the house. That child needs to hear that Daddy's job loss would just be temporary and that there was nothing that she needed to worry about, because these are adult problems and she could rest easy knowing that the adults would deal with them. I've met plenty of people who were grateful that their parents weren't always 100% honest about issues they were dealing with and shielded them from the problems, because it allowed them to have basically carefree childhoods. I've also met a couple who resent their parents for not telling a few little white lies about their worries and concerns, because it burdened them throughout their childhood with worries about adult problems over which they had absolutely no control.

    In my opinion the vast majority of personal relationships that are successful and lasting are based on the trust that the participants won't always be 100% truthful about everything.
     
  13. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    In order for most relationships to work the participants must trust that the other won't always be 100% honest about everything. They have to trust that their partner knows when they need them to be 100% honest and when they need them to be simply supportive. People who insist on being brutally honest about everything usually tend to end up with very few successful relationships.
     
  14. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    @QuestioningMind, it's okay, I am aware that there are two different worlds... so to speak, on this earth. ;) We all choose one to live in. Yours is not mine, and certainly, mine isn't yours. :)
     
  15. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but I seriously doubt that you live in a world where you are always 100% honest about everything. If you honestly think that you do, I suspect you're deluding yourself. Unless you've never had a successful personal relationship, I don't see how that's possible. Just read what I wrote in post #32 for examples.
     
  16. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Choose whatever path causes the least harm, and use your own inherent wisdom to do that. If you do error, remember the error, and don't repeat it. Grow from mistakes.
     
  17. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    Sorry for yourself?
    Yes. I think you should be.
    Integrity - the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.
    Don't make the mistake of thinking that your world is the only one that exists. :)
    Your examples are the ones you know of, and feel proud of, because you love your world, but there are thousands of examples that show the opposite, and wash those into the sewer.
    Well. They are already there anyway.
    Wwould you like me to relate some for you, or would they only make you feel uncomfortable, as though you need to defend your position, by trying to put everyone in your boat?

    Integrity in this world, like every other virtue - love, natural affection, etc. is like a leaf on the ocean.
    So it's understandable many don't think it exists.
    I mean, look around. :)

    ...and no. Everyone is not like you. People do make mistakes. We all do. However, we all don't deliberately be dishonest, and say everything is okay with that, and try to justify it with our own preferences.
    That's why we invite people to accept the invitation to know God.
    It's him that makes us better than we ever can be.
    Barring that, we stay how ewe are, and feel good about it... not knowing how much we are really missing out. :)
     
  18. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    @Seeker of White Light a few scriptures came to mind.
    Not everyone appreciates the wisdom of these texts, but millions have experienced their superior value.
    (Proverbs 27:6) . . .The wounds inflicted by a friend are faithful, But an enemy’s kisses are plentiful.
    Some people prefer kisses from one who does not really love them, rather than the correction of a truly faithful friend.
    I think the former shows a lack of self respect... I prefer the latter, because it only makes me better.
    I don't know what you think about that.
    (Proverbs 27:5) Open reproof is better than concealed love.

    (Psalm 141:5) Should the righteous one strike me, it would be an act of loyal love; Should he reprove me, it would be like oil on my head, Which my head would never refuse. My prayer will continue even during their calamities.

    David knew this well, because he was humble.
    I think that's it. Humility. Pride makes us despise what we would rather not hear.
    Hence why we should not hold back,
    Proud people are stubborn, and like a mule, they can hurt themselves.
    It's better to help... I think.
     
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  19. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    What a bunch of pathetic drivel. I provided you with several solid everyday examples of how always being 100% honest about everything isn't always the best course of action in a relationship, but instead of addressing them in a mature fashion you choose to accuse me of having no integrity just because I dared to point out the very real negative consequences that always being brutally honest can have. Just because I contend that sometimes there are instances that 100% honesty isn't always best in some situations, you pretend as if I've declared that honesty isn't important in any situation. I can only guess that you do so in order to feed your ego and own sense of superiority.

    If honesty is REALLY so important to you then how about honestly addressing the questions I posed with specifics instead of a bunch of lazy platitudes. Like is it ALWAYS wrong to shield young children from some brutal truths until they become emotionally mature enough to handle them? If so, why? Is it ALWAYS wrong to not be 100% brutally honest with your spouse when it's clear that what they need from you is your support and not your honesty? If so, why? Is it ALWAYS required that you be 100% honest with your friend about his chances of getting a date, even if it means he misses out on the possibility that the girl might actually like him and say yes? If so, why?

    Instead of responding with a bunch of smiley faces and things that make you feel superior to the rest of us who have to live in our 'alternate' world, how about genuinely engaging in an honest conversation? If you have any real integrity, I suspect that you will. If you continue to pretend like my arguments are some sort of godless excuse for immorality we'll know that you actually don't.
     
  20. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    A real scenario. It happens.
    Your wife loves her hair-style, but you think it is "a bit off".
    You would rather not tell her the truth because you don't want to "make her feel bad". So you lie.
    Later, your wife feels terribly embarrassed because she learned from a friend, that some in the office were "talking behind her back" about her "awful" hairstyle.
    Her friend gave her a truthful answer.

    Should you not be your wife's best friend?
    If your wife is selfish, she will come home and tell you all about her terrible day, and how her friend "dissed her hairstyle, because they are all jealous."
    If she is not all about self, and trying to boost her self esteem, she would not appreciate that you were not honest with her, and save her that embarrassment.

    It's possible to lift one up, who has a low self esteem, without feeling the need to lie to them, or be dishonest.
     
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