To wish or not to wish

[agorman]

I noticed most Nichiren practitioners recite the daimoku to fulfill wishes or realize goals. But in the Lotus Sutra itself it's written that the Buddha said not to teach the Sutra to people attached to material desires:

"Never teach this sutra
To those who are arrogant and lazy,
Or to those who hold
False views about the self.
Never teach it to those people
Of superficial awareness,
Who are deeply attached
To the desires of the five senses,
Since even if they heard it,
They would not understand."

http://www.bdk.or.jp/pdf/bdk/digitaldl/dBET_T0262_LotusSutra_2007.pdf (page 89 of the pdf)

So, something's wrong. Is there a Nichiren practitioner here who could clarify this?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I noticed most Nichiren practitioners recite the daimoku to fulfill wishes or realize goals. But in the Lotus Sutra itself it's written that the Buddha said not to teach the Sutra to people attached to material desires:

"Never teach this sutra
To those who are arrogant and lazy,
Or to those who hold
False views about the self.
Never teach it to those people
Of superficial awareness,
Who are deeply attached
To the desires of the five senses,
Since even if they heard it,
They would not understand."

http://www.bdk.or.jp/pdf/bdk/digitaldl/dBET_T0262_LotusSutra_2007.pdf (page 89 of the pdf)

So, something's wrong. Is there a Nichiren practitioner here who could clarify this?

Yes. Im a practitioner. Hold on to that thought. I have yet to meet someone even remotely interested in Nichiren Buddhism here.


To be continued...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I noticed most Nichiren practitioners recite the daimoku to fulfill wishes or realize goals. But in the Lotus Sutra itself it's written that the Buddha said not to teach the Sutra to people attached to material desires:

"Never teach this sutra
To those who are arrogant and lazy,
Or to those who hold
False views about the self.
Never teach it to those people
Of superficial awareness,
Who are deeply attached
To the desires of the five senses,
Since even if they heard it,
They would not understand."

http://www.bdk.or.jp/pdf/bdk/digitaldl/dBET_T0262_LotusSutra_2007.pdf (page 89 of the pdf)

So, something's wrong. Is there a Nichiren practitioner here who could clarify this?

There are more than one schools of Nichiren Buddhism. I am not "part of" any of the schools; but, I practice with SGI.

Nichiren Shu: http://www.nichiren-shu.org

This, in my opinion, is the closest you'll get to Nichiren Buddhism. Although not in my area, they do focus on the Buddha's teachings as well as Nichiren's. The Buddha says we must write, recite, and preach the sutra wherever we can. When we do, as Bodhisattvas soon to be enlightened, we will become Buddhas just as the other Buddhas and himself.

Nichiren says that by chanting the title of the Lotus Sutra brings out the Buddhanature in us (we are chanting "I devote myself to the mystic Dharma) to put it simply. So, that's what we do, is chant to be one with the Law. Just as Zen and other schools; just different method.

Nichiren Shoshu: http://www.nst.org

Nichiren Shoshu takes a somewhat different route when I had practiced with them. They believe the Dharma has power. So when they chant, they believe they get power from the scroll. They also believe, unlike the other two, that Nichiren Shonin is Dia-shonin and the reincarnation of Shakyamuni himself. They worship Nichiren rather than the Dharma. It's extensive.

Soka Gokai International (SGI): www.sgi.org

SGI is a lay organization and very political in nature. They are the only ones that focus on material things in connection to the Dharma.

Here are some good things about them:

They believe that everyone is a Buddha and has a potential to bring out the Dharma (they call it something else) in each person. They believe that unity and trust among its members is a benefit.

In relation to the Lotus Sutra itself, they believe they too are Bodhisattvas of the Earth and evangalize the Buddha's teachings (as so the Buddha said) to "save others" who are attached to desires, lust, etc.

On the other hand,

I can see where you're coming from about materialistic thinking. They do chant for jobs, new cars, etc. How it was explained to me yesterday, actually, was like prayer in a Church. Why not chant for things we want? They don't see it as attachment but more of gaining things that are a part of them. In other words, they don't separate themselves from their external needs.

The Dharma they get isn't from the Sutras directly it's from Soka Ikeda (I don't use the Dai). He is the head of the organization, very influential guy, wrote hundreds of books about Buddhism and SGI, and that's the source or attachment of their practice.

I would not write them off as if no one has read the Lotus Sutra, it's just their focus is not on what most if not all other Buddhist sects--even Shoshu focuses on.



Your OP is geared towards SGI Buddhism not Nichiren Buddhism. Nichiren Shonin never said to chant for things. He told us that the Lotus Sutra is paramount. He also said whatever chapter we put our trust in is just as good as any other chapter. He says "we are none other than the Buddha; the Buddha is no other than the mind". He alo says that by chanting the Daimoku (Lotus Sutra) is basically chanting the Dharma in short cut. We chant Gongyo (don't forget that) and Nichiren Shu chants more and says their vows to the three jewels and eight fold etc. It's basically reminding us we are not separate from the Law of Nature (nature of life not nature as in trees and skies) of life. The Buddhadharma.

In short, Nichiren Buddhism is not chanting for things and sensual desires. In the Gosho (Nichiren Writings) and the Lotus Sutra talks against that. It's chanting the Lotus Sutra, living the Dharma, and reciting and studying and having faith (trust) in what chapter/s we connect to.


I hope I answered your questions.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@agorman

Here is an organizational chart that talk about the different basic teachings of all sects.
http://www.nichirenbuddhist.org/Lea...sm/organizational_differentiation_chart3.html

If you're interested in this Buddhism, don't see it as throwing away the Buddha's teachings. Nichiren Shonin is a Boddhisattva just as the rest of us. He just offers a different way of "meditation" to connect with the Law. Nichiren Shu does meditation and other basic Buddhist teachings you may be famliar with.

 

[agorman]

Thanks for all that information, you're very kind, but I still don't get something. Why, if we're supposed to get rid of all mundane wishes, do bodhisattvas like Avalokiteshvara or the Medicine Buddha help Mankind by healing some people who meditate with their mantras? After all, being healthy is a material desire.

Anyway, I find Buddhism more confusing and contradictory everyday and the more I read, the less I understand. Maybe I'm not smart enough for Buddhism and I should choose a simpler path. I don't know... Satanism, maybe the Old Nick would fulfill my wishes, LOL. Or just trying to recourse to the power of my Higher Self somehow. I felt Buddhism was recommended to me by Norse gods Tyr and Freyja, but then, I may be wrong in my UPG, who knows.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thanks for all that information, you're very kind, but I still don't get something. Why, if we're supposed to get rid of all mundane wishes, do bodhisattvas like Avalokiteshvara or the Medicine Buddha help Mankind by healing some people who meditate with their mantras? After all, being healthy is a material desire.

Anyway, I find Buddhism more confusing and contradictory everyday and the more I read, the less I understand. Maybe I'm not smart enough for Buddhism and I should choose a simpler path. I don't know... Satanism, maybe the Old Nick would fulfill my wishes, LOL. Or just trying to recourse to the power of my Higher Self somehow. I felt Buddhism was recommended to me by Norse gods Tyr and Freyja, but then, I may be wrong in my UPG, who knows.

Whichever path you are most comfortable with is which I'd suggest you go for. I find Buddhism very complex but it is so simple for me to understand as if it is not a religion or anything but just reality. It's not something I personally converted to with the moral just the discipline and practice.

With health being a material desire, that is a catch-22. In Buddhism, that I know of, there isn't such thing as "spirit"; so, the body is a part of us and we are a part of it. More specifically, the mind. In order to have peace, wisdom, insight, awareness, etc our mind must be healthy and to have that the irogance, greed, lust of the mind and body will follow. It all goes together.

So, when we pray, chant, or meditate for better health, in my personal view, I am not chanting for these things but just the actual practice makes these things happen or not happen. It's a balance. It's not asking for something and it isn't expecting anything in return. Perfect equilibrium.

The only thing I can think of why both Boddhisattvas heal people who meditate is maybe they thought that they were mediating for or on the wrong reasons. Maybe the purpose of healing is not physical health but mental health that affects all aspects of the body--which makes one become a Buddha. A boddhisattva helps others to become enlightened before him or herself. So, maybe the Boddhisattvas say something missing in those who meditate.

In my opinion, meditation alone doesn't cut it. There are many suttas that teaching what monks should and could do to attain Buddhahood. Most of the ones I read so far a layman can do. (Most is not even one percent of all the suttas). However, that is one of the biggest things the Buddha and all the Buddhas and Boddhisattvas did emphasis is meditation.

Maybe those to Boddhisattvas was not meditating correctly; I don't know. There are native Buddhists on this forum that could probably answer that for you. Some Hindu teachings overlap Buddhism but the names of the people and their titles are different. They can give some insight if appropriate as well.

 

[agorman]

BTW, there are more wish-fulfilling mantras:

OM PADMO USHNISHA VIMALE HUM PHAT
http://buddhaonthewall.virtualvinodh.com/2009/02/17/chintamani-chakra-avalokitesvara/

 

[agorman]

Should I conclude then, that the point of view of the SGI is that as you fullfill your desires through the recitation of the Nam myoho renge kyo, you come to realize of your true nature exactly because you notice that you have the capability of fulfilling your wishes?