Theists and the Truth

[Estro Felino]

His answers answer so many questions about Truth. Dawkins is amazing.

 

[Estro Felino]

Many might also see themselves as beneficiaries, too, as there are many who relish the "good life" that comes from living in America. It's similar to the central idea of patriotism and honoring the military who fight for freedom - or at least, that's what many people believe. Of course, there are still plenty of victims within America, but even they might get deceived.

Too many people in America are tormented by the doubt that the 2020 elections were stolen by Soros' party...you know...
dems.
How can you be sure that they didn't do it?
Nobody can be sure.
Only God knows the Truth. That's why when I die, God will tell me the Truth. God will also punish this crime. It's a terrible crime.
To deceive the American voters, and manipulate a democratic system.

 

[Stevicus]

Too many people in America are tormented by the doubt that the 2020 elections were stolen by Soros' party...you know...
dems.
How can you be sure that they didn't do it?
Nobody can be sure.
Only God knows the Truth. That's why when I die, God will tell me the Truth. God will also punish this crime. It's a terrible crime.
To deceive the American voters, and manipulate a democratic system.

Perhaps God exists and may make everything right in the end. I'm never really completely 100% sure about anything.

I don't know if there's a God or not, but at least as far as what we can tell about our own human history, there's been a lot of political corruption, intrigue, lies, deceptions, manipulation, tyranny, and other horrific, terrible examples of man's inhumanity to man. These are constants in human politics, and if God knows about all of it, then God would be a veritable storehouse of historical information.

 

[Estro Felino]

Perhaps God exists and may make everything right in the end. I'm never really completely 100% sure about anything.

I don't know if there's a God or not, but at least as far as what we can tell about our own human history, there's been a lot of political corruption, intrigue, lies, deceptions, manipulation, tyranny, and other horrific, terrible examples of man's inhumanity to man. These are constants in human politics, and if God knows about all of it, then God would be a veritable storehouse of historical information.

I also understand your perspective as an atheist.
I guess atheists will think that we delude ourselves, hoping for something that is non-existent.

But that hope makes you strive for justice...even if it's an illusion.

 

[Stevicus]

I also understand your perspective as an atheist.
I guess atheists will think that we delude ourselves, hoping for something that is non-existent.

But that hope makes you strive for justice...even if it's an illusion.

I see history as a matter of causes and effects. We may not be able to find out every detail or every truth of all that is hidden. Even then, there are things which we might suspect or think that we know, but can't really prove beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Justice is another matter, at least in terms of social justice. We can still strive for justice, since that's a matter of practical politics. Those who stand in the way of social and economic justice are, at best, being highly impractical and myopic.

I think much of the public is immune to political deception and lies. Or should I say numb to it? It's expected and generally part of the whole drama which is more entertainment than statesmanship.

The only thing they really care about is tangible results - things like better wages, lower prices, affordable housing, affordable healthcare, a better education system. Things they can actually see with their own eyes and say "Yes, our government is doing its job and things are improving."

If the government can't or won't do that, and things continue to spiral downward, then it wouldn't even matter if they told the truth.

 

[Estro Felino]

I see history as a matter of causes and effects. We may not be able to find out every detail or every truth of all that is hidden. Even then, there are things which we might suspect or think that we know, but can't really prove beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Justice is another matter, at least in terms of social justice. We can still strive for justice, since that's a matter of practical politics. Those who stand in the way of social and economic justice are, at best, being highly impractical and myopic.

I think much of the public is immune to political deception and lies. Or should I say numb to it? It's expected and generally part of the whole drama which is more entertainment than statesmanship.

The only thing they really care about is tangible results - things like better wages, lower prices, affordable housing, affordable healthcare, a better education system. Things they can actually see with their own eyes and say "Yes, our government is doing its job and things are improving."

If the government can't or won't do that, and things continue to spiral downward, then it wouldn't even matter if they told the truth.

Do you believe Trump assaulted this woman, right?

Well... I was not there, so it's his word against hers. I cannot decide.
But that's what I love about afterlife. I will find out the Truth.
And whoever lied or assaulted, will pay in front of God.

That's why Theists have a hope.

 

[Valjean]

Do you believe Trump assaulted this woman, right?

Well... I was not there, so he's his word against hers. I cannot decide.
But that's what I love about afterlife. I will find out the Truth.
And whoever lied or assaulted, will pay in front of God.

That's why Theists have a hope.

Sexual assaults and character defects are issues separate from political policy. One may be both a moral reprobate and a competent political leader.
Should we choose politicians for their character, or their job skills?

If you needed a complex operation, would you choose a highly skilled but dissolute surgeon, or a mediocre but morally upstanding one?

 

[Truthseeker]

Well... I was not there, so he's his word against hers. I cannot decide.

A jury of 12 people, beyond a reasonable doubt, said he assaulted her.

 

[Estro Felino]

Sexual assaults and character defects are issues separate from political policy. One may be both a moral reprobate and a competent political leader.
Should we choose politicians for their character, or their job skills?

If you needed a complex operation, would you choose a highly skilled but dissolute surgeon, or a mediocre but morally upstanding one?

With all due respect...but this thread is about religion, theology, to be precise.
Not about politics.

Do you believe in Truth?

 

[Estro Felino]

A jury of 12 people, beyond a reasonable doubt, said he assaulted her.

A jury of 12 people said OJ Simpson was innocent.
Shall I believe he's innocent? I don't.

 

[Link]

I think that what brings all theists (or nearly) together is that they believe that the Truth will be unveiled someday.
Most of them believe that when we die, we find out every thing that was hidden from us in life.
For example, I believe that when I die, God will tell me all the things I want to know about the greatest mysteries of our time.
Whether JFK was really assassinated by the order of the US Deep State; whether the Deep Church killed John Paul I; whether the financial élites of Brussels maliciously boycott the prosperity of European peoples.
That's what my Catholic priest told me when I was little: don't worry, Jesus will answer all your questions, because in the Afterlife there is no deception or lying.


I wonder whether atheists are saddened by the fact that certain truths will never be revealed. In life, I mean.
What do you atheists think of the Truth? The historical Truth?
Do you strive for it?

I think the dead don't know everything yet. They know there is a soul, unseen world, but that's about it. If they were confused in this world, they will see Angels as enemies and when they punish them to be evil. It's only day of judgment when full truth will be manifested to all souls.

However, I think atheists should value truth and everyone should. This is because there consequences if we follow falsehood, for example, being lead to wars on a false basis.

 

[Link]

A jury of 12 people said OJ Simpson was innocent.
Shall I believe he's innocent? I don't.

According to a professor in biology that I took class with, he was proven innocent, yet media hyped it as if he wasn't for racist reasons and for reasons that they didn't understand about biology and circumstantial evidence.

 

[Link]

Do you believe Trump assaulted this woman, right?

Well... I was not there, so he's his word against hers. I cannot decide.
But that's what I love about afterlife. I will find out the Truth.
And whoever lied or assaulted, will pay in front of God.

That's why Theists have a hope.

I kind of hate religion for reasons you state. Too much people delegate the problems in this world for God's judgment in the next. We should deal with issues of justice especially on a social level in this world. We shouldn't wait nor delegate it for the next. That is part of being patient when you can't change a situation, but you should try to change situations and deal with real world problems.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

A jury of 12 people, beyond a reasonable doubt, said he assaulted her.

That's correct in spirit, but not in the details.

The jury was nine people, and because it was a civil case, the standard is a preponderance of evidence, not beyond reasonable doubt. As I understand it, the former only means more likely guilty of the accusation than not. So, if a juror assesses that there is only one chance in three that the defendant is innocent, he is free to vote to convict in a civil trial, but that that's not beyond reasonable doubt or grounds for a criminal conviction, and so must give a not guilty verdict.

Also, he didn't merely assault her. It was a sexual assault.

Moreover, they also agreed with the plaintiff that in addition to sexually assaulting her, he also defamed her.

I was not there, so he's his word against hers. I cannot decide.

I can. His word is worthless ("she's not my type" then misidentifying her as one of his ex-wives), and her reputation is that of an honorable woman.

Also, we have ample evidence that he's a misogynist, a scofflaw, has a sense of entitlement (we know that he tried to seize a government, and bragged about seizing female genitalia), is a bully, and is sexually inappropriate. What else do you need to know to make a judgment there?

A jury of 12 people said OJ Simpson was innocent. Shall I believe he's innocent? I don't.

You weren't there, either.

But that's what I love about afterlife. I will find out the Truth. And whoever lied or assaulted, will pay in front of God.

Pay whom? If there's an afterlife, then he may be tried and punishes again there, but punishing him in the afterlife does nothing for the plaintiff now or then.

What I love about what happened in court is that he will see justice before his death, and so will the plaintiff even if they can't pry a nickel from him or the award is modified. She's been vindicated and he's been humiliated, and he's been ordered to pay her tens of millions of dollars. As I understand it, he won't have to pay until the appeals are exhausted, but he has to put up the amounts of the judgments or a bond of equal value immediately, meaning that he won't have access to that money before the appeal is adjudicated.

 

[Estro Felino]

I kind of hate religion for reasons you state. Too much people delegate the problems in this world for God's judgment in the next. We should deal with issues of justice especially on a social level in this world. We shouldn't wait nor delegate it for the next. That is part of being patient when you can't change a situation, but you should try to change situations and deal with real world problems.

Of course, we can try to change things, here on Earth.
But sometimes people with enormous volition do anything to change things by committing crimes. They go criminal.
And I won't go criminal.
I prefer to delegate justice to God Almighty.

 

[Estro Felino]

rnment, and bragged about seizing female genitalia), is a bully, and is sexually inappropriate. What else do you need to know to make a judgment there?

You weren't there, either.

1) Motive
2) Footprints to his house
3) Attempted escape
4) Psychological Profiling
That suffices me to understand who did it.

Pay whom? If there's an afterlife, then he may be tried and punishes again there, but punishing him in the afterlife does nothing for the plaintiff now or then.

They are both pretty old...so God will judge them soon. We are not immortals, even if some people consider themselves immortals.
Whoever lied or assaulted, will be punished by God. In short time.

What I love about what happened in court is that he will see justice before his death, and so will the plaintiff even if they can't pry a nickel from him or the award is modified. She's been vindicated and he's been humiliated, and he's been ordered to pay her tens of millions of dollars. As I understand it, he won't have to pay until the appeals are exhausted, but he has to put up the amounts of the judgments or a bond of equal value immediately, meaning that he won't have access to that money before the appeal is adjudicated.

This thread is about theology.
Can you remain on topic, please? @Link is on topic, for example.
Thank you.

 

[Father Heathen]

Too many people in America are tormented by the doubt that the 2020 elections were stolen by Soros' party...you know...
dems.
How can you be sure that they didn't do it?
Nobody can be sure.

We can be sure because it's a completely unsubstantiated and implausible conspiracy theory.

Only God knows the Truth. That's why when I die, God will tell me the Truth. God will also punish this crime. It's a terrible crime.
To deceive the American voters, and manipulate a democratic system.

The American People kicked Trump out of office because he was Trash. Maybe it's different in your country, but in this country, trash is considered a bad thing.

 

[Estro Felino]

We can be sure because it's a completely unsubstantiated and implausible conspiracy theory.

The American People kicked Trump out of office because he was Trash. Maybe it's different in your country, but in this country, trash is considered a bad thing.

I have read people say on social media, in 2020, something like "even if they cheated, that was for a just cause: to prevent a fascist president from ruining America".
Well...to some people, truth is optional and unimportant. Less important than defeating a fascist with any means possible.
But to me God is Truth.

 

[Polymath257]

Do you believe Trump assaulted this woman, right?

Well... I was not there, so he's his word against hers. I cannot decide.
But that's what I love about afterlife. I will find out the Truth.
And whoever lied or assaulted, will pay in front of God.

That's why Theists have a hope.

A jury decided that he did. They were convinced by the evidence given. For legalities, that is what is required.

 

[Estro Felino]

A jury decided that he did. They were convinced by the evidence given. For legalities, that is what is required.

I think that any lawyer in the very first year of law school learns that the judicial truth is not the historical truth.