Theists: How do you determine that God is not a malevolent being?

[sayak83]

It's a serious question. I am reading a book on philosophy of religion so the question cropped up. Clearly a sufficiently powerful malevolent being can deceive any theist into thinking he is a good God. So how do you verify that your good is not a powerful malevolent being? In fact how do you no that God himself is not a malevolent being? Evidence and arguments welcome.



Note:- This is a thread for those interested in discussing theological, metaphysical and philosophical arguments and evidence that justifies or negates various worldviews. If one is not interested in such things, that's perfectly fine and the thread is not for you.

 

[Lyndon]

There are malevolent "gods", you don't pray to them. read my signature.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

We do this by the example His Messengers gave us. Their own Person, their Lives and then their words that are offered.

It then becomes our challenge to live to their Virtues and High Ideals.

Regards Tony

 

[sayak83]

We do this by the example His Messengers gave us. Their own Person, their Lives and then their words that are offered.

It then becomes our challenge to live to their Virtues and High Ideals.

Regards Tony

And what makes you confident that the existence of multiple messengers was not specifically designed to sow division and discontent among people?

 

[Terese]

God has shown through his many lilas that he wants happiness and peace for all, and he is that ultimate goal

 

[Dawnofhope]

It's a serious question. I am reading a book on philosophy of religion so the question cropped up. Clearly a sufficiently powerful malevolent being can deceive any theist into thinking he is a good God. So how do you verify that your good is not a powerful malevolent being? In fact how do you no that God himself is not a malevolent being? Evidence and arguments welcome.

I have come to know and understand God throught His Jesus as a Christian and then through Baha'u'llah as a Baha'i. I can not know God directly but I can indirectly through these great personages. That is how I know.

 

[sun rise]

The intellect can ask any number of questions that are not answerable to the intellect. Those who use organs of perception beyond the intellect perceive more clearly.

 

[sayak83]

God has shown through his many lilas that he wants happiness and peace for all, and he is that ultimate goal

Playing a contrarian:-
It would be possible for a skeptic to argue that the Hindu God's advice to sacrifice material possessions and worldly pleasures for a life of frugality would be something a malevolent being may do to rob people of the happiness available here and now in pursuit of illusory promises of heavens and moksha. Further an knowing being would know how with time, the caste system would devolve in a method for oppressing people of lower social status and only a malevolent being would knowingly institute such a system.

 

[sayak83]

I have come to know and understand God throught His Jesus as a Christian and then through Baha'u'llah as a Baha'i. I can not know God directly but I can indirectly through these great personages. That is how I know.

Any sufficiently powerful being can deceive a human, correct?
Further note how Baha'is have faced persecution over the centuries. A knowledgeable malevolent being would know this would happen and send messages so that groups continue to fight with other groups increasing suffering in the world.

 

[sayak83]

The intellect can ask any number of questions that are not answerable to the intellect. Those who use organs of perception beyond the intellect perceive more clearly.

How do you determine that your organs of perception can pierce deceits from a maximally powerful and malevolent being?

 

[Lyndon]

Did you start this thread to lecture us, or learn something new????

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And what makes you confident that the existence of multiple messengers was not specifically designed to sow division and discontent among people?

By reading their advice.

We have a Covernant with God. God Covernant is that He will always guide us. In turn we are asked to accept His Messengers and follow the given guidance and Laws.

This with total free will. The Holy Books also record the history of us using our free will to neglect the Covernant with our God.

Regards Tony

 

[sayak83]

Did you start this thread to lecture us, or learn something new????

Learn about the arguments people have and discuss their soundness.

 

[sayak83]

By reading their advice.

We have a Covernant with God. God Covernant is that He will always guide us. In turn we are asked to accept His Messengers and follow the given guidance and Laws.

This with total free will. The Holy Books also record the history of us using our free will to neglect the Covernant with our God.

Regards Tony

This is promising. If one can show that God provided timely advice that aided human society to avoid some critical danger during its history, one would have a good argument that a good God is guiding us. What kind of example do you have in mind?

 

[Jedster]

It's a serious question. I am reading a book on philosophy of religion so the question cropped up. Clearly a sufficiently powerful malevolent being can deceive any theist into thinking he is a good God. So how do you verify that your good is not a powerful malevolent being? In fact how do you no that God himself is not a malevolent being? Evidence and arguments welcome.

These days , if pressured, I would say I am an apatheist.
However, I was strong theist for a large chunk of my life.
I believed that everyone was born with "knowledge of god", forgets it at birth and then spends their given life as the path of return(to knowing god). (similar to Muslims belief that we all born Muslim). So everything that happens, whether good or bad is, for that purpose.

Anyway I am free of that ...thank God

 

[sayak83]

These days , if pressured, I would say I am an apatheist.
However, I was strong theist for a large chunk of my life.
I believed that everyone was born with "knowledge of god", forgets it at birth and then spends their given life as the path of return(to knowing god). (similar to Muslims belief that we all born Muslim). So everything that happens, whether good or bad is, for that purpose.

Anyway I am free of that ...thank God

Why did you stop believing that?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is promising. If one can show that God provided timely advice that aided human society to avoid some critical danger during its history, one would have a good argument that a good God is guiding us. What kind of example do you have in mind?

In the case of Baha'u'llah he sent Messages to all the Monarchs, Rulers, Leaders, Pope and Divines of His time. He told them what they must do to achive the Most Great Peace. All but the Queen of England rejected or did not reply. The Queens response was met with the affirmation that Her Monarchy would last.

To the remainder he foretold of their downfall and loss of power and influence.

Then Baha'u'llah told us what we must do to obtain the lesser peace.

All this is available and many more times has the remedy been given to the governments of the world. We still neglect to do what is required.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Any sufficiently powerful being can deceive a human, correct?
Further note how Baha'is have faced persecution over the centuries. A knowledgeable malevolent being would know this would happen and send messages so that groups continue to fight with other groups increasing suffering in the world.

That is true lol. Trust and faith are powerful forces. I apply the teachings of Christ and Baha'u'llah to my life and find they give me great stength, hope, and joy. I see the same in my friends. When I had no belief in God I was weak and depressed. If all this life is some mortal mirage, it sure has a strong hold on me.

Can you be any more certain of the truth of reincarnation and Moksha, than my insecurely founded belief in an Omnipotent, Compassionate God?

 

[Jedster]

Why did you stop believing that?

I borrowed the beliefs form my (then) Guru, who I believed was THE living incarnation of the age.
I left the Guru due to certain happenings and began the process of exorcising the beliefs I had taken on.

 

[sayak83]

It's a serious question. I am reading a book on philosophy of religion so the question cropped up. Clearly a sufficiently powerful malevolent being can deceive any theist into thinking he is a good God. So how do you verify that your good is not a powerful malevolent being? In fact how do you no that God himself is not a malevolent being? Evidence and arguments welcome.



Note:- This is a thread for those interested in discussing theological, metaphysical and philosophical arguments and evidence that justifies or negates various worldviews. If one is not interested in such things, that's perfectly fine and the thread is not for you.

I will throw my hat in. Here are my arguments:-

1)The most secure form of knowledge is the knowledge of one's own motives and intentions, especially when enhanced by meditation and self-reflection.

2)Based on self-knowledge I know infallibly that malevolence is not my deepest, stable nature and this knowledge motivates me to actualize this non-malevolent nature in my outward behavior.

3) Vedantic Hinduism, to which I subscribe to, considers that God is identical to this deepest nature of the self and one knows God by recognizing this self.

4) Since my deepest nature is non-malevolent, if 3 is true then God can't be malevolent.

5) If 3 is not true and God is malevolent, then God is not identical with my nature, and by enhancing my non-malevolent Self, I effectively deny the designs of this malevolent being.

Thus in either case, followers of Vedanta do not follow a malevolent deity, no matter how powerful.