The Seven Moral Rules across "all" human societies

[oldbadger]

this gets at something I was thinking in reading about this...the tests involved seem to test ideal behavior in an ideal context, separate from the actual network of social cooperation...how do people act in actual social situations where it involves not only themselves, but actual family, friends, enemies, competitors and so on.

The actual context affects how people will actually make those choices...the outcomes do not have to be beneficial to everyone, or even anyone, and might still be following the seven rules...

Absolutely!
Self-righteous folks like to pin a morality badge for all to see, and often 'moralise' about others.

The truth needs to be unzipped and spilled out, which means that words like 'moral' must be exposed for what they are, impostors.

 

[tayla]

These solutions or cooperative behaviors are plausible candidates for universal moral rules, and that morality-as-cooperation could provide the unified theory of morality that anthropology has hitherto lacked.

Perhaps morality-as-cooperation goes too far. But, in my opinion, certainly morality-as-don't-harm-others *should* be accepted as the minimum for a moral society.

Certainly these 7 rules from the article you link to are examples of morality-as-don't-harm-others (as well as of morality-as-cooperation): help your family, help your group, return favors, be brave, defer to superiors, divide resources fairly, and respect others' property.

I suppose the added information from this article is that there is evolutionary value embedded within these rules.

 

[tayla]

I see morality more as a philosophical question than a scientific one. What the scientists measured is more social behaviour than morality.

Yes. Should social studies be considered science or philosophy? I think the distinction is that philosophy doesn't have as good of data. Probably all of social science shoud be considered as philosophy since the data can never be as trustworthy as with the hard sciences in which the scientific method can be used.

 

[tayla]

many kinds of social-co-operation have been utterly despicable.
One example of many...... German citizen co-operating with the Gestapo circa 1944.

Very good to raise counter examples. Thank you.

 

[tayla]

Although I can see how such values might be seen as being so useful in many societies, I think many of our problems stem from one particular one - defer to superiors - when it might be obvious in small groups - skills, leadership, ability to survive, etc. - but these days tends to be a little more difficult, especially where it is down to power or wealth so often - but then many of us rarely see them as superiors of course but rather as leeches.

Yes, many of our political and business leaders are not worthy of following. Dare I say -- it's immoral to follow them (except to avoid being thrown in prison by them).

 

[tayla]

Tis often said of old engines that "we are only caretakers".
We preserve history for future generations.

Isn't that what history books are for?

 

[tayla]

there usually seems to be three approaches to morality and ethics: being virtuous, following the rules, or weighing the consequences.

Very intuitive comment. But there is a fourth approach: don't harm others. I don't think this is merely a duplicate of the others.

 

[Revoltingest]

Enjoying warm sunny weather when the UK is cold and wet is totally immoral.
I have to put a pet-warmer in my rucksack, keeping my other mittens warm.

Immoral pleasure is often the best pleasure.

 

[Revoltingest]

Isn't that what history books are for?

Books don't bring history alive.
To personally experience aspects of history...to re-live it....that's where it's at.
But we need books, magazines, catalogs, & other ephemera too.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Very intuitive comment. But there is a fourth approach: don't harm others. I don't think this is merely a duplicate of the others.

A virtuous person does not harm others
The rule is, don't harm others
if the consequence is that others are harmed, don't do it

I think most every moral concept can be remodeled to fit those three categories, and I think the model that the article advocates is a particular version of moral rules, rather than being constructed as an investigation of why a virtuous person would behave in the cooperative or harm none mode, or being constructed as the basis for determining benefit and harm...

 

[oldbadger]

Immoral pleasure is often the best pleasure.

But the ancient Egyptians and Romans thought that sexual pleasures were most righteous.

........... and few folks around here, although we don't get asked.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

But the ancient Egyptians and Romans thought that sexual pleasures were most righteous.

........... and few folks around here, although we don't get asked.

When temptation comes round, embrace it firmly with both arms, and both legs, if necessary

But, as you say, sometimes temptation takes a look, snorts, and goes on its merry way...

 

[tayla]

A virtuous person does not harm others
The rule is, don't harm others
if the consequence is that others are harmed, don't do it

Yes, this is a good basis for morality.

 

[Revoltingest]

But the ancient Egyptians and Romans thought that sexual pleasures were most righteous.

Not having antique engines, their choices were more limited.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Yes, this is a good basis for morality.

but it is also a choice, both overall (as social cooperation, for example), or as to its virtue, rule or consequence formulation.

There are other moral theories, however, such as individual good: good morality is about the self, the individual...the good individual is self-interested; keep the interests of the self first; do only those things that benefit the self...

not to say I support that mode of thought, but I recognize it does exist...

 

[oldbadger]

Yes, this is a good basis for morality.

That description might be better described as 'altruism' or 'care', etc.

These adjectives help to show more clear reasoning for their inclusion? A religious terrorist might feel very moral. ??

 

[oldbadger]

Not having antique engines, their choices were more limited.

Ah..... so if there had not been lumps of rusting engineering hidden in disused barns, etc, your mission might have been to found health centres for pervy old men?

Your life has been wasted, Sir.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ah..... so if there had not been lumps of rusting engineering hidden in disused barns, etc, your mission might have been to found health centres for pervy old men?

Your life has been wasted, Sir.

Wasted lives are the way of all on RF.