I like that you brought out ' mainstream Christian denominations ' because quantity does Not equal quality.
Jesus forewarns us at Matt. 7:21-23 that MANY would come in his name but prove false.
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The Trinity - What on Earth is it?
- Thread starter rocala
- Start date
Jesus forewarns us at Matt. 7:21-23 that MANY would come in his name but prove false.
Niatero
*banned*
Has your question been answered? Did you find out what you wanted to know? I have some new ideas about it.
While that is true, being a smaller denomination such as the Jehovah Witnesses does not assure quality either. Some Christian groups are not well regarded within Christendom and while the justification may be unfair there may be good reason for the criticism. The point is, just because you are a relatively small group that feels persecuted or otherwise, does not mean you are any more correct than the Christen brethren you view as false.
Niatero
*banned*
I'm still in the process of revising and probably always will be. Here are some of my current thoughts:
- Trinity doctrines have mostly only ever been used to draw lines between Christianity and other religions, and between churches that want to be part of the mainstream and ones that don't. Multitudes of Christians in the mainstream churches don't actually believe all of it, and the churches aren't trying seriously to do anything about that.
- What the Bible says that looks like deifying Jesus is mostly only for Jews to be able to recognize and accept Him as their Lord. They were misused later by Christian leaders competing for control over the human and material resources of Christianity. That's how we got the Trinity doctrines.
- The personal interactions that we see in the gospels between God and Jesus are real, and not just God talking to Himself.
I'm thinking that the debating is mostly around people insisting on one side that Jesus is God, and on the other side that He is not. I'm also thinking that saying that He is God is mostly because sometimes people think that believing that is a requirement for salvation. Before this I thought I could agree with saying that Jesus is God, but that was only because that means something different to me from what it means to people clamorously promoting their Trinity beliefs.
Niatero
*banned*
This is an update on my thinking about the Trinty. It will mostly be repeating what I've already said, with some minor modifications.
- The ways that Jesus is glorified in the Bible stories was mostly for Jews to recognize Him as their Lord and the ruler of God's kingdom, and words and acts of devotion toward Him were part of that. His Jewish followers would have understood it in a way that did not make Jesus a god.
- The personal interactions between Jesus and God, and them talking to each other, that we see in the gospels, is real, and not just God talking to Himself.
- Later, some Christian philosophers started trying to explain how Christians could be worshipping Jesus and God without it being two gods. I've speculated about how that happened, but I haven't found any clear explanation. They tried to explain it using ideas from Greek philosophy, and different ones explained it different ways. Factions grew up around them and started feuding with each other. The emperors tried to stop that by getting some bishops to sign an agreement. That's how we got the creeds that say some things about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit that are called "the Trinity doctrine."
- The Trinity doctrine has mostly only ever been used to draw lines between Christianity and other religions, and between mainstream churches and other churches. Multitudes of members of mainstream churches don't believe everything it says, and the churches don't seem to be trying do anything about that. When people are promoting what they call "The Trinity" in online discussions, they mostly don't seem to know or care what the Trinity doctrine actually says. They mostly seem to think that the only part that matters is that Jesus is God, and everything else that they call "the Trinity" is different for different ones, and not the official teachings of any mainstream church about the Trinity.
- The reason for insisting that Jesus is God might be because sometimes people think that a person has to believe that to be saved.
- The ways that Jesus is glorified in the Bible stories was mostly for Jews to recognize Him as their Lord and the ruler of God's kingdom, and words and acts of devotion toward Him were part of that. His Jewish followers would have understood it in a way that did not make Jesus a god.
- The personal interactions between Jesus and God, and them talking to each other, that we see in the gospels, is real, and not just God talking to Himself.
- Later, some Christian philosophers started trying to explain how Christians could be worshipping Jesus and God without it being two gods. I've speculated about how that happened, but I haven't found any clear explanation. They tried to explain it using ideas from Greek philosophy, and different ones explained it different ways. Factions grew up around them and started feuding with each other. The emperors tried to stop that by getting some bishops to sign an agreement. That's how we got the creeds that say some things about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit that are called "the Trinity doctrine."
- The Trinity doctrine has mostly only ever been used to draw lines between Christianity and other religions, and between mainstream churches and other churches. Multitudes of members of mainstream churches don't believe everything it says, and the churches don't seem to be trying do anything about that. When people are promoting what they call "The Trinity" in online discussions, they mostly don't seem to know or care what the Trinity doctrine actually says. They mostly seem to think that the only part that matters is that Jesus is God, and everything else that they call "the Trinity" is different for different ones, and not the official teachings of any mainstream church about the Trinity.
- The reason for insisting that Jesus is God might be because sometimes people think that a person has to believe that to be saved.
Hermit Philosopher
Selflessly here for you
Dear @rocala,
I’d say that the position from which the question is posed -“The Trinity - What on Earth is it?”- allows mainly for illogical answers.
As a biblical notion, the Trinity is not a mundane/worldly/earthly concept, but a spiritual one. For it to make sense and for its wisdom to unfold -as with all biblical concepts- the Trinity too must be approached in a spiritual frame of mind.
I realise that this does not say anything unless one regularly, spiritually contemplates on biblical concepts in general already and that I cannot in a few sentences sum up the beauty of the Trinity to another, but one could begin somewhere like here:
In Scripture, “Man” lives and acts in “God”.
That notion can sometimes be the start of a beautiful, spiritual exploration.
Humbly,
Hermit
I’d say that the position from which the question is posed -“The Trinity - What on Earth is it?”- allows mainly for illogical answers.
As a biblical notion, the Trinity is not a mundane/worldly/earthly concept, but a spiritual one. For it to make sense and for its wisdom to unfold -as with all biblical concepts- the Trinity too must be approached in a spiritual frame of mind.
I realise that this does not say anything unless one regularly, spiritually contemplates on biblical concepts in general already and that I cannot in a few sentences sum up the beauty of the Trinity to another, but one could begin somewhere like here:
In Scripture, “Man” lives and acts in “God”.
That notion can sometimes be the start of a beautiful, spiritual exploration.
Humbly,
Hermit
Even the Pharisees had reasons for their criticism, and so did Jesus giving reasons for his many ' woes ' against them along with his reasons why in the 23rd chapter of Matthew.
To me that did Not make Jesus as wrong.
Jesus did forewarns us that MANY would be on the wrong or broad road - Matthew 7:13-14
Jesus also said MANY would prove false to him at Matthew 7:21-23
Plus, true or genuine followers would be ' hated ' as we can read at Matthew 10:22; 24:9; Luke 21:17; John 15:21
So, it is Not a popularity contest, Not quantity over quality.
- www.jw.org