The Speed of Light

[Grandliseur]

Ref 20

You should have stopped with the first sentence.

You're no fun!

I love this kind of science so much. Big SF fan, big physics fan. Always interested in the LHC and their findings.

 

[sayak83]

I am ignorant to the theory of relativity. Can you lay this out in layman’s terms.,., explaining why the flashlight beam is not traveling faster than light-?

Thanks in advance
-

Maybe this will help?
Relativity Made easy

 

[Grandliseur]

Ref 20

You should have stopped with the first sentence.

Another thought:
Isn't the point of known, understood ignorance, the point where ideas no matter how far out - should be put into the frying pan to see if they cook?!

It is not only scientists who have ideas. I have one about time travel that I think is rock solid, but it also shows it to be impossible, except for what happens at the speed of light where a person doesn't feel time and the outside universe does - so that a sense of going forward is a simplistic type of time travel. However, going back in time I believe to be impossible.

No need to mention that our fundamental particles don't seem to have this problem in some high energy experiments.

 

[sayak83]

I am ignorant to the theory of relativity. Can you lay this out in layman’s terms.,., explaining why the flashlight beam is not traveling faster than light-?

Thanks in advance
-

This may also be useful
Time is Real or Illusion?

 

[sayak83]

Ref 20

Another thought:
Isn't the point of known, understood ignorance, the point where ideas no matter how far out - should be put into the frying pan to see if they cook?!

It is not only scientists who have ideas. I have one about time travel that I think is rock solid, but it also shows it to be impossible, except for what happens at the speed of light where a person doesn't feel time and the outside universe does - so that a sense of going forward is a simplistic type of time travel. However, going back in time I believe to be impossible.

No need to mention that our fundamental particles don't seem to have this problem in some high energy experiments.

Of course, find new ideas to ponder about every day. It's what keeps interest in the world alive.

 

[Grandliseur]

Of course, find new ideas to ponder about every day. It's what keeps interest in the world alive.

I just love physics. And, the question about how light propagates through space-time has always interested me.

 

[sayak83]

I just love physics. And, the question about how light propagates through space-time has always interested me.

What's the difficulty there? Light is a wave disturbance in electric and magnetic fields and propagates like a wave does.

 

[Grandliseur]

What's the difficulty there? Light is a wave disturbance in electric and magnetic fields and propagates like a wave does.

You're right. I just plum forgot. I am getting old. I read that many years ago. Ups.
Can you explain what the space time field is, how it spreads out to create space?

 

[sayak83]

You're right. I just plum forgot. I am getting old. I read that many years ago. Ups.
Can you explain what the space time field is, how it spreads out to create space?

Never heard of space time field.

 

[Skwim]

Perhaps light can go faster than the current value of c.

"Scientists have apparently broken the universe’s speed limit.

For generations, physicists believed there is nothing faster than light moving through a vacuum — a speed of 186,000 miles per second.

But in an experiment in Princeton, N.J., physicists sent a pulse of laser light through cesium vapor so quickly that it left the chamber before it had even finished entering.

The pulse traveled 310 times the distance it would have covered if the chamber had contained a vacuum.

Researchers say it is the most convincing demonstration yet that the speed of light — supposedly an ironclad rule of nature — can be pushed beyond known boundaries, at least under certain laboratory circumstances.
​

<snip>

Not everyone is convinced the NEC scientists did what they claim.

Aephraim Steinberg, a physicist at the University of Toronto, said the light particles coming out of the cesium chamber may not have been the same ones that entered, so he questions whether the speed of light was broken.

Still, the work is important, he said: “The interesting thing is how did they manage to produce light that looks exactly like something that didn’t get there yet?”
source​

.

 

[Grandliseur]

Never heard of space time field.

https://www.quora.com/Is-spacetime-a-field

I know I have forgotten a lot. Anyway, here is a link about it. I am not sure I ever understood what it was, exactly.

 

[Grandliseur]

Perhaps light can go faster than the current value of c.

"Scientists have apparently broken the universe’s speed limit.

For generations, physicists believed there is nothing faster than light moving through a vacuum — a speed of 186,000 miles per second.

But in an experiment in Princeton, N.J., physicists sent a pulse of laser light through cesium vapor so quickly that it left the chamber before it had even finished entering.

The pulse traveled 310 times the distance it would have covered if the chamber had contained a vacuum.

Researchers say it is the most convincing demonstration yet that the speed of light — supposedly an ironclad rule of nature — can be pushed beyond known boundaries, at least under certain laboratory circumstances.
​

<snip>

Not everyone is convinced the NEC scientists did what they claim.

Aephraim Steinberg, a physicist at the University of Toronto, said the light particles coming out of the cesium chamber may not have been the same ones that entered, so he questions whether the speed of light was broken.

Still, the work is important, he said: “The interesting thing is how did they manage to produce light that looks exactly like something that didn’t get there yet?”
source​

.

This one is a wait and see thing. Once before they claimed this in another experiment, yet, it was debunked.
However, if it is true under special circumstances, how much worth would it be under ordinary circumstances?!
Again, only time and experimentation will tell.

 

[sayak83]

https://www.quora.com/Is-spacetime-a-field

I know I have forgotten a lot. Anyway, here is a link about it. I am not sure I ever understood what it was, exactly.

As far as I understand, there is space-time as a 4D space and the gravitational field is given by the value of curvature of this space-time. Spaces have topological properties ; and scalar, vector and tensor fields are usually defined on these spaces.

However @Polymath257 will know more on this.

 

[Grandliseur]

Ref 33

As far as I understand, there is space-time as a 4D space and the gravitational field is given by the value of curvature of this space-time. Spaces have topological properties ; and scalar, vector and tensor fields are usually defined on these spaces.

However @Polymath257 will know more on this.

Yes, I should just explain that your comment about light - brought back to me (I am a little slow at times when memory needs to dig up things) that light only is a small fraction of the electromagnetic spectrum where we have ultraviolet, light in its variety of colors, infrared, and what might colloquially be called radio waves.

I also realized that just because it is a wave function, my question was exactly about this, how does this wave propagate in the space-time field. This is what I have never read anything about.

I know about 4D space, but isn't this the point! Why do we have a field of four dimensions, and how does light move in it, what is it moving in.

Sorry, for being slow, and perhaps it might be better if I stop now before I confuse everybody.

 

[Polymath257]

As far as I understand, there is space-time as a 4D space and the gravitational field is given by the value of curvature of this space-time. Spaces have topological properties ; and scalar, vector and tensor fields are usually defined on these spaces.

However @Polymath257 will know more on this.

In the link he pointed to, the 'spacetime field' is simply the 4D metric (the local distance function). Since this is what describes the curvature of spacetime, it is at least somewhat appropriate usage. When quantized, this 'field' is what gives gravitons.

 

[Polymath257]

Ref 33

Yes, I should just explain that your comment about light - brought back to me (I am a little slow at times when memory needs to dig up things) that light only is a small fraction of the electromagnetic spectrum where we have ultraviolet, light in its variety of colors, infrared, and what might colloquially be called radio waves.

I also realized that just because it is a wave function, my question was exactly about this, how does this wave propagate in the space-time field. This is what I have never read anything about.

I know about 4D space, but isn't this the point! Why do we have a field of four dimensions, and how does light move in it, what is it moving in.

Sorry, for being slow, and perhaps it might be better is I stop now before I confuse everybody.

Well, this propagation is described by the Maxwell equations for electromagnetism. As Einstein pointed out, no 'ether' is required for the propagation of light.

Dually, we can also see the propagation as simply being the transfer of photons: the 'particles' of light.

 

[Grandliseur]

Well, this propagation is described by the Maxwell equations for electromagnetism. As Einstein pointed out, no 'ether' is required for the propagation of light.

Dually, we can also see the propagation as simply being the transfer of photons: the 'particles' of light.

I am just a bit ornery, perhaps.

That is why, I am wondering if in the propagation of photons, since we have the space-time field where we have the probability quantum effect of particles popping in and out of existence, a question of where this photon, wave of electromagnetic energy, needs to work its way through this 'sea of probability matter' (sorry for the poor phrasing) and that this activity might be affecting the top speed of light in a vacuum.

I think I am going to quit now.

 

[Polymath257]

I am just be ornery, perhaps.

That is why, I am wondering if in the propagation of photons, since we have the space-time field where we have the probability quantum effect of particles popping in and out of existence, a question of where this photon, wave of electromagnetic energy, needs to work its way through this 'sea of probability matter' (sorry for the poor phrasing) and that this activity might be affecting the top speed of light in a vacuum.

I think I am going to quit now.

And there is a sense in which this is correct. The main issue is that *all* photons are virtual photons, so they are creating the 'haze' around them as they propagate. That is what Feynmann diagrams are all about, actually.

 

[Tmac]

Obviously, I have no clue.

Did you know that the speed of light you quote is the unfettered speed. Light has been slowed down in several experiments to a fair crawl.

I would speculate that when we have about 10 or 11 dimensions of space once we go into the scientific theories, string, and all those quarks that have to keep interacting to hold together our matter, and the quantum void of probability particles in the space-time field, that perhaps the speed has an upper limit pertaining to these matters. Light does need to travel through the space-time field in which these interactions occur. Since things are taking place there, I see light as a ship sailing through water which has resistance, and the faster you go, the harder the going gets. With light, a balance would then happen to create a speed limit when passing through this space-time field.

Ups! Just my ruminations. Nothing but assumptions.

You know what I find so incredible, besides everything you wrote making sense, the ideas you put forth are so far from the mind of the average human being that they would think you are crazy.

 

[Grandliseur]

And there is a sense in which this is correct. The main issue is that *all* photons are virtual photons, so they are creating the 'haze' around them as they propagate. That is what Feynmann diagrams are all about, actually.

Thank you. That was fun.

There has to be some reason for the speed limit?!