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To The Jesus Myth Theorist

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
I should call you conspiracy theorist because that;s what you are, your little theory that Jesus never existed is just that...a conspiracy theory ungrounded in reality just like those who deny the Holocaust ever happened.

Your theory has no scholarship, no science and no backing to it whatsoever, yet you persist like people who deny that the earth is round to perpetuate your nonsense.

Zeitgeist I would like to inform you was only a movie and a rather bad movie filled with conspiracy theories and misinformation. So I would like you to put up or shut up. Show us your scholarship please.

And what other conspiracy theories do you guys believe in? Do you think that 9/11 actually was organised by aliens from the planet Nibiru on the orders of the reptilian Queen Elizabeth and her pet Bigfoot?
 

suzimcq

suzi
I don't know a lot of people, who really care to know, that would deny that Jesus was a real person, or that he had a following of people that believed he was the Messiah. It is documented, there is historical evidence. now there are many people that don't believe that he was the son of god, but that is a different matter. anyone who researches history would know that the existence of the man was as documented as many other historical figures.

now the aliens organizing 9/11...that one might be true... :p
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
No there isn't. However, impying that they are no different that Holocaust deniers or UFO abductees with pet bigfeet is a bit harsh don't you think? It hardly invites civil discussion and comparison of ideas.
The denial of the evidence of the historicity of Jesus is just that...an ungrounded conspiracy theory
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Really? People are no longer allowed to question religion? Rather totalitarian of you don't you think? :sarcastic
This isn't a question of religion. It's a question of history. The Jesus myth bunk isn't arguing Jesus wasn't god. That would be religious. It's arguing that there was no historical figure behind the gospels, paul, josephus, and a handful of other early testimonies.
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
The denial of the evidence of the historicity of Jesus is just that...an ungrounded conspiracy theory

No it isn't. It is legitimate doubt in a religion. Personally, I believe there was a man named Jesus but lets consider for a moment. What are the historical references of Jesus outside of the bible.

Ancient Evidence for Jesus from Non-Christian Sources

I'm not going to list them all here so check the source above. The thing is, none of this evidence is a slam dunk, it's all circumstantial. Most of the historical references were writen long after his death and are mostly hearsay rather than first hand accounts. So to say that Jesus absolutely existed without any doubt is wrong. And to say that contesting the historicity of Jesus is an ungrounded conspiracy theory is just an attempt to start a flame war.
 

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
I doubt claiming Jesus as a myth is as much a nutty thing to do as claiming the Shoah never happened. We have a lot of proof it did happen. From thousands of victims and records and photos, etc.

I think the same can be asked of anyone who says Jesus did live. Most we have as evidence is claims from contemporaries who say there was a man named Jesus with a little following. And of course the gospels. But there is no amount of proof that shows beyond doubt he lived and breathed and truly walked on water.

Claiming something, that already has very little proof of truth to not be true is much much different then claiming something that can be proven beyond doubt happened.

In other words, a person who denies the Shoah is much more a retarded fool, then a person who denies Jesus was real.
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
No it isn't. It is legitimate doubt in a religion. Personally, I believe there was a man named Jesus but lets consider for a moment. What are the historical references of Jesus outside of the bible.

Ancient Evidence for Jesus from Non-Christian Sources

I'm not going to list them all here so check the source above. The thing is, none of this evidence is a slam dunk, it's all circumstantial. Most of the historical references were writen long after his death and are mostly hearsay rather than first hand accounts. So to say that Jesus absolutely existed without any doubt is wrong. And to say that contesting the historicity of Jesus is an ungrounded conspiracy theory is just an attempt to start a flame war.

You tell me what evidence of any historical figure isn't circumstantial...go ahead
 

suzimcq

suzi
i find it an interesting argument in the first place, there are many figures in history that are only documented on paper, there are some that were only written about years later because many societies did not have written documents, and went by an oral tradition. yet there are not huge debates over whether or not these people lived. so then, it seems the only reason that Jesus is being discuses in this fashion is because some people want to discredit the religion for some reason. "why is that?" should be the question, i think.
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
I don't know a lot of people, who really care to know, that would deny that Jesus was a real person, or that he had a following of people that believed he was the Messiah. It is documented, there is historical evidence. now there are many people that don't believe that he was the son of god, but that is a different matter. anyone who researches history would know that the existence of the man was as documented as many other historical figures.

now the aliens organizing 9/11...that one might be true... :p

I personally don't believe he was the messiah or the son of God but I am not so stupid to believe some conspiracy theory that Jesus didn't exist.
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
You tell me what evidence of any historical figure isn't circumstantial...go ahead

Fair enough, but the likely hood of a historical figure actually existing is based on the amount and quality of said circumstantial evidence. There is evidence that Robin Hood was a real person too but whether he was or not is a matter of debate.

Did the city of Troy exist? There is evidence that it existed not in Turkey but in Cornwall England where a bronze age battle over tin mines took place in a location that perfectly matches the description of Homer's Troy while the location in Turkey has no physical similarities at all. So, which is the actual location of Troy? The traditionally believed location in Turkey or the newly discovered city in England? If someone believes its in England are they a part of some kind of conspiracy?

History in general is circumstantial, there is no conspiracy in questioning any of it.
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
This isn't a question of religion. It's a question of history. The Jesus myth bunk isn't arguing Jesus wasn't god. That would be religious. It's arguing that there was no historical figure behind the gospels, paul, josephus, and a handful of other early testimonies.

I agree. This is about history and not religion. So they should prove their hypothesis with the same methods historians use or shut up.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
there is a case for a mythical jesus, more so then biblical jesus being real.



I will agree that its not that strong but there are scholarships on it.


the use of the word myth is also wide and varied, one could claim jesus is a myth and they would be 100% correct in my opinion, as biblical jesus is not historical jesus.


Now I do believe there is a historical person that we are given a partial biased view to in scripture.


heres some points to consider

Christ myth theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, there is ambiguity in the meaning of the words:
Thus, there is a large variance regarding how the Gospel Jesus is a myth; for instance:
  • The Jesus character could be a pure allegoric myth to which historical details (possibly including an actual obscure 1st century teacher of the same name) were added later, forming a composite character. Some scholars contend that Christianity emerged organically from Hellenistic Judaism, drawing on perceived parallels between the early stories of Jesus and the gods of Greek, Egyptian, and other cultures (especially dying and rising deities).[5][6][7][8][9][10]
  • The Jesus character could be a myth that grew up around a historical Jesus who devised the founding tenets of his new religion.[1][11] Some scholars accept that Jesus did live in the 1st century but that the Gospel version is a composite character made of several would-be Christs and that no one particular person can be said to be the founder of Christianity,[12] while others say that the Gospel version is based on a single individual who lived around 100 BCE and who was made to seem of the 1st century CE.[13][14]
  • The Gospel account of Jesus is so full of myth and legend that determining the historical accuracy of anything reasonably close to the man described is impossible.[15]
Supporters of the various Jesus myth theories point to the lack of any known written references to Jesus before his crucifixion, the fact that almost all sources after the crucifixion are by Christians, and the relative scarcity and disputed veracity of non-Christian references to him in the 1st century.
Nearly all Bible scholars involved with historical Jesus research maintain that the existence of the New Testament Jesus can be established using documentary and other evidence, although they differ on the degree to which material about him in the New Testament should be taken at face value.[16]



Because the term "Christ Myth theory" can refer to the idea that the story of Jesus is a myth as well as the man himself being a pure allegory myth[31] there is great confusion in the literature regarding just what the term actually means. A few authors (such as John Remsburg and Dan Barker) make a distinction between the Jesus of the Gospel (Jesus of Bethlehem) and a possible Jesus of history (Jesus of Nazareth) but many authors others don't creating confusion regarding if they are talking about Jesus being a historical or philosophical myth.
Compounding matters is that the view regarding the Historicity of Jesus is a spectrum of ideas and that breaking this spectrum down into categories tends to be dependent on the author in question.
 
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