The True Church

[e.r.m.]

Peter didn't say that those words you highlighted in red cancel out he first part where baptism saves you, you're saying that. Peter said baptism saves you and is an appeal to God for a good conscience, therefore baptism does do both.

 

[e.r.m.]

But who says that baptism has to involve water? Matthew 3:11:



I've never been able to find any Biblical support for the idea that Christian baptism must be a ceremony involving pouring, sprinkling, or dipping a person in water. The generally held Quaker view, i.e. that baptism is a matter of being "washed in the Holy Spirit" and is an ongoing process rather than a single event, agrees with everything I've been able to personally glean from the Bible.

However, the copies at my disposal are black marker-free.

Act 10:47 “No one can stop us from using water to baptize these people who have received the Holy Spirit in the same way that we did, can they?”

Acts 8:36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?”

 

[e.r.m.]

The Baptist Church considers Baptism to be an ordinance ie. It is something that we are commanded by God to do. I can't conceive how anyone could construe thae act as strictly spiritual and think they have the truth of God. On the other hand the physical act without a confession of faith is worthless re.

Mat 3:7 ¶ But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruit worthy of repentance:

To see baptism as something man is not involved in requires an extreme tunnel vision, to just NOT NOTICE a skew of scriptures, including Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38, Acts 8:36, Acts 10:47-48, Acts 22:16, and many more.

 

[e.r.m.]

I have a couple of questions.

What exactly is the point of being baptised? I myself am not. If a baby is born into the world free of sin then why baptise it to rid it of sin that they don't have? Also, is anyone allowed to get baptised at any point in thier life? I'm sure that they can but could someone confirm this for me please?

What does number 8 mean? Teaches that jesus is the only way to heaven. It's a bit vague.

Can someone explain? Cheers.

If I may, I agree with you about infant baptism. No need.
A person is not only able, but is supposed to be baptized at another time. Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38 make becoming a disciple, believing in Jesus, and repenting as prerequisites to being baptized. Only when a person is capable and willing of these can they be baptized.

 

[e.r.m.]

Who doesn't make up the Church?

Knock and the door shall be opened to you.

Those who are saved are in the church.

Knock and the door shall be opened to you doesn't apply since this passage is already talking to the church.

Revelation 3:14, 20 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. [20] Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

 

[e.r.m.]

How does someone become part of the body of Christ on earth?

By being saved.

 

[e.r.m.]

Not for anyone but myself. I'm a free agent of the Spirit. I am commanded not to be a slave to words or the Law but to be free in Love. What you want to be is up to you . . .



"Personal faith in Jesus Christ" is just meaningless cultural noise to me, so I can't answer this question.


I can spread the gospel without all the words and silly made-up doctrines.

It's love, Brother - letting go of my self to find that others are me. We are all one in Unity. All appearances to the contrary are mere egotism and miss the mark.

You are not a standard unto yourself and you don't have the authority required to set the truth for yourself. Only God has that authority and the doctrine and words that HE MADE UP are the last say on the matter.
John 12:48-50 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. [49] For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. [50] I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

 

[e.r.m.]

Never in the 41 years of my life have I ever received or greeted a Catholic missionary at my door preaching any news, good or otherwise.

Nor have I.

 

[e.r.m.]

Actually there are 4 marks to the true church.

1)." the Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13, CCC 813–822)

Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church.His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Although some Catholics dissent from officially-taught doctrines, the Church’s official teachers—the pope and the bishops united with him—have never changed any doctrine. Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

2).The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8, CCC 823–829)

By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

3). The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10, CCC 830–856)

Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19).The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

4). The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20, CCC 857–865)

The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself.Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim."
These quotes are taken directly from here: http://www.catholic.com/library/pillar.asp

Enjoy!:yes:

Matthew 3:9-10 And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. [10] The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Being the bride of Christ is not inherited by history, but by following His teaching faithfully, especially on being saved.

 

[e.r.m.]

If God adds people to the one true church, salvation must be from God. Therefore, the Calvinist must be right. Those who God adds to the one true church were the ones God foreknew, predestined and chosen to believe, do you agree?

Romans 8

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

31What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

As stated in Acts 2:38-39, instructions for forgiveness of sins, then God adds when we follow through. Your conclusion doesn't follow scripture.

 

[e.r.m.]

But we're not talking about baptism here. It isn't the baptism that saves. Only God saves. It was not until the candidates recognized that they had been reconciled that they asked for baptism. Once they recognized that, they were part of the Body, they changed their ways, and they were baptized as a sacrament of that spiritual truth.

But it doesn't SAY that. It says baptism in Jesus's name IS for forgiveness of dins.

 

[e.r.m.]

What is there to obey about the gospel? "Change your ways because heaven's imperial rule is closing in." "Changing our ways" is to obey the gospel. Repentance. One doesn't (cannot) repent until one has already come to the realization that one is reconciled. Otherwise, there would be no compulsion to repent.

When one comes to believe, one is added to the Body of Christ. Then one "changes one's ways."

Help me out here, buddy: :yes:

One doesn't (cannot) repent until one has already come to the realization that one is reconciled.

Please, try to justify this man made concept with a scripture.

 

[e.r.m.]

The Word sacrament is not in the Bible. So it is not a Biblical teaching. 1 Peter 3:21 tell us we are saved by the waters of Baptism. I believe the Word of God not some false teacher of a Denomination. My trust is in what God said in his word not denominational teaching.

And just to add to that, the Greek Biblical word mysterion does not carry the same meaning that sacrament later morphed into. So, no, sacrament is not in the Bible in any form.

 

[e.r.m.]

If it's stated in the Bible then it is the word of God. If it is not stated in the Bible then it is denominational.

I agree with the first part, not with the second part. The Bible does not speak of denominational, so we really can't use that as a standard. If it is in the Bible then it is the word of God, if it contradicts the Bible then it is man made.

 

[e.r.m.]

What of the different interpretations of the "words of God" stated in the Bible? Aren't those also denominational? How do we decide between the Word of God and the "words of god"?

We shouldn't be interpreting the Bible. We didn't write it. We should be seeking the original intent of what was written. It's the Holy Spirit's message through these men that counts, not ours.

 

[e.r.m.]

If it's stated in the Bible, then it's Biblical. If it's not stated in the Bible, then it's either extra-Biblical, or implied. "Bible" and "denomination" are not mutually exclusive. Just because it's extra-Biblical does not make it inherently untrue. If the Church is the Body of Christ (which is Biblical, BTW), then the Church speaks for Christ, and not only through the Bible. Did Christ speak only through the words of the Bible when he was on earth? I don't believe so. In fact, he refuted the scriptures in several places. "It is written...but I tell you..." By limiting theology to strict Biblical language, you're placing a gag order on Christ.

Not implied, but inferred. Remember that? I know no one today who speaks for God like Jesus and the apostles. And where these so called spokespersons for God contradict the Bible, then what they say is no good.

 

[e.r.m.]

So what does that mean? If it's not in the Bible, then it's false? I think what you're really saying is that if it's in the Bible and is being interpreted as you would interpret it, it's the word of God. If it's in the Bible and is being interpreted differently than you would interpret it, it's not the word of God.

No, the dividing line is between those who do interpret Scripture, and those who seek the author's original intent. For example,
Luke 14:27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
Some say "I think carrying our cross means our burdens are trials in life."

It doesn't matter what people think it means, what did Jesus mean when he said it? Only then can we apply it accurately.

 

[e.r.m.]

I'm sorry that I did not realize that these were old posts. I'll drop the matter.

 

[rrosskopf]

Marks of the True Church

1. Believes that Jesus Christ is God. John 1:1

2. Has no Head of the church but Jesus. Ephesians 5:23

3. Teaches truth not Denominationalism. Mark 7:7-8

4. Teaches that The Bible is the True Word of God, and is without error. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

5. Teaches that Authority comes from the word of God not leaders in the Church. 1 Thessalonians 4:2, Acts 2:42

6. Teaches Believers Baptism. Mark 16:16

7. Teaches that Repentance and Baptism is for the Forgiveness of Sins and the way to receive the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38, Romans 6:3-4

8. Teaches that Jesus is the only way to heaven. Acts 4:12

9. Teaches that Sinners will go to Hell. Revelation 21:8, 20:11-15

10. Takes care of the Poor. James 1:27

11. And does the Great Commission. Matthew 28:18-20

1. Bad translation. Should read "In the beginning was the spokesman, and the spokesman was with God, and the spokesman was a God." Jesus is not God Almighty.
2. Only a church which believes in modern revelation can claim to have Jesus as their literal head. That narrows it down substantially!
3. Mark 7:7 just says to reject the creeds of men. I guess that would include the Trinity. Well! That sure narrows it down!
4. Bad translation. "Scripture" just means writing. It should read "All inspired writing is profitable for teaching, etc. It never mentions the Bible, as the Bible did not exist. It doesn't teach anything about inerrancy either. That is one of those creeds of men.
5. 1 Thessalonians doesn't mention the Bible; it only states that the apostles received their authority from Jesus Christ. So we are looking for a church with apostles who have received their authority from Jesus Christ.
6. Yes, the true church will teach baptism.
7. Yes, repentance too. The Gift of the Holy Ghost was given by the apostles (who received their authority from Christ) by the laying on of hands.
8. Acts 4:12 doesn't mention heaven; it only mentions being saved.
9. Actually both verses talk about a lake of fire; the second one states that hell will be tossed into the lake of fire.
10. What church does the best job of taking care of their orphans and widows?
11. Great commission? Do you mean missionary work? Yes, the Lord's church does a great deal of missionary work.
12. The Lord's church is run by prophets and apostles. (Ephesians 4:11, 2:20)
13. The Lord's church teaches that men can become gods. (Rev. 3:21)
14. The Lord's church teaches us that we lived as spirits before we were born. (Jeremiah 1:5)
15. The Lord's church teaches us that an apostasy will happen before Christ's return. (2 Thess. 2:3)
16. The Lord's church teaches that there will be a restoration before Christ's return. (Acts 3:21)
17. The Lord's church teaches that Jesus and God the Father are two separate individuals, each with their own body. (Acts 7:55)
18. The Lord's church teaches that we are saved by grace (Ephesians 2:8), but judged by our works (Rev. 20:13)
19. The Lord's church teaches people to follow the commandment of Christ, to be perfect as God is perfect. (Matt.5:48)

 

[Muffled]

Are you saying that evolution is propaganda? Then so is physics and chemistry.

I believe evolution is jsut a theory and an incorrect one in some instances since there aere many elements to it. A sciece book that treats evolution as fact is applying propaganda for a praticular point of view.

I believe there are unproven things in Physics as well and the proponents of a certain point of view sell their point of view.

I believe, usually Chemistry is pretty cut and dried but that doesn't mean chemists know everything or there wouldn't have to be continuous experimentation. At least chemists don't claim to know everything and usually are careful to say that somethng is experimental.