FunctionalAtheist
Hammer of Reason
Your defense of a perfect god, is that he realized his creation was faulty and sought to fix it?
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The snake didn´t lie, God cheated
- Thread starter Me Myself
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FunctionalAtheist
Hammer of Reason
Ah, now I get it. God screwed the pooch when it came to creation. And Jesus had to come in and fix it. Bravo!
FunctionalAtheist
Hammer of Reason
Very good point. Might I add that if he was the only one, then he was talking to himself. Woohoo, get the white coat!
No. God was Not talking to himself. Jesus was the first creation in heaven by God according to Revelation 3 v 14.
So, since all things, other than Jesus, come through Jesus, then God was talking to his only-begotten heavenly Son.
FunctionalAtheist
Hammer of Reason
I would like to revise and adjust my previouis statement. Jesus is god, god was talking to his son. God's son is Jesus. God was talking to god, jesus was talking to jesus, god was talking to jesus, jesus was talking to god. We know have 4 conversations and the need for two white-coats.
Seriously though, why would god need to verbally communicate with Jesus? Or more to the point, why record such a nutty conversation in the devine record? Wouldn't that confuse some? Why wouldn't god want to be as clear and concise as possilbe? Wouldn't that allow for someone to poke fun at that guy? What is the benefit?
Satan was a covering cherub [ Ezekiel 28 vs 11-17]
Satan turned himself in to a Satan and a Devil by his own desire or own choice.
Satan got A&E to follow him. Since we were all born after they sinned we can not fix ourselves. We can not stop sinning. If we could stop sinning we would not die.
Although 'death' is the price we pay for sins, [ Romans 6 vs 23,7] we still can not resurrect oneself or another. We need someone who can resurrect us. Because of Jesus perfect ransom for us, Jesus can and will resurrect us. - Rev. 1 v 18; Acts 24 v 15
There is No Scripture that teaches Jesus is God.
Scriptural teachings became mixed with non-biblical religious-myth teachings such as trinity, and a literal forever burning, and a soul that does not die when Scripture teaches the soul can be killed and die.- Ezekiel 18 vs 4,20; Acts 3 v 23.
Let's say you as a father had a family business. You decided to take your son into your business, would you need to communicate with him?
God as Father had the business of creation. God, in Genesis, shows us that he used his Son in the creation business. That does not make the Son as Creator but that God was creating through his only-begotten heavenly Son. -Proverbs 8 vs 22,30,31
I guess the benefit, so to speak, would be so enemies of God would not care enough to know. Anyone who wants to know what the Bible really teaches can come to that accurate knowledge today.- Acts 17 vs 11, 26 ,30 ,31
FunctionalAtheist
Hammer of Reason
Why can't we stop sinning? What is sin? My interpretation is that, according to biblical theology, sin is violating god's will. So why can't we stop sinning?
Even at the birth of a child a parent knows its leanings will be toward wrongdoing.
When Adam was originally created, Adam was created with a perfectly healthy sound heart, mind and body. Meaning Adam's leanings were upright and just.
Since we were all born after Adam lost his healthy human perfection we too are imperfect. Adam, as our family head, passed down to us his then imperfect state.
Adam had one law to obey. Out of all the trees on earth don't eat from only one tree.
By deliberately disobeying God's law Adam sinned.
When we break or disobey men's laws it's called a crime.
Breaking God's laws or standards is sin, or disobeying God's will is sin.
We are innocent of what Adam did, but we are still responsible for our own actions.
Our imperfection keeps us from sinning un-intentionally, or by mistake, by accident.
We can choose to willfully sin or not, but still we sin by mistake.
We can practice sin on purpose, or choose not to practice sinning, but we still can't stop making sinful mistakes by accident.
The good news is that our situation, our sinful nature, is temporary.
The passing of time has allowed for us to be born.
If Adam and Eve would have never had children we would simply not be here.
God's original purpose was to have earth populated by descendants [us] of A&E.
Time has not only allowed for us to be here, but also to choose who we would like as Sovereign over us. We can choose to live by the 'Golden Rule' or not. Choose to live by Jesus new commandment on love, or not.- John 13 vs 34,35.
During Jesus' coming 1000-year reign over earth, mankind on earth can gain the original healthy human perfection, the sinless nature, that Adam originally had on earth. We can keep that upright perfection not only for a thousand years but forever in everlasting life on a paradisaic earth. In other words, Jesus' millennial reign over earth will undo all the harm that human imperfection has brought upon earth.
- Revelation 21 vs 4,5
As with Adam and Eve, God does Not force us to sin.
God forewarned in Eden that sin [breaking God's law ] leads to death.
Satan challenges all of us [Job 2 vs 4,5 ] that touch our flesh and bone [loose health ] and we would turn away from God. Both Job and Jesus proved Satan the liar that he is and so can we.
Time not only allowed for us to be born, but settle any issues as to who can best be sovereign over us. Man has dominated man to man's hurt or injury. - Ecc. 8 vs 9, 11
It is God who will bring to ruin those ruining earth. - Rev. 11 v 18 B; Psalm 92 v 7
FunctionalAtheist
Hammer of Reason
Ok, not fair!!! You must realize how frustrating and difficult it is to argue with 1.7 billion versions of the same argument. If anyone can come to that accurate knowledge why can't I find two belivers that have both come to the 'same' accurate knowledge? Some take it absolutly literal, and still don't see it the same. Some think this part is literal, that part is symbolic, but can't agree on which parts are which. This in and of itself is a substantial loss of credibility.
FunctionalAtheist
Hammer of Reason
Eh, no!!! What do you mean lean toward wrong doing? Crying for momma? spilling milk? Making a mess? Is this sin?
The new father placed his children in the safety of their crib, where all their needs were met. They were perfect, flawless. And they were without fault. They did not even know what sin was, they did not know good from evil, right from wrong. They had not even bee told there were such things.
Now the father, being all powerful and all knowing, and loving them, provided for them a dozen toys. Bright, fun, enjoyable. And he placed the toys in the crib with them. And he said behold, all of these wonderful toys I have given you. You may play with any of them you wish. Except this one I'm placing right here between the two of you, that one you YOU SHALL NOT PLAY WITH! For if you do you will no longer be perfect.
Then the father, being all powerful and all knowing, placed a deadly snake in the crib with his children. And even though he can see all, and nothing is hidden from him, he turned his back on his children and walked out.
Now the children, being ignorant of good an evil, right and wrong, not knowing what will was or that sin existed, being absolutly perfect and completly ignorant at the same time, played with the toys. Then the snake said play with this one, it's right here next to you, your father certainly isn't paying attention, and if you do, you will go from being absolutly perfect to being even better. And they, not knowing good and evil, and knowing what law was, not even knowing what perfect meant, and having a neglective father, played with the toy.
Then the father came back and said you little basterds, be damned!
Now, the moral of this story is that god loves us so much we should do whatever he wants us to!
Now please point out where I am making substantive exagerations.
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
Actually, since God passed down that sin to us, yes it actually does mean that he forces us to.
We are Not forced to deliberately sin.
Father Adam, as our family head, chose disobedience against God's will.
Adam passed down imperfection to us. - Romans 5 vs 12-19
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
We are forced to have a sinful nature before we commit a single act or have a single coherent thought.
the actions of Adam should not be paid for by me, nor you, since they were not our actions; you making that point essentially underlines mine that we are forced to be sinful. Adam 'passing down' that sin being passed is the act of God, which we cannot resist nor have any say in. And Adam certainly never decided to pass it down. God never told him that would happen. And if he had been given the choice to pass it down after the Fall and all that happened to him... you think he would have said yes??
That's 'forced'
the actions of Adam should not be paid for by me, nor you, since they were not our actions; you making that point essentially underlines mine that we are forced to be sinful. Adam 'passing down' that sin being passed is the act of God, which we cannot resist nor have any say in. And Adam certainly never decided to pass it down. God never told him that would happen. And if he had been given the choice to pass it down after the Fall and all that happened to him... you think he would have said yes??
That's 'forced'
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Future tense. A parent knows the child's leanings WILL BE toward wrongdoing.
Adam and Eve were created as adults not minors.
They were not a married boy and girl but man and woman- Genesis 2 v 24
What was there not to understand about you eat, you die ?
The bad consequences were the sad result of their disobedience.
Yes, God loves us and doing what he wants us to do is in our best interest.
Mankind's history shows disobedience has led to man dominating man to man's injury or hurt. Whereas God's Golden Rule and Jesus new commandment [Jn 13 vs 34,35] results in our best interests now and forever and ever and ever.
We are at the threshold of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth when Jesus will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.
If you had a beautiful house that became filled with rodents could you enjoy and feel safe in your home, or would you destroy your beautiful home, or exterminate the destructive rodents ?
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
He's just not gonna get it.
It's a theologized piece of coming-of-age etiology. This thread is a joke.
We are not forced to give in, so to speak, to our imperfect human nature.
We are not forced to turn away from divine standards.
We pay for our own actions [ responsible for one's own actions ]
Our inherited imperfection makes us prone to sin, and sin transmits sin and death.
It is because we can not stop sinning that God send Jesus to earth for us.
Our death pays for our sins, there are no post-mortem penalties,
but we can not resurrect oneself or another.
-Romans 6 vs 23,7
Our sinful nature is only temporary.
After being resurrected we can have a sinless nature.
Those alive on earth at the coming 'time of separation' [Matthew 25 vs 31,32] can remain alive on earth right into the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth, and keep right on living on earth without the prospect of every having to die but gain everlasting life forever on a paradisaic earth.