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Featured Too honest?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Seeker of White Light, Jan 14, 2022.

  1. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    I'm not the problem... honestly.
    I was having an honest conversation.
    I don't mind you attacking me about ego. I totally understand. The evidence will speak for itself.

    Integrity however does not change to suit anyone. The definition does not change either. So we can't alter it.
    Perhaps you can show where I did not use the word correctly.

    Honesty does not mean giving every detail about everything.
    For example, one can be honest when speaking to a child about sex, but honesty does not mean going into detail about every action or aspect of sex.
    Honesty involves, speaking the truth - Not telling lies just to please someone, or avoid what we think would be bad, uncomfortable, etc.

    How we speak that truth, can make the difference, but the point is, we speak the truth. Not tell lies.

    Some people avoid telling persons something that they think the person will get offended about, but refusing to speak does not help the person, nor make the situation better. It only makes it worst, because the person does not see the need to adjust for the better.
    I personally witness that situation, and the husband wife situation is only one.

    The long and short of it, persons fail to see the consequences, but those consequences come back to bite them in the future.
    Often they don't realize why, because their pride prevents them from connecting the dots.
    If we can help people avoid that, that's a good thing... I think.
     
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  2. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Honesty does not mean giving every detail about everything.

    If you are 100% honest you do! I've continually said that there are instances when being 100% honest is not the right response and you replied by questioning my integrity. You could have agreed that 100% honesty is NOT always the right policy half a dozen posts ago and this conversation would have been over. Instead you keep telling me that I live in a world with no true integrity and need to find a path to god. How dishonest of you.
     
  3. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Veteran Member

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    Because people have different beliefs and understanding you will experience that people are not always agreeing with you.
    Some people want to become 100% honest and truthful.
    Others see it as impossible. That is just how life is.
     
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  4. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Except that the person I was talking to claimed to agree with me in their last post after spending a dozen posts telling me how wrong I am.
     
  5. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Veteran Member

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    Maybe he just gave up trying to explain
     
  6. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    Could you define honest for me please, because i did not agree with you, but since you think I did, let's see.
    Explain please, what honesty means to you.
     
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  7. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    You know, I remember saying this on the second page of this thread
    @QuestioningMind, it's okay, I am aware that there are two different worlds... so to speak, on this earth. ;) We all choose one to live in. Yours is not mine, and certainly, mine isn't yours. :)
    That's about 32 posts prior to now.
    I was willing to just leave it at each person choosing their "world", but you know...

    Anyway, I know what the problem is, and why dust started flying.
    For a believer to say that knowing God makes one a better person, is a serious offense to some Atheists - an insult, because in their mind, they are better off without God. They live a better life without him, and don't need him to be morally sound.
    So I treaded on some toes.

    The thing is, the Atheist feels free to say that the believer is ignorant to not accept science beliefs and evolution theory, etc.
    They don't seem to think the believer has the right to speak their mind. They take offense at what they say.

    I find the believer's attitude is quite different.
    They can accept that they are ignorant from the Atheist's point of view, and they just say, "Okay. You make your choice. i have made mine." ..and leave.

    Not so the Atheist. They feel they must prove their point, and then they blame the believer for responding.
    That's what I see. Yes ego. Pride, but they don't see it in themselves.
    The other person is the one.
     
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  8. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Veteran Member

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    I have similar understanding of what you explain here.
    Any believer who dere to say what the believe are shut down due to "it is only your belief, you can not prove it" kind of coment :)
    Well it is a personal belief....why does that scare so many Atheists? Just to make it clear to other reading this, not all Atheists are narrow minded, some do try to understand faith believers.
     
  9. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Well-Known Member

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    Poet, William Blake said "A truth that's told with bad intent beats all the lies you can invent." Blake asserted that lies could be well-intentioned, possibly even helpful.

    Blarney (Irish complements) are considered polite. Blarney flatters, whereas baloney is merely false. The Irish say that they are "kissing the blarney stone" when they flatter.

    Often people lie about the bible to make people feel better. For example, if a little girl's puppy dies, they tell the little girl that the puppy will be in heaven, eating good food, and happy. The truth is that the bible considers dogs as filthy and could not enter heaven.

    It was irritating when people insisted that I was going to be okay, when I was suffering from deadly diseases (cancer, heart, kidney, etc). I wanted honesty.

    Convincing little kids that there is a Santa Claus is normal. It gives them a thrill to get presents, and know that there is some kind person (or entity) that gives presents and awards good behavior (that he constantly monitors).

    Could it be that religion started as a myth like Santa Claus?
     
  10. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Veteran Member

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    Personally I believe religion is a result of people realized that our physical world is not the only existence and heaven us a better place.

    Other people may disagree with me of course
     
  11. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    Yes. As though they don't have a belief, but moreover, as though that belief is somehow absolute.
     
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  12. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    I appreciate that.
    Some people think that everyone is afraid of the truth, so that they feel better being told what "sounds good".

    I think it's a reflection of their own deep seated feelings of fear, which of course they may not realize, because it may be due to emotional "trauma" in earlier stages of life.

    It has everything to do with one's outlook on life. It's possible to be positive in the face of turmoil. When one feels they need to mask it with lies, that tells quite a lot... imo.

    Some persons have been so affected by distrust through dishonesty, that they go to the other extreme in not hiding the truth due to what they experienced.
     
  13. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Actually he spent most of his time telling me I have no integrity... didn't do much explaining at all.
     
  14. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    I've continuedly stated that when it comes to a child 100% honesty is sometimes not the best choice. You tell them what they're ready to deal with, but you shouldn't be 100% honest, because they may not have the emotional maturity to handle it.

    YOU just wrote:
    Honesty does not mean giving every detail about everything.
    For example, one can be honest when speaking to a child about sex, but honesty does not mean going into detail about every action or aspect of sex.

    You used different words, but you AGREE that you shouldn't always be 100% honest... that there are aspect of say sex for instance that you should withhold from them because they're not old enough to comprehend.

    Sure sounds like you finally decided to agree with me.
     
  15. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    Clearly, your concept of honesty differs to mine, so no, I do not agree with you, and said as much.
    You may be talking about giving information, but that's not honesty. Because the boss tells us to clean the bathroom, and gave us detergent to do it doesn't mean he is being honest.
    I think you confuse giving information with honesty, but both are not the same.
    Perhaps that's why you don't understand what integrity involves either.
    Feel free to look over the words here.
    def1.jpg
    def2.jpg

    So no. I do not agree with you about honesty.
    We might agree about information to a slight degree.
    Because I refuse to give you information, that does not make me dishonest in any way shape form or fashion. Nor am I not being 100% honest.

    Because a teacher has not taught her students advanced Math before basic, does not make her dishonest, or not 100% honest.

    If you disagree, then I think you are under obligation to define your terms in a clear manner.
    You are confusing two different things, and there is a reason why, of course.
    Insisting that you are right just because you want to be, reveals much.
     
    #95 nPeace, Jan 15, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
  16. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

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    The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
     
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  17. Vee

    Vee Well-Known Member
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    I tried to answer that question myself a few times, and after having experienced the result of being too honest I came up with a strategy. I ask myself first if the person can handle my honesty. If the answer is yes I'll go on and say what I think. If the answer is no I say nothing. I won't lie to make someone happy though. That's against my principles.
     
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  18. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Veteran Member

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    Its a wise way to live and think.
     
    #98 Seeker of White Light, Jan 16, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
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  19. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    100% honesty means not holding anything back. If I only tell you 90% of the facts, I have not been 100% honest. It's not that hard a concept to grasp. And not being 100% honest is NOT the same as being DISHONEST. I've never once made such a claim.
     
  20. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Off course.
    I always immediately think of the cliché nazi example... Where the gestapo comes to your door asking you if you know where jews are hiding. Suppose you know where and that you also know that telling the truth is the equivalent of signing their death sentence. Would you tell the truth? I sure wouldn't.

    Then there's the different gradations of honesty.
    There's saying things that are plainly false. There's then also simply not saying certain things (hiding stuff vs lying). Then there's telling the truth but embellishing a bit.

    Like when my wife cooks and burns the meat a little... When she asks how it is, I'm not saying "it's burned a little". Instead, I say "It's well done and crispy". :)

    Then there are other times where the situation simply calls for the truth - no matter how it makes people feel, because more important things are at stake or the context calls for fact over emotions.

    Like in a courtroom or when receiving your medical diagnose of something you had checked out.

    So I'ld say how honesty one is, and what kind of honest one is, or should be, is heavily dependend on the situation and context. There's a time and place for everything. For the truth, for embellishments and yes - even for lies.
     
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