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The Theory of Evolution is supported by the evidence.

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Neanderthals had larger brains by skull volume... they were not necessarily "smarter" than we are though, nor did they have anything to do with our brain size. Modern humans had their brain size where it is today, long before we encountered Neanderthals.

The "getting by today in a suit" thing is about the fact that there is no evidence that they were "inferior" to us in any significant measure. I hate to say it, but other than the unkempt hair and teeth, the Geico cavemen are not that far off from what you could expect. (except they would be shorter, broader and more heavily muscled.)

The interbreeding idea will need more study (and hopefully more Neanderthal DNA) to figure out.

And there is a significant amount of difference between humans and neanderthals as far as our DNA goes. All humans are roughly 0.01% different in our DNA... Nearderthals were about 1.0-1.5% different from us... that is very significant.

wa:do
 

RedOne77

Active Member
Neanderthals had larger brains by skull volume... they were not necessarily "smarter" than we are though, nor did they have anything to do with our brain size. Modern humans had their brain size where it is today, long before we encountered Neanderthals.

Morphology isn't everything. I've heard that Neanderthals didn't have the same sophisticated technology as Cro-Magnons did until after their territories overlapped. Suggesting that they just copied what our ancestors did, and thus suggesting that they were slightly inferior in intelligence.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Morphology isn't everything. I've heard that Neanderthals didn't have the same sophisticated technology as Cro-Magnons did until after their territories overlapped. Suggesting that they just copied what our ancestors did, and thus suggesting that they were slightly inferior in intelligence.
Actually their stone tools were often superior to ours. What they seemed to lack was projectile weapons. That one technological edge gave us our advantage.
(that and the fact that Neanderthals were lower density populations)
Our getting projectile weapons first isn't a sign that we are smarter, any more than the fact that Europeans developed guns first makes them smarter than anyone else.

wa:do
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
Actually their stone tools were often superior to ours. What they seemed to lack was projectile weapons. That one technological edge gave us our advantage.
(that and the fact that Neanderthals were lower density populations)
Our getting projectile weapons first isn't a sign that we are smarter, any more than the fact that Europeans developed guns first makes them smarter than anyone else.

wa:do

Indeed. Technology is frequently co-opted by one population from another. The Europeans wouldn't have had the guns without the Chinese first developing gunpowder.
The dominating culture is not necessarily more intelligent. Technological advancement has much more to do with opportunity.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Indeed. Technology is frequently co-opted by one population from another. The Europeans wouldn't have had the guns without the Chinese first developing gunpowder.
The dominating culture is not necessarily more intelligent. Technological advancement has much more to do with opportunity.
And one guy with a bright idea. :)
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
I'll only slap someone that slaps me first. After initially coming here for a chat with others that have not totally worked it it out, i find many that are prepared to be condescending to those that know less than they. I saw no criterion for one to be 132 club member or portray some intellectual advantage over others.

Hmm...that sounds like a Satanic statement.


Hey...one thing granted I came to forum very uneducated in relaton to recent data. And hey... that's what I was doing here. What about you?? But the rudeness and lack of ability to provide information repectfully to the less educated makes this not the forum to learn. So I went and looked at what's out there as best as I could understand.

I am glad. This is an educational forum after all.

So some of what I learned was this. Scientists believe that evolution is a fact because humans have very similar genetics to primates and we were not created so we had to come from somewhere. I read of scientific debates around Neanderthal being no more different to us than we are to each other. Which makes sense seeing as humans were already here and bred with neanderthal to make humans. How's that for logic. Others assert we are closer to apes than neanderthal. Others say neanderthal were human others say not. Older research purports we came from Africa other research that maintains we did not. Research that suggests chomosome 2 was present in neanderthal. Two versions of how we got chromosome 2 both requiring a successful mutation of a gene that does not appear to have any advantage..yet proliferated, junk DNA MAYBE not so junky....and so the saga goes on. This info was not gleaned from creationist sites.. SOME evolutionists are too narrow minded to even admit there is debate around.. so I ask you who is uninformed.. as this is the idea I had initially anyway. It really appears to be a case of whose version you wish to accept given most of us are not scientifically educated to a degree as to debate research findings.

I see. But people only chose to debate it, when they are not satisfied with what is. Maybe you misinterpreted the part of Theory of Evolution.

Just like there is thousands of different species of birds, they are still called birds, same with beetles, monkeys, and other species of animals.

You don't see scientists debating how those other species of birds or animals came to be, they just accept it.

Being humans, we have instinct and natural carnal nature. Which makes us animals.

Instinct brought us here.



Pretty much all that appears to be agreed on by scientists is that we were not created and the most likely scenario is we evolved from primates because they have the most similar genes. How, when, where and why is still being heatedly debated in the scientific community. So this is what calling evolution a 'fact' is all about. Are you serious? Or perhaps not so open minded as you would like to think you are!

How, when, and where were humans created by the hand of God?

Maybe your missing out on the fact that the entire solar system was made from a nebula or a star that went supernovae. Essentially, all life is made from stars.

And it is a fact, that humans and other animals in general, adapt and evolve to their environment around them.


It seems after looking deeper and trying to educate myself I still see no reason to call or insinuate anything a creationist has to say is stupid or not based on evidence. If anything I feel you have less to sprooke about than before I had a read.

You would be wrong to assume such a thing. The lack of evidence is within you.

Now, creationism...why do you believe in it?
 
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Orias

Left Hand Path
Alas, I'm not familiar with humans back then. I can barely cope with modern ones. the forum at The History Channel has some posters who'd likely know much more.
But it seems clear that Neanderthals weren't smarter than humans.

Exactly. That is why the Neanderthals are dead, and the Croatians survived.

Here is a little info...

We share 98.9% of the gene pool with chimpanzees
We shared 99.8% of the gene pool with Neanderthals
We share over 90% of the gene pool with Gorillas.

Someone please site me if this information is incorrect, but it is just something I got off of National Geographic.
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
Indeed. Technology is frequently co-opted by one population from another. The Europeans wouldn't have had the guns without the Chinese first developing gunpowder.
The dominating culture is not necessarily more intelligent. Technological advancement has much more to do with opportunity.

There is a Latin quote, but I forgot what it is in Latin...but it goes something like...

Opportunity makes a thief.
 

newhope101

Active Member
Hey I doubled up on posts above sorry. Thanks Revoltingest for your comments.

I read an article "Searching for the building blocks of life" by Tudor Vieru 9/1/2010. Excert below:-

Established scientific knowledge has it that these molecules were capable of evolving without the need of RNA or DNA and their replication. This is never the case in actual, living beings, which all rely on replication to pass on genetic material to future generations, as well as for renewing their own cells. The Spanish team says that “compound genomes,” these units that require no DNA and RNA, cannot be construed into evolutionary units.
The work implies that experts who agree with “Metabolism First”-type theories on the origins of life should review their work thoroughly. The team concedes that primordial metabolic systems might have indeed provided the suitable environment for early polymers, such as RNA, to form, but contends that a metabolic approach only has severe limitations. The metabolism is defined as a set of chemical reactions that engages in catalysis processes with all members of a closed system, in this case promoting evolution without the need for genetic replication. "

So given that scientists are unable to produce life in a contolled laboratory I say this is proof that God created first life on earth. Scientists have tried everything to produce life from non life...it's one of their holy grails. Surely if life evolved on earth scientists should be able to micmic it by now. Looking at the living cell one sees a ready built factory... surely this is design.
 

Tristesse

Well-Known Member
Hey I doubled up on posts above sorry. Thanks Revoltingest for your comments.

I read an article "Searching for the building blocks of life" by Tudor Vieru 9/1/2010. Excert below:-

Established scientific knowledge has it that these molecules were capable of evolving without the need of RNA or DNA and their replication. This is never the case in actual, living beings, which all rely on replication to pass on genetic material to future generations, as well as for renewing their own cells. The Spanish team says that “compound genomes,” these units that require no DNA and RNA, cannot be construed into evolutionary units.
The work implies that experts who agree with “Metabolism First”-type theories on the origins of life should review their work thoroughly. The team concedes that primordial metabolic systems might have indeed provided the suitable environment for early polymers, such as RNA, to form, but contends that a metabolic approach only has severe limitations. The metabolism is defined as a set of chemical reactions that engages in catalysis processes with all members of a closed system, in this case promoting evolution without the need for genetic replication. "

So given that scientists are unable to produce life in a contolled laboratory I say this is proof that God created first life on earth. Scientists have tried everything to produce life from non life...it's one of their holy grails. Surely if life evolved on earth scientists should be able to micmic it by now. Looking at the living cell one sees a ready built factory... surely this is design.

Ok, Thats an argument from ignorance. Just because, scientists haven't found the exact mechanism to mimic how life formed on earth, does not mean that some all powerful sky daddy did it. It may be the case that we never know what caused the first living organisms, but even then you're still not justified in making something up. You have to have evidence to support your claims, not the lack of evidence for some other explanation. Because when you don't know the answer. Guess what? You don't know the answer.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Hey I doubled up on posts above sorry. Thanks Revoltingest for your comments.

I read an article "Searching for the building blocks of life" by Tudor Vieru 9/1/2010. Excert below:-

Established scientific knowledge has it that these molecules were capable of evolving without the need of RNA or DNA and their replication. This is never the case in actual, living beings, which all rely on replication to pass on genetic material to future generations, as well as for renewing their own cells. The Spanish team says that “compound genomes,” these units that require no DNA and RNA, cannot be construed into evolutionary units.
The work implies that experts who agree with “Metabolism First”-type theories on the origins of life should review their work thoroughly. The team concedes that primordial metabolic systems might have indeed provided the suitable environment for early polymers, such as RNA, to form, but contends that a metabolic approach only has severe limitations. The metabolism is defined as a set of chemical reactions that engages in catalysis processes with all members of a closed system, in this case promoting evolution without the need for genetic replication. "

So given that scientists are unable to produce life in a contolled laboratory I say this is proof that God created first life on earth. Scientists have tried everything to produce life from non life...it's one of their holy grails. Surely if life evolved on earth scientists should be able to micmic it by now. Looking at the living cell one sees a ready built factory... surely this is design.

Yes but why would you bring it up in a thread about evolution? We have a thread about abiogenesis, if that's what you're interested in. This one is about evolution.
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
So given that scientists are unable to produce life in a contolled laboratory I say this is proof that God created first life on earth. Scientists have tried everything to produce life from non life...it's one of their holy grails. Surely if life evolved on earth scientists should be able to micmic it by now. Looking at the living cell one sees a ready built factory... surely this is design.

Hmm...what do you mean by non-life?
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
So given that scientists are unable to produce life in a contolled laboratory I say this is proof that God created first life on earth. Scientists have tried everything to produce life from non life...it's one of their holy grails. Surely if life evolved on earth scientists should be able to micmic it by now. Looking at the living cell one sees a ready built factory... surely this is design.

Some Abiogenesis threads for you....

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/evolution-vs-creationism/97944-danmac-abiogenesis.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...127-scientists-continue-work-abiogenesis.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/science-vs-religion/97940-abiogenesis-elements-life.html


And to assume "God did it" simply because no concrete evidence exists for abiogenesis is to not only ignore the many other explanations, but is a logical fallacy known as Arguing from Ignorance.
 

sniper762

Well-Known Member
as the bible says about god, "no beginning nor end" applies also to the universe.

there IS NO PROOF of its origin (if there ever was one), only specalative theory.

the notion of god "poofing" into existence or ""the big bang", thus starting it all are both fath based beliefs.
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
as the bible says about god, "no beginning nor end" applies also to the universe.

there IS NO PROOF of its origin (if there ever was one), only specalative theory.

the notion of god "poofing" into existence or ""the big bang", thus starting it all are both fath based beliefs.
Actually, the Big Bang Theory has quite a bit of supporting evidence.
Evidence for the Big Bang

But that really has nothing to do with this thread about the evidence supporting the Theory of Evolution.
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
as the bible says about god, "no beginning nor end" applies also to the universe.

there IS NO PROOF of its origin (if there ever was one), only specalative theory.

the notion of god "poofing" into existence or ""the big bang", thus starting it all are both fath based beliefs.


I disagree. You cannot create energy from no energy.

The Big Bang theory states that all matter expanded from one single point, causing the expanding Universe we see today.

It's not a faith when you have logic to back it up.

Stars supernova, which expands the universe even more. The iron on this planet and in our bodies came from stars, since the only place iron is found in the Universe is within stars or planets that have taken on the elements of the deceased star.

We come from the dust of stars, that is the very foundation of life. Just because we cannot reproduce such a situation does not mean it is not fact. It is known that if stars did not exist, neither would we.
 
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The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
So given that scientists are unable to produce life in a contolled laboratory I say this is proof that God created first life on earth. Scientists have tried everything to produce life from non life...it's one of their holy grails. Surely if life evolved on earth scientists should be able to micmic it by now. Looking at the living cell one sees a ready built factory... surely this is design.

Using that same way of arguing it could be said that since no one has been able to provide proof of god, evolution MUST have happened.

-Q
 

David M

Well-Known Member
So given that scientists are unable to produce life in a contolled laboratory I say this is proof that God created first life on earth. Scientists have tried everything to produce life from non life...it's one of their holy grails. Surely if life evolved on earth scientists should be able to micmic it by now. Looking at the living cell one sees a ready built factory... surely this is design.

Synthetic DNA has been used to produce a living species.

Thats one of the major steps to the creation of life from non-life done.
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
Synthetic DNA has been used to produce a living species.

Thats one of the major steps to the creation of life from non-life done.


Sexed seamen is one of the greatest evolvements in the dairy industry.

They take the bull's sperm and sex it, so that a heffer will birth another heffer and not a bull.

They literally take out any possibility of a mother cow birthing a bull.

The reasoning for this is simple, heffers produce milk, milk produces money.

Bull studs and their seamen are picked out based on if their early sons or daughters produce healthy, sturdy cows. Also based upon the pounds of milk the heffer can produce and healthy and good genes.

Varying from the stud in which you choose to artificially inseminate a heffer, different sticks of seamen can cost from $3 to $1500.

In order for there to be an egg, there first needs to be a chicken to birth the egg.
Where did this chicken come from?

Various forms of raptors and small predatory like raptors.

Don't deny it. We have bones!:D
 

David M

Well-Known Member
Sexed seamen is one of the greatest evolvements in the dairy industry.

They take the bull's sperm and sex it, so that a heffer will birth another heffer and not a bull.

They literally take out any possibility of a mother cow birthing a bull.

The reasoning for this is simple, heffers produce milk, milk produces money.

Bull studs and their seamen are picked out based on if their early sons or daughters produce healthy, sturdy cows. Also based upon the pounds of milk the heffer can produce and healthy and good genes.

Varying from the stud in which you choose to artificially inseminate a heffer, different sticks of seamen can cost from $3 to $1500.

In order for there to be an egg, there first needs to be a chicken to birth the egg.
Where did this chicken come from?

Various forms of raptors and small predatory like raptors.

Don't deny it. We have bones!:D

And what does this inane ramble have to do with the recent synthesis of synthetic DNA to produce a viable population?
 
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