The scriptures are hard to understand

[InChrist]

No real support of your claims there. The very different opinions about the Bible sink what McGee says.

But I don't expect you to accomplish what every Christian has failed to do for almost 2,000 years.

I certainly don't think I can accomplish anything, but God can and that is all that really matters. 2000 years may seem like a long time to you, but it is nothing compared to God's eternal plan. Besides, you are only looking from the outside, God sees inward and throughout these last 2000 years there have been thousands of true, yet uniquely individual believers all committed to their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who have sincerely demonstrated His love.

 

[robocop (actually)]

The scriptures are hard to understand. If God doesn't reveal the truth; then you won't understand.

Start at the beginning. The earlier the more subjects and the broader the presentation. The later the less important the more specific and the more individual threads.

In Genesis 1:1 Vernon Jenkins pointed out the following:

If you take the number of each word in Genesis 1:1 (1-9, 10-90, and 100-900 except the capital letters are lowercase) you get 7 numbers that add up to 2701. If you multiply them you get a really long number. If you take that number and add the 3-digit numbers between commas, you also get 2701. Also 2701 is 37*73, numbers for wisdom and understanding. Also 37 and 73 are hexagon and star of David numbers, the first ones.

Interesting huh?

So the point is that starting at the beginning you get the most important topics, the broadest search, and the most concentrated information, or something like that.

 

[InChrist]

Even if all believers on earth were horrible hypocrites that still wouldn't necessarily mean that God was not real. Remember that Jesus had a very big problem with the sanctimonious types in His day.

I really like this thought, it is so true. Hypocrites may slander, but can never negate the truth of God.

 

[InChrist]

The problem is that your "perspective" applies only to you. Unless you can think of a testable verifiable indepenent way of interpreting the Bible it is rather useless since it can be used to support almost any side of an argument and has been used in that way.

There is only one independent verifiable way of testing the interpreting of scripture and that is for you to personally go to God, seek, and test yourself. No one can do this for you or offer proof because God's entire purpose for your life or anyone's life is a real, living, personal relationship with Himself, not only in the present for more importantly forever. That means that each person must relate to Him individually and personally to find out what the truth is concerning His existence, His words, the meaning of life, death, sin, freedom, etc.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is only one independent verifiable way of testing the interpreting of scripture and that is for you to personally go to God, seek, and test yourself. No one can do this for you or offer proof because God's entire purpose for your life or anyone's life is a real, living, personal relationship with Himself, not only in the present for more importantly forever. That means that each person must relate to Him individually and personally to find out what the truth is concerning His existence, His words, the meaning of life, death, sin, freedom, etc.

By definition that is neither independent nor verifiable. What you are proposing is merely confirmation bias and that supports almost any belief.

 

[QuestioningMind]

See what I said in post #28 and #33.

No, people don't use faith everyday. GPS doesn't function on faith. Police officers don't function on faith. Trust in a GPS system is EARNED. Trust in the police is EARNED. Some people do NOT trust GPS, because they've had experiences in which GPS steered them wrong. Some people do NOT trust the police, because they've had experiences with the police that make them seem untrustworthy.

Faith is not 'logical' in any situation. I've had Christians tell me that having faith in the bible will lead me to the truth. I've had Hindus tell me that having faith in the Vedas will lead me to the truth. Since BOTH Christianity and Hinduism can't be the 'truth', faith is clearly not a path to the truth. It becomes as reliable as flipping a coin.

 

[QuestioningMind]

The scriptures are hard to understand. If God doesn't reveal the truth; then you won't understand.

The simple fact that they are so hard to understand suggests that there wasn't any creator God involved in creating them. I would expect an all powerful God to be able to convey His Word in clear concise language that virtually anyone could understand.

 

[Kenny]

Surely you aren't claiming to understand all the scriptures are you?

Hardly... but some scriptures are black and white.

Do you understand all scriptures?

 

[74x12]

The simple fact that they are so hard to understand suggests that there wasn't any creator God involved in creating them. I would expect an all powerful God to be able to convey His Word in clear concise language that virtually anyone could understand.

On the contrary, I would expect a God that had knowledge and wisdom so much greater than our own to often be hard to understand unaided. It's not that He cannot explain things. He can and does explain things. (Which is why I made this thread) But we humans have a tendency to devalue things that come easy.

 

[74x12]

No, people don't use faith everyday. GPS doesn't function on faith. Police officers don't function on faith. Trust in a GPS system is EARNED. Trust in the police is EARNED. Some people do NOT trust GPS, because they've had experiences in which GPS steered them wrong. Some people do NOT trust the police, because they've had experiences with the police that make them seem untrustworthy.

Faith is not 'logical' in any situation. I've had Christians tell me that having faith in the bible will lead me to the truth. I've had Hindus tell me that having faith in the Vedas will lead me to the truth. Since BOTH Christianity and Hinduism can't be the 'truth', faith is clearly not a path to the truth. It becomes as reliable as flipping a coin.

Let the God who answers by fire be the true God. (1 Kings 18:21-40) Yes some people trust in things/religions that let them down. However, in my experience with God; He has not left faith unanswered. So God will answer faith in incredible ways.

If people are teaching about a religion that doesn't answer faith in this life time but you have to wait until you die to find out if you did not trust in vain. Then they are teaching wrong. And I don't care what they call themselves; Christians or whatever. They may have some truth but they are still wrong. This goes back to the original point of this thread which is that without God we cannot understand the scriptures. That is how people find the truth. As the scripture says "And they shall be all taught of God." (John 6:45)

So that is how people may understand the scriptures. Not through their own futile reasoning but by God's teaching. The power of God is undeniable because He answers faith.

 

[74x12]

Start at the beginning. The earlier the more subjects and the broader the presentation. The later the less important the more specific and the more individual threads.

In Genesis 1:1 Vernon Jenkins pointed out the following:

If you take the number of each word in Genesis 1:1 (1-9, 10-90, and 100-900 except the capital letters are lowercase) you get 7 numbers that add up to 2701. If you multiply them you get a really long number. If you take that number and add the 3-digit numbers between commas, you also get 2701. Also 2701 is 37*73, numbers for wisdom and understanding. Also 37 and 73 are hexagon and star of David numbers, the first ones.

Interesting huh?

So the point is that starting at the beginning you get the most important topics, the broadest search, and the most concentrated information, or something like that.

That's neat. I like (good) numerology. Some numerology is used for evil purposes by people who have bad intentions.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Seeing you do not have it right.
2 Peter 3:16 is referring to the wicked, That the wicked which are unlearned and unstable, which the wicked pervert the things they don't understand, As they do other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Maybe had you back up to the beginning of the Chapter and read the whole chapter and find out what the subject is about.
You might have been farther ahead by doing so.
But you pick out one verse out of the whole chapter, then you go about trying to build a whole mountain out of it.All the while you leave all the other 17 verses just standing there, Had you realized that all 18 verses goes together and not picking out just one verse that suits your agenda.
Unto which will not work with me. You might have better luck with someone else. That are unlearned and unskilled in the scriptures.
Nice try. thanks

Think about it - what are they twisting? Answer - scriptures that are hard to understand, in addition to other scriptures. So as I said the apostle Peter disagrees with you. If you aren't persuaded by him, then I am sure I can't convince you.

 

[74x12]

Please provide an example of how I can 'test' for the reality of this God you claim exists.

You're entrapping me to proselytize. A "no no" on these forums.

But only in order to answer your question. The way to test God basically begins by someone having enough faith to give God a try. Unfortunately although God answers many people's prayers that they pray when they are in trouble; they never take that next step and try to grow their faith by actually repenting and drawing nearer to God. That's how faith is increased so people can see even greater miracles.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Hardly... but some scriptures are black and white.

Do you understand all scriptures?

Of course not, I would have thought you would know that by my reply. It just sounded like you were implying you understood them all. No offense meant if I misunderstood you.

Ken, Even the scriptures that seem to be black and white are disagreed about by many people.

 

[Zindik]

Muslim Tsalaf saying "If you know Aallah SWT , you would become for Aallah SWT , just as He's being for you."

That's that .

 

[74x12]

Think about it - what are they twisting? Answer - scriptures that are hard to understand, in addition to other scriptures. So as I said the apostle Peter disagrees with you. If you aren't persuaded by him, then I am sure I can't convince you.

Right. Even Jesus spoke about how there are differences in revelations. " If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" (John 3:12) So, not all revelations are given at once but as and when God wills it; He gives them.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Think about it - what are they twisting? Answer - scriptures that are hard to understand, in addition to other scriptures. So as I said the apostle Peter disagrees with you. If you aren't persuaded by him, then I am sure I can't convince you.

I agree with Peter, it's you that I have a disagreement with.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I agree with Peter, it's you that I have a disagreement with.

Well Peter said there are some things hard to be understood. Which some twist, along with the other scriptures. So if you agree with Peter then we are in agreement about this.

 

[Fool]

The scriptures are hard to understand. If God doesn't reveal the truth; then you won't understand.

i don't find that to be so. Love, or the golden rule is very easily understood. it is also very easily ignored; especially when it promotes difference between one and another.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

i don't find that to be so. Love, or the golden rule is very easily understood. it is also very easily ignored; especially when it promotes difference between one and another.

Would you please explain Hebrews 10:26 to me?