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There Is Nothing

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Functionless, Jul 3, 2009.

  1. Functionless

    Functionless Nothing

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    The gun jammed? No, actually I don't plan on it.

    A chair could easily be seen as a table, or a projectile, or firewood. It depends on the observer, and the label "chair" doesn't tell us what the chair is really, it only tells us what the chair is in relation to us. It is an inter-subjective label.

    Sure, its "worth" learning about, but why is it "worth" learning about? Is it really worth learning about? You can't really will the desire, can you?

    The illusion or reality? Or the illusion that is reality???


    Yes, the "world-as-we-know-it", hence the problem of "knowing" the "world". Do you know the world?

    Because the mind has been driven insane by stress.

    No, is it available online? I might have read excerpts at one point, but I don't pay that much attention.
     
  2. logician

    logician Well-Known Member

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    I think there are some truths that can be known, that nature can be both beatiful and dangerous, that people can be both loving and hateful, that life is unpredictable.

    Ultimate truth - who really cares?
     
  3. Kathryn

    Kathryn Most Spoiled Woman Ever

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    You're thinking too hard about everything - or, well, maybe you're not, and your view is a cop-out.

    My point is this: Seize the day. Bite into life with gusto. Find a cause or a purpose that isn't focused on your own self gratification and I can assure you that you will realize that truth exists out there.

    The truth is that you can make someone else's life better if you quit sitting around philosophizing and instead add value to YOUR life by adding value to the lives of others.

    Of course, that takes initiative, sacrifice, and a set of moral values. But I promise you that those things are within your reach.
     
  4. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Okay.

    Sure. Don't you?
     
  5. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    Sacred-Texts: Hinduism

    Pick your translation. ^_^

    There are others you can pick up at your local book store for 5 bucks. (Depending on where you live.)

    I ask because your dilemma is not dissimilar to the character Arjuna's, the character who portrays humanity in the song.
     
  6. Functionless

    Functionless Nothing

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    Oh, its Hindu? I definitely haven't read it then. The last time I took the religious test I got 100%, but I know almost nothing about it really. I've been told you have to be born a Hindu too, though I doubt that is universally true.

    No.

    Why? And why do I need a "set of moral values"? Now how can I possibly find a cause or purpose that isn't for SELF gratification? All causes are for self-gratification, even the most noble of them. That is not necessarily a good thing, but I'm afraid I'll be doing more harm than good. I'm not seeking to delude myself into thinking that I'm selfless while being very selfish. I might start out with pure intentions doing good deeds, but it will not be long before I am lead astray by all the evil in the world and of course the fear that is my own need for self gratification. I need resolve that is beyond that, beyond being a sheep, because all sheep are going to inevitably be lead to the slaughter, if not by another hand, then by their own.

    My issue is that I'll only be doing harm if I go and try to help others. Others don't want or need my help at least in this country. Everywhere there are people with the capacity to live better lives, yet they continue to behave as they are. I say let them live in their bad faith for its what they want. I'm not going to embark on a self-righteous quest for helping others by imposing my beliefs on others. That is ultimately what being "self-less" comes down to.
     
  7. ManTimeForgot

    ManTimeForgot Temporally Challenged

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    There is a very big difference between there is no meaning and truth at all and there is no meaning or truth we are able to identify. Meta-ethical moral relativism is not equivalent to morality does not exist. We might never be able to identify the exact strictures of an applicable absolute morality, but that does NOT mean that morality doesn't exist.


    If there is no meaning, no truth at all, and nothing matters, then you might as well let someone else kill you. You don't matter. Might as well let someone who cares about existing (even if it is a delusion) have all those illusionary resources that don't matter either.

    If there is no ultimate purpose or meaning and life is merely a matter of pleasure and pain, then morality exists and purpose exist in as much as they are a function of individual avoidance of pain and pleasure seeking inside of a social system (various sizes, but social systems none-the-less). As small a society as two people and social interaction norms and attitudes take shape. The dyad is the universal building block of human large-scale societies; just look at how many "rules" we have governing "proper" behavior for "normal" interaction between two people under a variety of circumstances.

    There is a very good reason for this. People react to how you act, and if they don't like how you are acting their reaction is almost universally going to be detrimental to you. No one is able to live optimally in isolation. As such rules governing social interaction are necessary and correct. That is a form of morality. So whether you like it or not unless you are advocating the metaphysical and ethical equivalent of sollipsism (a philosophical dead-end with no applicability to real life), then morality exists.

    It remains to be seen whether or not we can identify the "correct and necessary" rules for optimal social interaction, but despite whether or not we can identify them they exist.



    And no truth? So what exactly does logic show? Vampire bunny rabbits? A tautology is something which in addition to be self-evidently true must in fact always be true. So if you can find me a situation in which A=A becomes false I will happily yield to you that truth does not exist. But Truth (as in a capital T) about reality; Does it really matter if there is some ultimate purpose? Even if there is we may not be able to know it... Knowing the "mind of God" so to speak is an impossible task. And I'm not sure how it even matters even if we did know this "ultimate purpose." Would it really change how people lived their lives if we knew (for certain) that the ultimate purpose of reality was to "test the viability of ideological systems?"


    MTF
     
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  8. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    No, you don't.

    I've heard a quote (don't know who said it), which says:

    "A Hindu is a person who doesn't object to being called a Hindu."

    I think this is accurate.:yes:
     
  9. Kathryn

    Kathryn Most Spoiled Woman Ever

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    You know what - no set of philosophical ideas is worth the brain cells it occupies or the paper it's written on - it's the application of those ideas in your personal life that matters.

    So what's your application?
     
  10. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    So you are selfless by being selfish?

    How does that work?:confused:

    The way you help others is by lending a helping had for things that are practical in nature, and then don't talk about it again. Such as putting a quarter into another person's parking meeter that's expired, or giving someone some bus money if they don't have any other way of doing it. These are small, simple things that go a long way.

    And yes, they feel good. They feel great. I guarantee doing things like this feels far, far more satisfying than engaging in material pleasures.
     
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  11. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Then what do you know?
     
  12. CarlinKnew

    CarlinKnew Well-Known Member

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    I'm baffled as to why not. You say you've lost interest in everything, and nothing matters to you, so why bother?
     
  13. logician

    logician Well-Known Member

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    "It doesn't matter what you do really. Nothing really matters."

    In the universal scheme of things, probably true.
     
  14. rojse

    rojse RF Addict

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    When I say "I am looking at a chair" you know what I would be referring to in regards to the label "chair" through the use of the medium of shared language. While we both share different backgrounds and experiences, we share a common definition for the word chair - a covered base elevated with at least one leg, a raised backing for back support, and so forth.

    A chair could well be seen as a table - if I rest my plate on it, for example, the combined labels of chair and table tell you more about the situation than the tag of chair.

    The reason why I say that our combined perception of reality is worth learning about is that, should it not actually exist, says a lot about the way we think as individuals. If it does exist, it is worth studying to see how it all works.
     
  15. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    "LOST", season 5, episode 11, 18 minutes, 46 seconds.
     
  16. rojse

    rojse RF Addict

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    ... I would have to watch the first five seasons to get to that episode. And want to watch Lost in the first place.
     
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