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The Trinity

Sha'irullah

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
If one applied the Trinity to mathematics it would look like poop in a punch bowl.
1+1+1=1 makes no sense. If you are trying to quantify anything yet alone sum it cannot break something so objective.
 
Jensen

Jensen

Active Member
Katzpur said:
Jesus is not God the Father. On the other hand, the Father once specifically addressed Him as "God."

Hebrews 1:7-8 states, "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Of course, as with any other passage of scripture, one could argue that what it says isn't what it meant to say. Unless you're going to do that, though, you'd have to acknowledge that Jesus Christ can also legitimately be referred to as "God" -- even though He is subordinate to His Father.
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Remembering that all letters were of the lower case.....
Man was also called god...

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psalms 82:6

And so God has referred to others as god also.
And so it would have looked like this...

but unto the son he saith, thy throne, o god, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
 
Jensen

Jensen

Active Member
Muffled said:
Exactly One God: The Father and Jesus Christ. The context is a contrast of God with idols. Jesus is not named with the idols, He is named with God. If Jesus were just a man he would be an idol and named with them.
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Being named with God does not make him God. Would you be God if named with God? Don't think so....
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Jensen said:
Remembering that all letters were of the lower case.....
Man was also called god...

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psalms 82:6

And so God has referred to others as god also.
And so it would have looked like this...

but unto the son he saith, thy throne, o god, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Click to expand...
Agreed. And yet there is no other place in the Bible where any one individual is addressed by the title, "God" (or "god") by God the Father. I do believe we human beings are essentially the same "species" (for lack of a better word) as God, and so we do have the potential to become as He is. But the Father never address Abraham or Moses or Peter, anything remotely equivalent to "god." Jesus Christ was often referred to as the Father's "Only Begotten Son," and is said to have been given all that His Father had. He even had the power in himself to take up His own life again after He had been killed. None of us have the power to do that. We are God's children and He is our Father, but the words "thy throne, o god" are, to me, a pretty significant indicator of Jesus' divine station.
 
kjw47

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Jensen said:
I said this....."When looking closely, this is not about Jesus being God, being that it says that God, Jesus, and believers are all one."

And that was what Muffled was replying to when he answered with this...."I beleive you need to read your text again because it does not say that."...... Because he believes that it does.....which is why he wrote this in response...... "I believe since these versess are clear in context that Jesus is God in the flesh."

He does believe that Jesus is God in the flesh.....I do not.
Muffled correct me if I am wrong.
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When Gods justice scales( Deuteronomy 32:4)are involved--uncorruptable--balanced set of justice scales-- an eye for an eye--balance

A perfect mortal( not God in the flesh) died a sinless mortal existence, buying back what a perfect mortal lost for mankind by rebelling and sinning. It wouldn't be justice if Jesus were God in the flesh.
 
Jensen

Jensen

Active Member
kjw47 said:
When Gods justice scales( Deuteronomy 32:4)are involved--uncorruptable--balanced set of justice scales-- an eye for an eye--balance

A perfect mortal( not God in the flesh) died a sinless mortal existence, buying back what a perfect mortal lost for mankind by rebelling and sinning. It wouldn't be justice if Jesus were God in the flesh.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree that Jesus is not God in the flesh.:)
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Katzpur said:
Jesus is not God the Father. On the other hand, the Father once specifically addressed Him as "God."

Hebrews 1:7-8 states, "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Of course, as with any other passage of scripture, one could argue that what it says isn't what it meant to say. Unless you're going to do that, though, you'd have to acknowledge that Jesus Christ can also legitimately be referred to as "God" -- even though He is subordinate to His Father.
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Hebrews is neither authored by God nor authored by Jesus; so to quote from it is an invalid argument.

Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Katzpur said:
:facepalm: It's in my Bible, and I accept it as scripture. Therefore, it's valid as far as I'm concerned.
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Of course one could; there is no compulsion.

There were said to be about forty gospels; at the time of canonization, they kept only four out of them without assigning any reason as to why they included these and rejected the others; instead they bound letters from Paul with the four and some others of their liking to constitute NTBible.

Hebrew is one such letter written by sinful Paul (as per Christian creed only Jesus was innocent all others are sinful); so to quote from it to confer godhead on a person is far from being reasonable.

Regards
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
paarsurrey said:
Of course one could; there is no compulsion.

There were said to be about forty gospels; at the time of canonization, they kept only four out of them without assigning any reason as to why they included these and rejected the others; instead they bound letters from Paul with the four and some others of their liking to constitute NTBible.

Hebrew is one such letter written by sinful Paul (as per Christian creed only Jesus was innocent all others are sinful); so to quote from it to confer godhead on a person is far from being reasonable.
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Well, I'd certainly be the last one to argue with you that we have a perfect canon, that everything God or Jesus ever said ended up in it, or that everything that's in it was transcribed and translated correctly, so you don't have to convince me of that. I'm well aware (probably more so than most people on this forum) the degree to which the Christian canon has changed over the years. That said, I see Paul as an Apostle of the Lord and I see His epistles, etc. as having value. If all we had for scripture was the writings of non-sinful men, we wouldn't have much of a Bible at all.

By the way, just to make things clear, I am not a Trinitarian. I believe in a divine Father and a divine Son who are "one" in will, purpose, mind and heart. I believe the word "God" can be accurately applied to both individuals, but that "God" is also a collective noun that is a synonym for "Godhead."

If it makes you feel good to tell me that my beliefs are neither valid nor reasonable, though, have at it. You'll have a lot of company.
 
J

John Martin

Active Member
logician said:
The one idea of the trinitiy that is comical is the holy spirit. What the heck is that?

A gopher for the son and the father?
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Trinity means that God is relationship. Life is relationship.
God is like the Sun,fullness of Being. This fullness radiates just as the Sun radiates.There is subtle difference between the Sun and its radiance, even though it is one Sun. This radiance which is dependent on God acts like a mirror in which again the divine reflects. The mirror is like the Moon that receives the light from the Sun. So we have core, the radiance,the reflection. The core can be called 'the Father' the radiance is the Mother and the reflection is the Child. May be the Trinity can be renamed, The Father, the Mother and the Child. All the three form one God, they are not three Gods.
A man represent the Father, a woman represents the mother and the children represent the divine child.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
paarsurrey said:
Of course one could; there is no compulsion.

There were said to be about forty gospels; at the time of canonization, they kept only four out of them without assigning any reason as to why they included these and rejected the others; instead they bound letters from Paul with the four and some others of their liking to constitute NTBible.

Hebrew is one such letter written by sinful Paul (as per Christian creed only Jesus was innocent all others are sinful); so to quote from it to confer godhead on a person is far from being reasonable.

Regards
Click to expand...
Hebrews is generally thought to not have been authored by Paul.

In fact, the canonization process did include standards by which inclusion or exclusion was decided. And it never was meant to reject non-canonical writings -- only to set a standard.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
sojourner said:
Hebrews is generally thought to not have been authored by Paul.

In fact, the canonization process did include standards by which inclusion or exclusion was decided. And it never was meant to reject non-canonical writings -- only to set a standard.
Click to expand...

My point is that Jesus never authored this stuff.

Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
sojourner said:
So? Why does Jesus have to have authored anything? Christianity isn't about belief, particularly, it's about community, out of which the stories and letters arose.
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Well that might be your concern; not mine, please.
Please be happy in your community.

Regards
 
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