The "something can't come from nothing" argument

[allfoak]

Great story, terrible physics.

Nothing is obviously not nothing.
It is undefinable but not nothing.

The closest that science has come to defining it is by calling it a "field" or as some have said: " a Great Mind".

What that boy built came from inside himself.
It came from something unseen and undefinable.

 

[1robin]

Do you understand the laws of physics?
Nothing is obviously not nothing.
It is undefinable but not nothing.

I hope I am familiar or competent with most. My degree was in math and required many calculus based physics classes. The Quantum is quite a mystery but then again it is to everyone.

Nothing is obviously nothing. Nothing is the absence of being, not the absence of a description.

The closest that science has come to defining it is by calling it a "field" or as some have said: " a Great Mind".

No science I have ever heard suggests that. It is not even a scientific proposition. It is a philosophical one. Science is the study of stuff. Nothing has no stuff to do science on.

 

[allfoak]

I hope I am familiar or competent with most. My degree was in math and required many calculus based physics classes. The Quantum is quite a mystery but then again it is to everyone.

Nothing is obviously nothing. Nothing is the absence of being, not the absence of a description.

No science I have ever heard suggests that. It is not even a scientific proposition. It is a philosophical one. Science is the study of stuff. Nothing has no stuff to do science on.

I don't know what we are talking about anymore.
There is no such thing as nothing.
Where is it?

 

[1robin]

I don't know what we are talking about anymore.
There is no such thing as nothing.
Where is it?

Your are actually asking for the coordinate where no thing is? That is what nothing means, no-thing. I know you do not know what I am talking about because what I am talking about is true. I wonder if you know what your talking about. Only things have physical locations and properties. Nothing lacks any property beyond non-existence. Come off it man.

Nothing is obviously not nothing.

That is not just wrong. It can't possibly be true. It makes no sense and contradicts it's self.

 

[allfoak]

This is a ridiculous argument.
Energy is all there is.

 

[idav]

This is a ridiculous argument.
Energy is all there is.

I like this but actually the universe is also made up of spacetime.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I did quite well in all of my English classes.....thank you for pointing that out.
My instructors told me to my face...I have a talent.

As for you....you really are priceless.....as in no value.

This discussion can be speculation.
And assumption is a useful tool....properly applied.

What's holding you back?

Then I was correct. You don't know that you don't know. If you "assume" then you're coming to a conclusion without the benefit of evidence to confirm or deny your position even though time and time again you've been shown how wrong you are. If you speculate then you at least leave room for evidence to falsify your position. This is why I didn't "assume" you knew the difference and provided the definition of both to you. I'm "speculating" that now since you understand the definition of both words you'll use them correctly in the future. Only time will tell though.

 

[allfoak]

I like this but actually the universe is also made up of spacetime.

Yes of course.
Movement.

 

[1robin]

This is a ridiculous argument.
Energy is all there is.

Then energy created energy, morality, and math. Yeah that works. Also all energy density equations and facts are wrong. Take that into even a community college physics class and see if you pass.

 

[allfoak]

Then energy created energy, morality, and math. Yeah that works. Also all energy density equations and facts are wrong. Take that into even a community college physics class and see if you pass.

That's two very bold statements.
Since i can't even verify the things you are saying,
I will assume that you are just a crazy Christian and don't know what you are talking about and move on.

 

[idav]

Then energy created energy, morality, and math. Yeah that works. Also all energy density equations and facts are wrong. Take that into even a community college physics class and see if you pass.

What in tarnation you talking about? Extrapolating much?

 

[1robin]

What in tarnation you talking about? Extrapolating much?

If energy is all there is, everything I said is necessarily is true. But it gets worse. Using the claim that energy is all there as a statement which suggests that nothing does not exist is to claim something even worse.

1. That nothing does not exist which is what that claim was supposed to disprove.

 

[1robin]

That's two very bold statements.
Since i can't even verify the things you are saying,
I will assume that you are just a crazy Christian and don't know what you are talking about and move on.

My degree says exactly the opposite and I place more reliance in the college that sent a rocket to the moon than you. If you do not get it that says way more about you than me.

Btw if energy is all hat exists then the truth of that statement does not exist.

 

[allfoak]

My degree says exactly the opposite and I place more reliance in the college that sent a rocket to the moon than you. If you do not get it that says way more about you than me.

The only thing that gets in the way of me learning anything is my education.

 

[1robin]

The only thing that gets in the way of me learning anything is my education.

That can certainly be the case. Nothing destroyed my confidence in theoretical scientific scholarship than going to faculty speeches after hours.

 

[idav]

If energy is all there is, everything I said is necessarily is true. But it gets worse. Using the claim that energy is all there as a statement which suggests that nothing does not exist is to claim something even worse.

1. That nothing does not exist which is what that claim was supposed to disprove.

Ok, well nothing does not exist.

 

[allfoak]

Ok, well nothing does not exist.

I'm glad we cleared that up!

 

[1robin]

I'm glad we cleared that up!

I had no idea it was ever in contention. The idea that only energy exists as being wrong is equally non-contentious. Your getting the semantics associated with the density of energy and the rest of reality confused.

 

[Thief]

This is not the dichotomy that physics contemplates. It is not whether matter or spirit is primary. It is whether mind or matter is primary. Physics not any science can study spirit so little commentary on it can be made, but much in science (like some of Planck's work) show that mind is primary and matter derivative.

This is an example of what I meant. Saying spirit is primary to matter is just raw speculations. Saying mind is primary to matter is something that can be studied and perhaps verified one day. A claim ought to have roots in some foundation.

Spirit as primary....yeah.

God as Creator?.....yeah

 

[allfoak]

mind over matter he says...