The Quran WAS Changed!

[Photonic]

If I remember correctly when it was read back to Muhammad(PBUH) he stated they were not part of the revelation. Also the ones who went by memory and not written preservation did not memorize them and they were never found in the oral recitations. Apparently only one scribe had written those lines.

Oh ok, was just curious. Thanks for responding.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Oh ok, was just curious. Thanks for responding.

I am still looking for the exact hadith that speaks of it. The hadith was never any concern until Rushadi's book "The Satanic Verses" and he coined that as a name for them.

the oral recitations of the Hafiz are the true preservers of the Qur'an. the written is just a convenience for those of us too hard headed to memorize it.

 

[Woodrow LI]

I really don't place much value on money. Money and what if can by is just "stuff" temporary junk that eventually clutters up the place and one's mind. When I give my wife anything I try to give from my heart in the form of things I can do for her. As for stuff she wants or needs, any money I get, goes into our checking account and she uses it as she desires or needs.

 

[England my lionheart]

Neither they never were part of the Qur'an. They were not a revelation.

According to what I understand; Some of the scribes wrote them down with the assumption Muhammad(PBUH) was repeating a revelation, but they were the words of Muhammad(PBUH) Himself and not of the revelation.

Really it doesn't matter to me either way but i do find it interesting,from what i can glean from this incident and from Ibn Ishaq and in this instance Wiki

Islam:Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Satanic Verses - WikiIslam

This does seem like a massive mistake with a convenient Shaitan to blame it on.

http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an​

 

[Woodrow LI]

Really it doesn't matter to me either way but i do find it interesting,from what i can glean from this incident and from Ibn Ishaq and in this instance Wiki

Islam:Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Satanic Verses - WikiIslam

This does seem like a massive mistake with a convenient Shaitan to blame it on.

Keep in mind wikiislam is an anti-Islam site and does it's best to degrade Islam.

on that same link they do do quote the hadith from which this was taken:

Al-Qasim b. al-Hasan—al-Husayn b. Daud—Hajja—Abu Ma-'shar—Muhammad b. Ka'b al-Qurazi and Muhammad b. Qays: The Messenger of God was sitting in a large gathering of Quraysh, wishing that day that no revelation would come to him from God which would cause them to turn away from him. Then God revealed:
By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived ... and the Messenger of God recited it until he came to:
Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-'Uzza and Manat, the third, the other? when Satan cast on his tongue two phrases:
These are the high flying cranes; verily their intercession is to be desired. He uttered them and went on to complete the surah. When he prostrated himself at the end of the surah, the whole company prostrated themselves with him. Al-Walid b. al-Mughirah raised some dust to his forehead and bowed over that, since he was a very old man and could not prostrate himself. They were satisfied with what Muhammad had uttered and said, "We recognize that it is God who gives life and death, who creates and who provides sustenance, but if these gods of ours intercede for us with him, and if you give them a share, we are with you."

That evening Gabriel came to him and reviewed the surah with him, and when he reached the two phrases which Satan had cast upon his tongue he said, "I did not bring you these two." Then the Messenger of God said, "I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken." Then God revealed to him:

This was a comment Muhammad(PBUH) was heard to have spoken while discussing a Surah with some people of the Quraysh tribe. It was not a revelation and Muhammad almost immediatly knew he had spoken his own words and not from the Qur'an.

The words were never part of the revealed Qur'an and never were part of it.

 

[England my lionheart]

So these were Muhammeds own words or Satans

 

[YmirGF]

So these were Muhammeds own words or Satans

If they are the words of Mohammed, they represent a fairly monumental blunder. If they are the words of Shaitan one can only imagine what things may have crept into the Qur'an that no one noticed. All in all, it's pretty unseemly and a bit worse than merely a bad hair day.

 

[England my lionheart]

If they are the words of Mohammed, they represent a fairly monumental blunder. If they are the words of Shaitan one can only imagine what things may have crept into the Qur'an that no one noticed. All in all, it's pretty unseemly and a bit worse than merely a bad hair day.

I agree,its a bit more than a faux pas

 

[Woodrow LI]

So these were Muhammeds own words or Satans

The concept of Satan is a bit different in Islam than it is in Christianity. In Islam we accept all we say and do as being our own resposibility. the Shaytan can tempt us by putting ideas in our mind, but are powerless to make us obey him. We ourselves can be our own worse shaytan.

I see 2 possible explanations, Muhammad(PBUH) had succumbed to temptation to say something to please his listeners, in which case his own thoughts would have been the shaytan, or it is possible a Jinn had planted the words in His mind thru waswas (whisperings of Shaytan, erroneous thoughts )

In either case the words would have been Muhammad(PBUH)'s, but influenced by Shaytan.

The most important thing is the words were never in the Qur'an. This was part of a commentary on a surah he was explaining to a small group.

 

[England my lionheart]

Woodrow

OK,i understand why he said those things and the rasons for it,i don't believe in the Shaytan thing so i put this down to Human error,it does raise more questions than its answered though,at least for me but thats another thread.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Woodrow

OK,i understand why he said those things and the rasons for it,i don't believe in the Shaytan thing so i put this down to Human error,it does raise more questions than its answered though,at least for me but thats another thread.

A short explanation of what a Shaytan is might help. Shaytan is any sapient Being that has free choice and rebels against God(swt). It is more of a characteristic, than a specific person although the best known Shaytan is Iblis and he is often called simply "Shaytan" (Satan). But anybody can be a shaytan and often we are our own worse Shaytan.

 

[England my lionheart]

A short explanation of what a Shaytan is might help. Shaytan is any sapient Being that has free choice and rebels against God(swt). It is more of a characteristic, than a specific person although the best known Shaytan is Iblis and he is often called simply "Shaytan" (Satan). But anybody can be a shaytan and often we are our own worse Shaytan.

I agree about the Shaytan/Satan,i think Judaism describes this best,as for the mistake Muhammed/Mohamed made,its no big deal as he was after all Human.

 

[Woodrow LI]

I agree about the Shaytan/Satan,i think Judaism describes this best,as for the mistake Muhammed/Mohamed made,its no big deal as he was after all Human.

The Important part to us Muslims is those sentences never were part of the Qur'an and were from the Ahadith. It is agreed Muhammad(PBUH) did say them. But they were not said at the time the Surat was revealed. These words were spoken during a discussion of the surat.

The Ahadith are not the Qur'an, these are a collection of things Muhammad(PBUH), they are not related to the writings by the scribes as he spoke his revelations.

The Ahadith could turn into another topic.

 

[England my lionheart]

The Important part to us Muslims is those sentences never were part of the Qur'an and were from the Ahadith. It is agreed Muhammad(PBUH) did say them. But they were not said at the time the Surat was revealed. These words were spoken during a discussion of the surat.

The Ahadith are not the Qur'an, these are a collection of things Muhammad(PBUH), they are not related to the writings by the scribes as he spoke his revelations.

The Ahadith could turn into another topic.

The Ahadith are indeed another topic,i have read quite a lot of them,IMO they are problematic to Islam.

 

[Woodrow LI]

The Ahadith are indeed another topic,i have read quite a lot of them,IMO they are problematic to Islam.

They are problematic, if one does not understand about the levels of authenticity and Reliability. One also needs to understand they are not part of the Qur'an and are not the word of God(swt). The fiqh-ul-sunnah and the Ahadith are guides to how Muhammad(PBUH) lived. Essentially they are eye-witness reports.

 

[waitasec]

so?
has the bible been changed?
:yes:

 

[arcanum]

I think a man that has had a real revelation be he Moses, Mohammad, or Jesus... the pure light that he experienced is going to be dissipated and diluted when it tries to be translated. Like pure water going through a dirty pipe....what's going to come out on the other side?.The contents of the pipe are going to color the water, meaning one's own cultural and familial conditioning is going to color that initial pure revelation.