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There Is Nothing

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Functionless, Jul 3, 2009.

  1. Functionless

    Functionless Nothing

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    There is no truth, and there is no morality. There is only the illusion of such, and this illusion occurs as a result of our hedonistic tendencies, our desire for pleasure and our fear for pain. Belief in truth and morality are the products of desire. Of course, our desire for pleasure and fear for pain, because they are illusions, are subjective and malleable, and therefore may be modified in any way. Because of this, there is ultimately no way to determine, morally, the value of one action over another action. What may be invaluable to me might be very valuable to a twisted sociopath who kills for pleasure, and I have no real moral ground to say that they should not kill. Yes, I have my own morality and the intersubjective morality which you will find in the community and in the courts, but these things aren't actually justifiable. There is only killing, being killed, and nobody to really judge it.

    As for truth.... what truth? Is truth subjective? If it is subjective, does it even exist? No, it doesn't, unless of course you are willing to deify yourself in which case it is still an illusion. Religion may only be a method of giving authenticity to our actions which are otherwise unjustifiable. Live religiously, but this religiousity is nothingness. There is no truth to hold on to and take security in, so there is no security, no safety, nothing to protect one from the inevitability and terror of death which is coming to consume you.

    For some, the illusion is good enough for them. Others just put it all out of their minds. It doesn't matter what you do really. Nothing really matters.
     
  2. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    Yes, nothing we do is going to have any effect on the grand scheme of things.

    Which is why it's really better to just think of things in terms of what's in front of us.
     
  3. Nanda

    Nanda Polyanna

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    I'm ok with that.
     
  4. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    In a very real sense, those are contradictory statements. Do illusions really exist?
     
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  5. blackout

    blackout Violet.

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    Life is what YOU make of what you find around, and in you.

    If you want to hate everything around and in you? you will.

    If you want to "moralize" everything around you? you will.

    If you want to find meaning in everything around you? you will.

    If you want to see nothing in anything around you? you will.

    You WILL what you see. And you see what you will. ;)
     
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  6. Joe_Stocks

    Joe_Stocks Back from the Dead

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    Hi Functionless,

    Are you also a solipsist? Do you believe there is an objective reality out there that we all experience?
     
  7. ben d

    ben d Being

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    Hi Functionless, it is my understanding that the concept of truth represents a fact that has been verified. A fact in turn is a concept whose truth can be proven.

    Does not your phrase,.."There is no truth to hold on to and take security in, etc.," imply a present belief that you hold to be true? IOW, if you are saying that there is no truth to hold on to, then it follows one should not have any faith in your assertion that there is no truth to hold on to. IOW, is this not an example of a paradox?

    And your phrase,.."the inevitably and terror of death that is coming to consume you.", also implies a present truth that you believe to be true, yes?
    The obviously question that arises given the definition of the concepts of 'truth' and 'fact' above is, how did you verify or prove that terror of death is a universal fact?
     
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  8. whereismynotecard

    whereismynotecard Treasure Hunter

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    You seem angry. Why don't you go do something fun and be happy?
    I hope you are just making an observation and that you aren't upset about it.
    It's okay that there is no point to life.
    It's okay that there is no grand list of rights and wrongs.
    That's the way it has always been, but you've lived this long, so who cares?
     
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  9. ChristineES

    ChristineES Tiggerism
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    Truth can be subjective: Is killing immoral? Does it depend? Is there a difference between executing a murderer and killing someone in cold blood? Part of what makes life interesting is having questions like those to ask and finding answers for them- in which there may be many answers.
     
  10. Functionless

    Functionless Nothing

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    That depends on how you define exist and illusion. The illusions themselves exist as electrical signals in your brain, but when it comes to the substance of the illusions, I don't know.

    What about when it comes to practicing death? Practicing Death-The Key to Enjoying Life by Michael E. Tymn

    Is death what we make of it, or does it play an important role in having a meaningful life? If death affects us in any way, then are things really what we make of them?

    Well, I'm not anything, and I don't necessarily believe in objectivity. There are certainly objects which exist, but how do we distinguish that from our own experience I don't know. I really don't know enough about physics either to tell if a duality is even possible.



    No, you're right. Nihilism tends to nihilate itself, making it contradictory. Terror of death is as close to universal as you're going to get though.

    I'm not angry, but I've lost interest in almost everything.

    Why does any of it matter?
     
  11. CarlinKnew

    CarlinKnew Well-Known Member

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    Why haven't you committed suicide yet?
     
  12. rojse

    rojse RF Addict

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    No arguments about morality being an illusion. Reality is a far more interesting question.

    If all of reality is an illusion, why do different people have a consensus on what they believe their illusions to be? When I say that I see a chair, why would everyone agree with me?

    Does this mean that people all experience a single illusion? And if this illusion is experienced in a communal manner, would it not be worth learning about the intricacies of the illusion?
     
  13. blackout

    blackout Violet.

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    But no truth/fact can be "proven" under EVERY(potential/possible) (Set of) condition/s
    (either known , concieved, or unknown)....

    Only under the conditions which we live under (also, under-stand) right now.
    (and the conditions we ourselves choose/imagine/are encouraged, to "put things under")

    So every "proven" :shrug: truth/fact is STILL finite in scope.
    ie "under THESE conditions, THIS is true.
    or
    from THIS perspective, THIS is what we see (every single time).
    (and these are the "terms" with which we de-scribe it)

    'Things' can be "verified" (and explained) only under the lense of a finite and "pointed" "scope".
     
    #13 blackout, Jul 4, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2009
  14. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Because of the illusion that people are separate from reality. We particiate in that one in unspoken agreeance.

    Sort of. I would word it this way: people are the illusion they are participating in.

    I think it's worth participating in (if just to "be alive").
     
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  15. blackout

    blackout Violet.

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    And I just LOVE the way you participate Honey! :flirt:

    :D
     
  16. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    All of reality-as-we-know-it, including the illusions that we know, exists in the same way as the illusion-that-we-know (whatever way we imagine that to be).

    It's more a philosophical question than one physics would deal with.

    The world-as-we-know-it is composed of all the somethings rathar than all the nothings. "Mattering" and "not mattering" are something, too.
     
  17. rojse

    rojse RF Addict

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    Pretend I didn't understood any of that.
     
  18. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    Why do something so cowardly, anyway?
     
  19. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    I have a question for you, Functionless.

    Have you read the Bhagavad-Gita?
     
  20. ben d

    ben d Being

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    Hi UltraViolet, the post you quote was a response to address the referred statement of Functionless.

    But yes in the larger context, share common ground with your understanding.

    The mind of man is predisposed to deal with reality indirectly through conceptual thinking and such an apparent 'reality' is merely a ceaseless play of finite transient activities within the infinite eternal realty, i.e. the 'maya' of multiplicity of the underlying unity of the one Cosmos.

    The infinite eternal reality can't be verified by man to be a fact because it can't be confined by any space, can't be limited by any time, can't be circumscribed by any limits, can't be described by any words, and can't be known by any knowledge.

    IOW, the ultimate Truth will always be on the other side of man's conceptual decriptions and statements.
     
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