The State of Hell and Heaven

[Fool]

is hell based on service to self, or selfish type?


heaven is based on service to all, or selfless type?

 

[Moonjuice]

The grammar is so off, I'm not sure anyone is going to understand what you are asking here.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

is hell based on service to self, or selfish type?


heaven is based on service to all, or selfless type?

I can't see extremes of either being at all heavenly.

 

[Nakosis]

is hell based on service to self, or selfish type?


heaven is based on service to all, or selfless type?

Me, I suspect selflessness is an illusion of self.
Heaven may simply be a matter of letting go of that illusion.

 

[Fool]

The grammar is so off, I'm not sure anyone is going to understand what you are asking here.

service to self is hell? selfish?

service to other as self is heaven, selfless? altruistic?

 

[Fool]

Me, I suspect selflessness is an illusion of self.
Heaven may simply be a matter of letting go of that illusion.

you believe altruism is an illusion?


you have a want another person has a need. do you selfishly maintain the want in the face of a need?

 

[Nakosis]

you believe altruism is an illusion?


you have a want another person has a need. do you selfishly maintain the want in the face of a need?

I do.

My need to be useful. My need to see myself as a "good" person.
I think it is a lie to think the individual in the act of altruism somehow circumvents their own desires.

 

[Fool]

I do.

My need to be useful. My need to see myself as a "good" person.
I think it is a lie to think the individual in the act of altruism somehow circumvents their own desires.

the difference in desire is a "want" vs the "need" in another. self is forgotten and the desire is for the well being of other as self. the cessation is not about desire. its about a need in contrast to a want.


one deserves their own need be met before self can actually help another without putting self at risk. robbing peter to pay paul just shifts the problem to another.

 

[Nakosis]

the difference in desire is a "want" vs the "need" in another. self is forgotten and the desire is for the well being of other as self. the cessation is not about desire.

Sure, that is where I think the illusion lies. Just because the self is forgotten doesn't mean it is not there.

 

[Fool]

Sure, that is where I think the illusion lies. Just because the self is forgotten doesn't mean it is not there.

the illusion is in the separation based on the form(maya) and not the act(lila)


Many stories describe the difference between heaven and hell. In one, a person who dies is met by the heavenly gate keeper. "What does hell look like?" wonders the newly deceased. She is taken to a room with a large table surrounded by people. The table is set with delectable things to eat and drink. But the people are continuously angry and miserable, starving because their arms are encased in locked, metal sleeves and they cannot bend their arms to bring their hands to their mouths no matter how hard they try.

Heaven is the room next door. It also has a table filled with food and the people in this room also wear sleeves over their arms. But the people in this room are happy and calm, for they have learned to feed each other.

 

[Nakosis]

the illusion is in the separation based on the form(maya) and not the act(lila)


Many stories describe the difference between heaven and hell. In one, a person who dies is met by the heavenly gate keeper. "What does hell look like?" wonders the newly deceased. She is taken to a room with a large table surrounded by people. The table is set with delectable things to eat and drink. But the people are continuously angry and miserable, starving because their arms are encased in locked, metal sleeves and they cannot bend their arms to bring their hands to their mouths no matter how hard they try.

Heaven is the room next door. It also has a table filled with food and the people in this room also wear sleeves over their arms. But the people in this room are happy and calm, for they have learned to feed each other.

If separation is the illusion, then is this not just God, feeding themselves?

 

[dybmh]

is hell based on service to self, or selfish type?


heaven is based on service to all, or selfless type?

"service to all" includes service to rapists, murderers, and all variety of scoundrel?

"service to self" includes getting good sleep, eating healthy food, wearing clean clothes, etc?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

is hell based on service to self, or selfish type?


heaven is based on service to all, or selfless type?

Yes.

By George, you got it.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

"service to all" includes service to rapists, murderers, and all variety of scoundrel?

"service to self" includes getting good sleep, eating healthy food, wearing clean clothes, etc?

Service to all means doing the best for everyone, including rapists and murderers..
That would be something like rehabilitation or prison. That is in their best interest. Sure, they don’t agree, but they are wrong. They disagree only because they are selfish and wish not to be of service to others.

Service to self means not choosing selfishness over altruism.
You must take care of your earthly needs first, but not at the expense of others.
Otherwise you will be unable to be of service to others.

 

[dybmh]

Service to all means doing the best for everyone, including rapists and murderers..
That would be something like rehabilitation or prison. That is in their best interest. Sure, they don’t agree, but they are wrong. They disagree only because they are selfish and wish not to be of service to others.

Service to self means not choosing selfishness over altruism.
You must take care of your earthly needs first, but not at the expense of others.
Otherwise you will be unable to be of service to others.

@Fool, is this ^^ an accurate description of what you mean by "service to all", the rapists and murders are in jail accountable to the justice system of their locality?

@Jeremiah Ames , you said "they don't agree" So, the definition of service to all might be a little different depending on whom is the speaker and who is the audience... It's pretty important, imo, to keep this mind when conversing with someone named "Fool". One wouldn't want to be fooled by making assumptions about what "service to all" means. It could be the speaker's or the audience's mindset is closer aligned or sympathetic to rapists and murders. More clarification would be good.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

@Fool, is this ^^ an accurate description of what you mean by "service to all", the rapists and murders are in jail accountable to the justice system of their locality?

@Jeremiah Ames , you said "they don't agree" So, the definition of service to all might be a little different depending on whom is the speaker and who is the audience... It's pretty important, imo, to keep this mind when conversing with someone named "Fool". One wouldn't want to be fooled by making assumptions about what "service to all" means. It could be the speaker's or the audience's mindset is closer aligned or sympathetic to rapists and murders. More clarification would be good.

As one who allegedly is following Judaism, I thought you would know better.

But, I tell you what. You win.
Everything you say is correct.
Thank you for correcting my ignorance.

 

[dybmh]

As one who allegedly is following Judaism, I thought you would know better.

But, I tell you what. You win.
Everything you say is correct.
Thank you for correcting my ignorance.

I wasn't trying to correct you. I'm sorry if it came off that way.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I wasn't trying to correct you. I'm sorry if it came off that way.

It is ok.

All is fine.

You are very kind.

 

[Fool]

@Fool, is this ^^ an accurate description of what you mean by "service to all", the rapists and murders are in jail accountable to the justice system of their locality?

@Jeremiah Ames , you said "they don't agree" So, the definition of service to all might be a little different depending on whom is the speaker and who is the audience... It's pretty important, imo, to keep this mind when conversing with someone named "Fool". One wouldn't want to be fooled by making assumptions about what "service to all" means. It could be the speaker's or the audience's mindset is closer aligned or sympathetic to rapists and murders. More clarification would be good.

psychological maturity and physical maturity are not the same thing. So we don't consider it for a minute when we restrain young humans from hurting themselves and others. So yes, there is nothing wrong with placing someone in a confined area; so they can't harm themselves or others, no matter the age. If you're doing it to punish them, it's really not effective. Most of the incarcerated are inside because of their service to self.

A loving and mature person wouldn't think twice about separating two fighting children and sending one or both to their rooms to think about what they done

 

[Fool]

If separation is the illusion, then is this not just God, feeding themselves?

The illusion is the contrast between this form vs other form as self, the appearance of space between, but God is all and in all. So yes it is the all feeding the All and vice versa. I am that I am