The Sufi and the Whore

[john313]

The Sufi and the Whore



This is a tale of a sufi sheikh

Traveling with a man who lived for the sunnah’s sake.

After several hours they approached a flooded river bed.

Along the bank was a woman in red.

She said, “can you help me across the river?”

The sunni just stood there and started to quiver.

He then turned away, he did not want to look

At this scandalous woman not of the book.

The sufi walked up and said, “get on my shoulders”

He then proceeded to navigate the underwater boulders.

They hit the other bank and he set her down

With a slight bow he said wa salaam.

She offered 2 schillings, it was all she had

“I have no use for money” the sufi plainly said.

Somewhat shocked, she went on her way

The sunni obviously had something to say.

But he spoke not a word for almost an hour

They continued to walk until his face turned sour.

The sufi looked over, “what’s troubling you?”

“The woman at the river, what did you do?

To touch a woman like that is haram its clear,

But you did it anyway, are you a kafir?”

The sufi just smiled and contained his laughter

“You still carry her around? I left her at the water.

So many people think they are so smart

But they follow paper instead of their heart.

You must extinguish the self, the heart is pure

Then the laws of the Way will be perfectly clear.

On every heart the laws have been written

Unfortunately with paper, the people are smitten.

The books are important, don’t get me wrong

But the heart is able to interpret the song.

Back at the river I did what was right

I was guided by a brilliant light.

The whore has seen Our mercy and compassion

Perhaps someday she will change her profession.

If mercy and compassion you should not display

Then perhaps you should throw those papers away

The Way is clear for those with eyes

If you cannot see, then I sympathize.

If you found wisdom in these words

Maybe one day you will talk with the birds.

Until that day comes we must continue on

Spreading mercy, peace, and love to everyone.”

 

[Nehustan]

...is all I can say to that. Surely I feel like a brother caught between the two sheikhs. May I enquire as to where this poem came from????

As a little story to make you smile...the headmaster at my Public School was ex SOE from WWII....I spent enough time in his office for him to 'Alpha' knowledge of speaking to birds :sarcastic

 

[john313]

Peace,
it was written by a sufi brother i know. i am on the sufi's side on this one.

**actually i wrote it a couple days ago

 

[Jahangir]

Just read .. its fantastic, the Sufis are truly people of God. Sadly the wahabbis and extremists call those who perform good deeds like the Sufi had done "kafirs" which is something i completely disagree with.

 

[TashaN]

It's a joke more than a story ....

I think this is a story to mock other sects like Sunnah.

To touch a woman like that is haram its clear,

But you did it anyway, are you a kafir?”

The sunni shikh said Kafir to the suffi? :biglaugh:

Do you know that even a kid will know that if someone touched a woman so he is not Kafir at all.

there are some cases:

1- If he did it while his intention was sexual one so it's not allowed in Islam and it will only considered as a sin.

2- If he did it to help her anyway whether a doctor or to help her from any sort of danger so that is ok.

Then perhaps you should throw those papers away

I guess he meany by papers whether the law of Islam, Quran or hadiths... is it?

 

[TashaN]

Just read .. its fantastic, the Sufis are truly people of God. Sadly the wahabbis and extremists call those who perform good deeds like the Sufi had done "kafirs" which is something i completely disagree with.

i'm surprised how people rely in such a story to judge others directly.

BTW, what do you mean by wahabbis? is it a sect or somthing?

 

[Pardus]

Interpreted and sung often.

 

[Nehustan]

i'm surprised how people rely in such a story to judge others directly.

BTW, what do you mean by wahabbis? is it a sect or somthing?

I always took wahabbi to mean orthodox sunni muslims following (the writings of) Ibn Abd Al Wahabb. Whether or not most 'wahabbis' actually read him is moot. I have read some of his work, and it seemed fine to me (not that my opinion matters in the slightest!!!). I think with the establishment of the KSA, and Ibn Abd Al Wahab influence over the new nation, wahabbi thought is often just another word for Saudi 'Islamic' thought. Through the sponsoring of madrasa around the world by KSA, it is considered that this school has spread with the 'Taliban' phenomena attributed to it. I believe that the people often described as 'wahabbi' refer to themself as 'Salafi', wishing to follow the first generations of the religion of Muhammad. I'm sure critics would say, 'What even if they are Ummay???'

 

[TashaN]

I always took wahabbi to mean orthodox sunni muslims following (the writings of) Ibn Abd Al Wahabb. Whether or not most 'wahabbis' actually read him is moot. I have read some of his work, and it seemed fine to me (not that my opinion matters in the slightest!!!). I think with the establishment of the KSA, and Ibn Abd Al Wahab influence over the new nation, wahabbi thought is often just another word for Saudi 'Islamic' thought. Through the sponsoring of madrasa around the world by KSA, it is considered that this school has spread with the 'Taliban' phenomena attributed to it. I believe that the people often described as 'wahabbi' refer to themself as 'Salafi', wishing to follow the first generations of the religion of Muhammad. I'm sure critics would say, 'What even if they are Ummay???'

I know what wahabbi do mean but did you see anywhere around the world that a sect have been established without thier knowing?

- The sunnah in saudi arabia never claimed to be wahabbis.
- Mohammed bin abdul wahab never came up with a sect called wahabi or wahabism but he was trying to guide his people in arabia to stop worshiping idols and trees the same as what arabs where doing before Mohammed (PBUH) comes to the world.
- Moreover, Mohammed bin abdul wahab never came up with somthing new and there are proofs as letters .. etc that shows that he was discussing these issues with other scholars around the Muslim world and they did aprove his teaching and books because there was nothing wrong with it and it never conflict with the real teaching of Salafs.

 

[Nehustan]

I know what wahabbi do mean but did you see anywhere around the world that a sect have been established without thier knowing?

- The sunnah in saudi arabia never claimed to be wahabbis.
- Mohammed bin abdul wahab never came up with a sect called wahabi or wahabism but he was trying to guide his people in arabia to stop worshiping idols and trees the same as what arabs where doing before Mohammed (PBUH) comes to the world.
- Moreover, Mohammed bin abdul wahab never came up with somthing new and there are proofs as letters .. etc that shows that he was discussing these issues with other scholars around the Muslim world and they did aprove his teaching and books because there was nothing wrong with it and it never conflict with the real teaching of Salafs.

I have read his book on Tawheed, and like I said I could not fault it. I find no fault in people trying to live as the Salafs, I think maybe if I was to try an exposition of what people mean when they say 'wahabbi' is this...

Brothers decide to reject 'modernity', or at least the parts they see in conflict with Islam. They then see a global system, they see at odds with their longing for Dar As Salaam, which leads their fellow muslims away from 'true' Islam. They then become poltically radical NOT religiously radical, i.e. the things that cause fitnah and lead their brothers and sisters way from Al Haqq they rally against in action, word, or just in their heart. Most people do not see a clear truth, and are more interested in the decorations of the dunya which adorn the material modern world, and choose other ideologies rather than Islam. The brothers see this occuring to the cost of Islam and muslims suffering, and become more radical. Thus if 'Wahabbi' has any real meaning, I'd say it is as 'political' movement, rather than as a 'sect', which would be unfair. At least it is not a pseudo secular western political movement (i.e. liberal, socialist, neo-con), but one that has the sunnah as its basis.

You may not agree with the above, but I think that the brothers are engaged in politics for the Ummah, and I will not call it a sect, rather until I have evidence to the contrary (which I don't!!!) I will consider them Ahl Al Sunnah.

 

[TashaN]

I have read his book on Tawheed, and like I said I could not fault it. I find no fault in people trying to live as the Salafs, I think maybe if I was to try an exposition of what people mean when they say 'wahabbi' is this...

Brothers decide to reject 'modernity', or at least the parts they see in conflict with Islam. They then see a global system, they see at odds with their longing for Dar As Salaam, which leads their fellow muslims away from 'true' Islam. They then become poltically radical NOT religiously radical, i.e. the things that cause fitnah and lead their brothers and sisters they rally against in action, word, or just in their heart. Most people do not see a clear truth, and are more interested in the decorations of the dunya which adorn the material modern world, and choose other ideologies than Islam. The brothers see this occuring to the cost of Islam and muslims suffering, and become more radical. Thus if 'Wahabbi' has any real meaning, I'd say it is as 'political' movement, rather than as a 'sect', which would be unfair. At least it is not a pseudo secular western political movement (i.e. liberal, socialist, neo-con), but one that has the sunnah as its basis.

You may not agree with the above, but I think that the brothers are engaged in politics for the Ummah, and I will not call it a sect, rather until I have evidence to the contrary (which I don't!!!) I will consider them Ahl Al Sunnah.

You are not mistaken when you say that it influence with a political issues because we can't deny that Mohammed bin abdel wahab cooperate with bin soad in order to maintain peace and rebuild a muslim country based on the teaching of salaf the same as when our beloved prophet built a strong small country in Madinah. Moreover, Moahmmed bin abdel wahab's intention was to serve Allah and Islam and after he did his best he had to get help from a strong leader in order to spread the true islam all over again in the arabic peninsula.

 

[anders]

The many times I have read the OP story, it was always about two Buddhist monks and a woman, not necessarily of bad reputation.

 

[john313]

It's a joke more than a story ....

I think this is a story to mock other sects like Sunnah.

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The sunni shikh said Kafir to the suffi? :biglaugh:

Do you know that even a kid will know that if someone touched a woman so he is not Kafir at all.

there are some cases:

1- If he did it while his intention was sexual one so it's not allowed in Islam and it will only considered as a sin.

2- If he did it to help her anyway whether a doctor or to help her from any sort of danger so that is ok.



I guess he meany by papers whether the law of Islam, Quran or hadiths... is it?

salaam,
actually i have personally heard many people claiming to be muslims call others kafirs for much less than what the sufi did because they do not understand.
the papers refers to whatever books he has and does not understand. what it means is that if he cannot understand them then he may as well not have them because they are useless to him.

 

[john313]

The many times I have read the OP story, it was always about two Buddhist monks and a woman, not necessarily of bad reputation.

salaam,
i read the story a while back and it was just 2 men-it did not say what they were, i modified it and added conversation. the original story that i read i think was like 3 lines long. it has probably been modified to fit people of different walks of life.

wa salaam

 

[TashaN]

salaam,
actually i have personally heard many people claiming to be muslims call others kafirs for much less than what the sufi did because they do not understand.
the papers refers to whatever books he has and does not understand. what it means is that if he cannot understand them then he may as well not have them because they are useless to him.

Brother john,

Please think with me...

Now do you think it's fair to say a sunni did that or a suffi did that or that? it's more like a joke rather than a story.

Is it fair if this story is right to blame all suunah because of that guy?

what do you think bro.?

I believe there are good and evil in both sects but i never agree to use such a story to blame a sect whatever it is.

 

[john313]

Brother john,

Please think with me...

Now do you think it's fair to say a sunni did that or a suffi did that or that? it's more like a joke rather than a story.

Is it fair if this story is right to blame all suunah because of that guy?

what do you think bro.?

I believe there are good and evil in both sects but i never agree to use such a story to blame a sect whatever it is.

salaam,
i think you have misunderstood the poem. it does not blame a sect for anything. it is simply a guy that does not understand the true teachings and does not know how to use reason to interpret the laws. it is not a joke whatsoever, but everyone will interpret it differently. if people cannot deal with it they might interpret it as a joke rather than searching for some meaning by removing whatever veil might be there. from MY experiences, the sunnis i have personally come in contact with would react like the sunni in the story and the sufis i have met would react as the sufi in the story. this is not all inclusive, nor was it intended to be. it is simply something that was written from a basic old tale and my recent experiences. i have blamed the sunnah for nothing, i only feel that people should think and use reason rather than blind following something someone else may or may not have done 1400 years ago ni a different environment.
like the recent guy(he happened to be sunni) who seemed to look down upon me because i do not follow the sunnah of eating meat. he thought and his companions believed that to follow the sunnah we have to kill animals and eat their flesh. reason, logic, and science tells us we do not have to and it is healthier not to do so.
again, this poem is not meant to be all inclusive, it is only a tale that has wisdom for those with eyes.
peace

 

[TashaN]

salaam,
i think you have misunderstood the poem. it does not blame a sect for anything. it is simply a guy that does not understand the true teachings and does not know how to use reason to interpret the laws. it is not a joke whatsoever, but everyone will interpret it differently. if people cannot deal with it they might interpret it as a joke rather than searching for some meaning by removing whatever veil might be there. from MY experiences, the sunnis i have personally come in contact with would react like the sunni in the story and the sufis i have met would react as the sufi in the story. this is not all inclusive, nor was it intended to be. it is simply something that was written from a basic old tale and my recent experiences. i have blamed the sunnah for nothing, i only feel that people should think and use reason rather than blind following something someone else may or may not have done 1400 years ago ni a different environment.
like the recent guy(he happened to be sunni) who seemed to look down upon me because i do not follow the sunnah of eating meat. he thought and his companions believed that to follow the sunnah we have to kill animals and eat their flesh. reason, logic, and science tells us we do not have to and it is healthier not to do so.
again, this poem is not meant to be all inclusive, it is only a tale that has wisdom for those with eyes.
peace

I believe that in personal life but not government issues there is nothing wrong with following sunnah and excatly what prophet Mohammed was doing before 1400 years but we can't force others to do the same as we do so far.

regarding to the meat i didn't get what's the point? here is a misconception not about only sunnah but islam in general. Some unknowlegable people think that if you didn't eat meat so you do not follow the sunnah and they don't even know what is the sunnh.

1- Sunnah is what prophet Mohammed (PBUH) was acting, saying, in his life.
2- If you went though some hadiths you will notice that prophet Mohammed was eating meat so rarely because he was so poor and as his wife Aisha was saying "his food was the 2 blacks" in old arabic the two blacks means "dates and water" ONLY, and even sometimes he wasn't finding anything to eat.
3- it's ok in islam if you don't eat meat at all.


Thanks for the reply and i hope that we can get benefit from each other brother john.