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The Rapture

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Lightkeeper, Jan 5, 2005.

  1. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

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    Will it happen or is it an inner process we go through?
     
  2. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though they do not generally use the word "rapture" to refer to this event (somewhat ironically, since the term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]).


    A great article for those not educated (like myself) on what all this rapture "stuff" means.... and yes, it's a Catholic site, but I think it gives a pretty good overview of what the differing groups believe about the rapture: CLICK HERE
     
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  3. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    I believe in the Rapture...as for when the rapture will be is still fuzzy in my mind...I know what I've been taught to believe on this but I'm kinda on the line because even though I was taught it would be pre-trib...I don't see where we are so special that we should not be tried in tribulation...I just don't have a mind set on the when yet...Thanks Scott for the link...It was very interesting...:)
     
  4. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    This is the gathering of the Hebrews; MT.24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
    So Post Tribulation gathering of the Children of Israel is where those grafted into Israel will be with Him. Straight from the mouth of Yeshua, His word is His bond, I accept that!
     
  5. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    Ok...let me try this again...the Rapture is NOT the second coming...it's when those who are saved are caught up in the clouds with God...Jesus second coming doesn't come until after tribulation...the rapture is supposed to come prior to tribulation...I'm still trying to locate exactly where in scripture it points to this. Hopefully I will find it before this thread drifts too far.:) The second coming is just prior to Armegedon and tribulation is to last a thousand years...litterally? not sure...geez...being put to the test here on scripture for sure...LOL
     
  6. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

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    This sounds exactly like what some people who had near-death experiences have described.

    tribulation=passing over?
     
  7. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    I'm back...I could be wrong but it could be in the letters to the 7 churches where it says about how some will be kept from the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world to try them. I think that's in Revelation.
     
  8. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Here is what you are looking for, but take notice in the words "last trump" just how many last trumps will there be?

    1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. (1Thess.4:17 meet in the air)

    Doesn' t this sound like the first resurrection to you?
    And doesn't this sound like, just a little different way to say the same thing?

    Mt.24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Yes, this is the Resurrection leading into the Reign of the Messiah!

     
  9. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    I saw a car with a sign that read: "When the Rapture occurs, this car will be without a driver." (Or words to that effect.) Damn...when that happens, I'm going to be dodging cars like crazy! :biglaugh:
     
  10. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Is​
    It Found in the Bible?





    Does the Bible teach that there will be a rapture of all true Christians to heaven? Will they be taken away leaving the rest of mankind behind to face calamity?​

    Actually, the word "rapture" is not found in the Bible. The belief is based on 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17, where the related words "caught away" are found. There we read:​

    "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord."​

    Believers in the rapture give the following literal interpretation to this passage: Christ will again come to the earth. The dead "saints" will be resurrected and the living "saints" will be caught away, or raptured. Given new immortal bodies, they will rise and join Christ in the air, and he will take them to heaven.​

    This belief, then, is tied in with the return of Jesus Christ. But what does the Bible show to be the purpose of Christ’s return?​



    Manner​
    and Purpose of Christ’s Return





    The Bible does not indicate that there will be a literal, bodily return of Christ to earth. Rather, it shows that he returns in the sense of turning his attention to the earth and to accomplish certain definite purposes respecting mankind.​

    Christ’s descending, as mentioned at 1 Thessalonians 4:16, is in the same sense as the Scriptures speak of God’s descending to earth. For instance, the Bible says of God: "He proceeded to bend the heavens down and to descend; and thick gloom was beneath his feet." (2 Samuel 22:10) "Look! Jehovah is going forth from his place, and he will certainly come down and tread upon earth’s high places." (Micah 1:3) What is meant by these words? Not that God will leave his place in heaven, but that he will turn his attention to affairs on earth.​

    In the same way, when Christ turns his attention to the earth he resurrects those sleeping in death who will join him in heavenly rule. (1 Thessalonians 4:14, 15; Revelation 20:6) They, like Jesus, are invisibly raised to join him in the spirit realm. "those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first." Then those anointed Christians still living on earth will, as they complete their earthly course, "be caught away in clouds [resurrected as invisible spirit sons of God] to meet the [invisible] Lord in the air."afterward," as mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, means that such faithful ones who then die will also receive a resurrection in the spirit.—1 Corinthians 15:51-53.

     
  11. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    Ronald...1Cor.15:52 to me is a verse that shows that even though our mortal body will die, death will have no sting over one that is saved because their spirit will leave the earthly body at the instant we die and go to be with the Lord...that no earthly body will ever see the kindom of Heaven...only our spiritual body will.

    Matt.24:31 Is after Tribulation where those that are saved through Tribulation will be taken up...this is also where most learnthat if you aren't saved when the Son of man comes you could be travelling as retrorich mentioned and one will be taken and the other will not. Matthew 24:40&41

    May is correct that the word 'Rapture' is NOT the word used...the words used are 'be caught up together' as Scott said the word rapture came from the Latin word 'rapiemur' which means rapture which means caught up.

    May refered to 2 Sam.22:10 and Micah 1:3 in the same sense as 1 Thes.4:16...I disagree on this point because I view 2 Sam.22:10and Micah 1:3 as God's deliverence at the point of time in the Bible where they then were and Not the second coming. I thnk this was the deliverence of that time.

    I don't believe that the rapture will be prior to Tribulation because I've always questioned this point and tried to see how this was to be so...but I know there was a place that the church I grew up in had said pointed to this...I just don't know just where this was. I know my Mom believes we will be caught up prior to Trib. as do most of those I had attended church with....I'm sort of a doubting Thomas until someone can tell me for sure point blank without question on this. I think there is a reference that as Scotts article points out that there are references to all...Pre, Mid, and Post...If I were to know for sure then I would believe it will be one or the other...until then I will be prepared for the time no matter when the time will be to include post Tribulation.

    I'm glad this was asked...perhaps in some way we can find out why there are these preceptions.:)
     
  12. anders

    anders Well-Known Member

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    SOGFPP,

    Interesting link. It began with an erroneous assumption, though:
    I was an evangelical Lutheran Christian from birth until past 50, and I never heard of anything resembling Rapture or Tribulation. I probably assumed that Doomsday would come suddenly and in one go (but never gave the process much thought). I went on reading the linked webpage anyway. The least unkind thing I can say is that to me, the theory appears ridiculous as well as unfounded in the Bible. Anyway, the article added to my education, I saved a copy, and it might come in useful some day, "under some bizarre circumstances", to quote Tom Lehrer.

    I am not by definition distrustful of RC material. For example, I rather often use http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/, I have bought The New Jerome Biblical commentary, and I foundBrown (ed.), An Introduction to the New Testament, to be one of the best NT intros that I've seen.
     
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  13. hopper

    hopper twinkle toes

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    In reply to the OP, I am a conservative Christian from a Reformed and Presbyterian background who believes in a literal bodily rapture at Christ's literal bodily 2nd coming to Earth for his chosen people. A great number of conservative Presbyterians would consider themselves amillennial like a great number of Roman Catholics, considering these references in the Christian Scriptures to be fundamentally figurative and spiritual. I take a more literal and premil-posttrib position, which would mean Christ will literally and bodily return for his chosen ones after a period of unprecidented tribulation on the Earth. I believe the Church will have to go through this Tribulation, but will be protected and spared through it, much as the Children of Israel were in the Plagues of Egypt.
    One of the better resources I've found on the issue is Robert G. Clouse's book, The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views, where Clouse acts as editor for main proponents of each of the four dominant millennial positions. I favor the position espoused by George Eldon Ladd, who also wrote, The Blessed Hope, and The Gospel of the Kingdom, and The Presence of the Future. IMHO these are the most logical, consistent, and systematic interpretaions of what is found in the Christian Scriptures, though other views certainly have their merits.

    -the hopper
     
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  14. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you are correct, the scriptures i mentioned refer to another time period ,i was just making the point that it says god will decend, he didnt come down at that time but he directed his attention down,the same way that jesus will.
     
  15. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

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    I remember reading about that somewhere and all I could think of was... why would God kill all those innocent people with those driverless cars to start off something so beautiful as the coming of his Kingdom?:sarcastic
     
  16. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it supposed to be terrible and horrifying, not beautiful? Also, aren't those people supposed to be Jews and atheists, not innocent?
     
  17. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    Jews and atheists, not innocent. :biglaugh:
     
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