the purpose of religion

[caminante]

"The very purpose of religion is to control yourself, not to criticize others. Rather, we must criticize ourselves. How much am I doing about my anger? About my attachment, about my hatred, about my pride, my jealousy? These are the things which we must check in daily life"-Dalai Lama



i was playing soccer with some muslim friends, and then we ordered pizza, they told me they couldn't eat pork because it was against their religion.
Later that day we went to the pool, and some guy came in to the pool who had problems with them before, there was some argument, and the other guy-who was christian, insulted them about their religion. They, my muslim friends, did the same thing(insult him about his religion), then they started to punch each other and i had to separate them. This situation caused me an strong feeling that some people missunderstand what religion is for. because it is not possible that you so strongly be against such a simple as eating pork, and not be against a such bad thing as violence.
It is not because he was muslim, the other guy catholic, i just think religions should focus on what matters the most, which is respect between EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING, if all religions could do so, they would not encourage any act of violence.

 

[Hacker]

Also, religion is man made, it's as simple as that. Christianity denotes a lot of violence, it's such a shame.

 

[lilithu]

"The very purpose of religion is to control yourself, not to criticize others. Rather, we must criticize ourselves. How much am I doing about my anger? About my attachment, about my hatred, about my pride, my jealousy? These are the things which we must check in daily life"-Dalai Lama



i was playing soccer with some muslim friends, and then we ordered pizza, they told me they couldn't eat pork because it was against their religion.
Later that day we went to the pool, and some guy came in to the pool who had problems with them before, there was some argument, and the other guy-who was christian, insulted them about their religion. They, my muslim friends, did the same thing(insult him about his religion), then they started to punch each other and i had to separate them. This situation caused me an strong feeling that some people missunderstand what religion is for. because it is not possible that you so strongly be against such a simple as eating pork, and not be against a such bad thing as violence.
It is not because he was muslim, the other guy catholic, i just think religions should focus on what matters the most, which is respect between EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING, if all religions could do so, they would not encourage any act of violence.

Dude, I absolutely and utterly agree. Great post. And great quote from the Dalai Lama. Thank you.

 

[Sunstone]

I too agree with the OP. And I think the message that religion is about working on ourselves, rather than being critical of others, is all the more needed in this age of globalization than ever before.

 

[Tigress]

Indeed. I, too, agree. Excellent post. :clap

 

[cardero]

i just think religions should focus on what matters the most, which is respect between EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING, if all religions could do so, they would not encourage any act of violence.

Yes but then how will we know which religion is correct or better than the other one?

 

[ikitikitembo]

I thought religion was about finding the truth?...not necessarily finding peace or happiness...

...the truth can be anything right?

 

[lilithu]

I thought religion was about finding the truth?...not necessarily finding peace or happiness...

Where in the OP does it say that religion is about finding happiness? Religion is about the truth that makes you better than you were before you found it. If you are not kinder, more compassionate, more loving, more peaceful within yourself and towards others than what kind of "truth" have you found?

 

[ikitikitembo]

Where in the OP does it say that religion is about finding happiness? Religion is about the truth that makes you better than you were before you found it. If you are not kinder, more compassionate, more loving, more peaceful within yourself and towards others than what kind of "truth" have you found?

I admire your humanism, but truth simply isn't always "good"...and it certainly isn't always consistent with making life easier for us here on earth. I wish it were so, but that's just not necessarily the nature of truth. The truth is: Innocent, young people with dreams and ambitions die in war. Is it pleasant? Nope. Why do people always look for religion to parallel our notions about how life should be? I'm not saying the truth has to be sad, I'm simply saying that it can be either/or. Religion is about finding truth. Truth is truth...and that's it. We can't assume anything about how that truth is going to be.

 

[ALifetimeToWaitFor....]

I thought religion was about finding the truth?...not necessarily finding peace or happiness...

Religion is what you make it. The way to the ultimate truth for one man could be cutting the beating heart out of a man and eating it(its happened before). While for many it is exactly what the Dalai Lama said above.

 

[Sunstone]

I admire your humanism, but truth simply isn't always "good"...and it certainly isn't always consistent with making life easier for us here on earth. I wish it were so, but that's just not necessarily the nature of truth. The truth is: Innocent, young people with dreams and ambitions die in war. Is it pleasant? Nope. Why do people always look for religion to parallel our notions about how life should be? I'm not saying the truth has to be sad, I'm simply saying that it can be either/or. Religion is about finding truth. Truth is truth...and that's it. We can't assume anything about how that truth is going to be.

I don't want to put words into Lilithu's mouth, but I think you might be confusing her position with the position of other religious people you know of. If I have not misunderstood her, she is saying that religious truth can be assessed by how and whether it makes us better people, or something along those lines. You, on the other hand, very much seem to be speaking of a more common kind of truth. Is that so?

I'm not sure what religion has to do with finding every kind of truth in the world. But isn't that what you are effectively saying? Do you see religion as a kind of science, then?

 

[caminante]

Yes but then how will we know which religion is correct or better than the other one?

that you know it for yourself, and i think it goes down to which religion makes you a better person.

and, ofcourse, it doesn't have to be a religion. If you are Atheist, and is that the best way you find peace and "truth", then i encourage you to practice it.

they are all created by humans, so i would say choosing a religion is like chosing an icecream flavor. The one you like the best and fulfills you the best.

i personaly think that at the end one realizes there is no religion needed, i think religions are like schools, like teachers or guides. The truth is within you, not in religions. religions are only ways.

one day i was with a friend in a chritian group, they things they said where quite similar to the things i read from the Dalai Lama that day, they where just putted in different names. I figure out that religions are different ways to approach to people, to encourage the good, peace and love. And only when that is the purpose, i believe is good.

 

[cardero]

“People put too much emphasis and judgment on Biblical doctrines, and, in doing so, have started wars and murdered in MY name.
One group passes judgment on another, and the TRUTH is supposed to BE the prize in this battle. But people should realize that LOVE is the only TRUTH that matters.”

Ikitikitembo writes: We can't assume anything about how that truth is going to be.

Live for the TRUTHS you have acquired and adopted for yourself, ones you have PROVEN to work for you in your name.


HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: The Bible
Pg 31

 

[caminante]

I thought religion was about finding the truth?...not necessarily finding peace or happiness...

...the truth can be anything right?

exactly, truth not only can be anything. Truth is Everything.

accept that, and tell me what you feel. I feel something called peace. But also perhaps, i'm only crazy, so i just ask you to please find your OWN truth. if religions do not help you in doing so, then don't follow any, but understand the people to whom religions do help.

 

[lilithu]

I admire your humanism, but truth simply isn't always "good"...and it certainly isn't always consistent with making life easier for us here on earth. I wish it were so, but that's just not necessarily the nature of truth. The truth is: Innocent, young people with dreams and ambitions die in war. Is it pleasant? Nope. Why do people always look for religion to parallel our notions about how life should be? I'm not saying the truth has to be sad, I'm simply saying that it can be either/or. Religion is about finding truth. Truth is truth...and that's it. We can't assume anything about how that truth is going to be.

You're talking about objective truth. That's what science is for, not religion. People look to religion for guidance on what should be because that is what religion does. Religion is and always has been about the ideal, what should be, not what is. And it does not always parallel our own notions. Often it demands something higher of us than what we personally wish to give.

Objective truth says that innocent people die. That's simply what the way it is. No moral judgement either way. Religious truth says that innocent people dying is wrong, and we should act to stop it. Religious truth produces people like Gandhi and King, Mother Theresa and the Thich Nhat Hahn. The kind of "truth" you're talking about does not. Why would you want to remove that from religion?

And again, no one said religion is about making life easier. There is nothing easy about living up to the ideals that all the major religions espouse. People do it because they believe it's right, because they believe it's true, not because it's easy.

 

[ikitikitembo]

Religion is what you make it. The way to the ultimate truth for one man could be cutting the beating heart out of a man and eating it(its happened before). While for many it is exactly what the Dalai Lama said above.

Exactly. But where your wrong is that one man is right and one man is wrong. Or neither of them...but not both. Say you're talking to your friend and I come up and hand you a drink telling you it's blue rasberry kool-aid. You believe me. Your friend doesn't and thinks it's poison. You drink it and die. You were wrong, your friend was right. That's objective, absolute truth...which is what I believe in. If truth really was subjective like you're saying...the man that believed in Christ would go to the Christian heaven. At the same time the man who believed in Buddah would go to the next dimension. At the same time the man who believed in Allah would go to that heaven. You wouldn't die from the drink even though I poisoned it because you believed it was fine. Personally I'm not a huge fan of subjective truth.

 

[ikitikitembo]

I don't want to put words into Lilithu's mouth, but I think you might be confusing her position with the position of other religious people you know of. If I have not misunderstood her, she is saying that religious truth can be assessed by how and whether it makes us better people, or something along those lines. You, on the other hand, very much seem to be speaking of a more common kind of truth. Is that so?

I'm speaking of objective truth. What is better people? If there is a God and he professes what we understand as "good", then to become a better person would indeed to become what she is saying. However if there is a God who professes what we understand as evil, or even if the truth is that God does not exist...then as far as the evil God says, to become a better person we would have to take part in bad things like violence and selfishness. As far as God existing we would have no morals...a particular action would not be immoral or moral...it would be amoral (objectively that is).

I'm not sure what religion has to do with finding every kind of truth in the world. But isn't that what you are effectively saying? Do you see religion as a kind of science, then?

I'm simply saying that religion has to do with not necessarily finding every truth, but finding the truth about our creator and how he wants us to live (if indeed he wants us to live a certain way). I guess it's a science in a sense, in that it doesn't tell you how atoms work, but it tells you how life works...or should work anyway.

 

[ikitikitembo]

hey are all created by humans, so i would say choosing a religion is like chosing an icecream flavor. The one you like the best and fulfills you the best.

I'm sorry to break it to you but religion is not about that at all. It's not about what fulfills us the best. It's not about us. The central thing to realize is that human perspective isn't necessarily absolute. Religion is about truth, and truth doesn't play along with our fancies.

It's sad that it's that way, but that's the truth.

 

[ikitikitembo]

Live for the TRUTHS you have acquired and adopted for yourself, ones you have PROVEN to work for you in your name.

Truth isn't about necessarily US. I think this is the base, the ethos, or the assumption that has been made in this thread. If it was about us then yes, truth would be about our intentions. But it's not. Once you realize that humans aren't necessarily special, you will see that truth isn't molded to our mindsets. Truth stands alone, and is independent. I'm not saying that it can't be positive truth, I'm just saying that it's not necessarily that way...as you are suggesting. I think if truth were about us then this world would be much more pleasureable. Just look at the truth around you in this world.

 

[caminante]

Exactly. But where your wrong is that one man is right and one man is wrong. Or neither of them...but not both. Say you're talking to your friend and I come up and hand you a drink telling you it's blue rasberry kool-aid. You believe me. Your friend doesn't and thinks it's poison. You drink it and die. You were wrong, your friend was right. That's objective, absolute truth...which is what I believe in. If truth really was subjective like you're saying...the man that believed in Christ would go to the Christian heaven. At the same time the man who believed in Buddah would go to the next dimension. At the same time the man who believed in Allah would go to that heaven. You wouldn't die from the drink even though I poisoned it because you believed it was fine. Personally I'm not a huge fan of subjective truth.

exactly, the man who believe in christ doesn't mean he is going to heaven. NOr the buddhist is attaining nirvana. We either go to the same place, or we either don't go nowhere. The thing is that people PERCEIVE truth in different ways. They give it a different name. And that is why, we have to sit and listen to what EVERYBODY has to say about truth, everybody has come to say they found truth, but how is one suppose to know? well, very simple: do not believe nor disbelieve anything, just listen, listen to the world, listen to reality. Understand. close you eyes and try to see what truth is for you. Go outside, understand the pain, suffer the pain, hate, laugh, love, live. Thats what life is for.

"I had to strive for property and experience nausea and the depths of despair in order to learn not to resist them, in order to learn to love the world, and no longer compare it with some kind of desired imaginary world, some imaginary vision of perfection, but to leave it as it is, to love it and be glad to belong to it"-Siddharta, Herman Hesse.