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The Sermon on the Mount or the Creed: Is it really either/or?

Howard

New Member
"The Sermon on the Mount, or the Creed. One cannot believe in both.
And Churchmen have chosen the latter. The Creed is taught and is
read as a prayer in the churches, but the Sermon on the Mount is
excluded even from the Gospel passages read in the churches, so
that the congregation never hears it in church, except on those
days when the whole of the Gospel is read. Indeed, it could not
he otherwise. People who believe in a wicked and senseless God--
who has cursed the human race and devoted his own Son to
sacrifice, and a part of mankind to eternal torment--cannot
believe in the God of love. The man who believes in a God, in a
Christ coming again in glory to judge and to punish the quick and
the dead, cannot believe in the Christ who bade us turn the left
cheek, judge not, forgive these that wrong us, and love our
enemies. The man who believes in the inspiration of the Old
Testament and the sacred character of David, who commanded on his
deathbed the murder of an old man who had cursed him, and whom he
could not kill himself because he was bound by an oath to him, and
the similar atrocities of which the Old Testament is full, cannot
believe in the holy love of Christ. The man who believes in the
Church's doctrine of the compatibility of warfare and capital
punishment with Christianity cannot believe in the brotherhood of
all men.

And what is most important of all--the man who believes in
salvation through faith in the redemption or the sacraments,
cannot devote all his powers to realizing Christ's moral teaching
in his life.

The man who has been instructed by the Church in the profane
doctrine that a man cannot be saved by his own powers, but that
there is another means of salvation, will infallibly rely upon
this means and not on his own powers, which, they assure him, it
is sinful to trust in.

The teaching of every Church, with its redemption and sacraments,
excludes the teaching of Christ."
(Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You)


Is Tolstoy right that the Sermon on the Mount, which teaches love and compassion for all people, and creeds, which cause division and fighting between people, are mutually exclusive?

Consider how Arius was persecuted for being a "heretic." Consider how the non-Chalcedonians and a whole host of other groups deemed "heretical" were persecuted. It seems that, in the history of Christianity, creeds have more value than human life. This is what Tolstoy means in saying that it's either the Sermon on the Mount or the creed.

Are you aware of how Arius was mistreated? Further, how the non-Chalcedians were mistreated shows that their persecutors cared more about creeds than love and compassion. No one can kill or maim or imprison those who they deem "heretical" and be a follower of Christ. Creeds and the Sermon on the Mount may not be mutually exclusive, but historically this has been the case.

For the first three centuries of Christianity, there was no universal creed, and Christians in different regions understood Christian doctrine in their own particular way. On basic doctrines, they were mostly all in agreement, yet doctrine wasn't enforced by excommunication nearly as much as what happened after the conversion of Constantine, when the mainstream church gained state support in the persecution of its opponents.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I'm assuming you're referring to the apostle's creed, which seems to me a doctrinal interpretation.
I've been vexed by the dichotomy between dogma, popular Christianity and the actual sermons of Christ for a long time. His words, as reported in the New Testament, don't seem to jibe with the current political spin being put on them.
If the essence of Christianity is to be found in christ's actual sermons, rather than the religio-political spin du jour, then Jesus was advocating a very different lifestyle and world-view from that currently being promoted by the "religious right."
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I don't accept the Nicene Creed or the Athanasian Creed, but I can see how it's possible to accept them and still accept the Sermon on the Mount. They don't really contradict one another, so they could both be true. Personally, I see the Creeds as being uninspired and a good example of the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
***Thread Moved to General Religious Debates***
 
Last edited:

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
There's nothing wrong with creeds themselves; it's when they become Law, and must be followed without exception or leniency, that problems arise.
 
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