The problem with 'revelation' as authority

[Saint Frankenstein]

After what fact? It is not rude. I am just being honest about what I believe. What I say about their religions is nothing compared to what they say about my religion. You just have not seen it on this forum because that is against the forum rules.

Jews had a right to reject Jesus and they did so for the same reason they rejected Muhammad and Baha’u’llah. Because they did not understand the prophecies in their scriptures they did not realize that Jesus did fulfill some of the prophecies... For certain, Jesus was not the Messiah that Jews were expecting because Jesus did not fulfill all the prophecies, but Jesus was a Messenger of God/Prophet nevertheless. Jesus was sent by God, so when Jews rejected Jesus they rejected God.

You are preaching to the choir. One reason Jews of today do not recognize Jesus is because Christians insist Jesus is the King Messiah forever, the Messiah the Jews have been waiting for, and Jesus never was that Messiah and never will be. So the Jews have that right.

The reason that Jews rejected Jesus as a Messenger of God/Prophet was not because of the resurrection claims; it is mostly because of how they interpret scriptures. On another forum, there is a thread that has been going for eight years between Christians and Jews and it is over 30,000 posts long... It is ALL about scriptural interpretations, Jews vs. Christians... will it ever end?

The reason that Jews reject Muhammad is because of how they interpret their Torah/Tanakh scriptures so they believe that no Prophet will ever come after Moses.

The reason that Christians reject Muhammad is because of how they interpret their New Testament scriptures so they believe that Jesus is the Only Way -- forever.

These beliefs are mutually exclusive so both cannot be true.

The reason that Muslims reject Baha’u’llah is because of how they interpret their scriptures... Do you see a pattern here?

It makes no logical sense that each one of those religions interpreted their scriptures correctly because that would mean that the other religions are incorrect. That is one reason why I am a Baha’i, because it explains all of them and makes sense of them. However, the reason I became a Baha’i in the first place was because of what Baha’u’llah wrote, since it stands on its own merit, as a separate Revelation from God.

They can do whatever they want, and after they die they will find out if they were right or not. I am not God so I am not in the business of forgiving. Baha’is do not tell Hindus, Buddhists and Zoroastrians what their religions really mean because they do not come at Baha’is like a steam engine attacking our beliefs as Christians and some Jews do. Baha’u’llah wrote that it is incumbent upon Baha’is to refute the arguments of those that have attacked the Faith of God.

Baha’is do not tell other religions their interpretations are wrong unless they tell us that Baha’u’llah is a false prophet. In that case we are obligated to defend our Faith because they are attacking it.

How do you think Baha’is feel when they are constantly called an obscure cult? It is complete ignorance to call a widely known world religion an obscure cult just because it is relatively new.

Does anyone in these older religions even bother to think rationally? Does it not even occur to them that the Baha’i Faith could actually be true? Or, is having a religion they are most comfortable with, a religion fits their personality, the only thing that matters to them? Does it matter that there might be an Almighty God who is in charge of all this?

If the older religions were superseded by the Baha’i Faith they were superseded. What people want has nothing to do with it. God has either spoken again or not.

If telling the truth about our religion offends people there is nothing we can do about that except to lie or bend the truth. Some Baha’is bend the truth but I am not one of them.

An essential teaching of the Baha’i Faith is that the eternal spiritual verities are the same in all the great religions of God, but it is also a Baha’i teaching that humanity cannot survive, let alone move forward into the new age, without the new message of world unity that Baha’u’llah brought, along with His new teachings and Laws. The bulk of humanity holding onto older religions holds back the progress of humanity, even if people do not realize it.

I have nothing more to say to you. It's a waste of time. I have a very low opinion of your religion, however, and it's entirely due to how Baha'is behave on this forum and elsewhere. I've never met a Baha'i that doesn't act the way that I described. So, yes - it comes off as an authoritarian brainwashing cult to me. An arrogant, theocratic cult that thinks it's a "world religion" with less than 10 million followers and when most people haven't heard of it, insults everyone else, thinks that it alone is the key to humanity's progress, wants to rule the world and thinks criticism of itself is akin to blasphemy. No, thanks.

 

[Trailblazer]

Wow! What else can I say? And your evidence for a single, solitary word of what you write is.....????

The evidence comes from what was revealed in my religion as well as what I know about Christianity from studying and learning about what Christians believe by talking to them and posting to them on forums for many years.

Logic and common sense can then be applied to all of that in order to draw certain conclusions.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have nothing more to say to you. It's a waste of time. I have a very low opinion of your religion, however, and it's entirely due to how Baha'is behave on this forum and elsewhere. I've never met a Baha'i that doesn't act the way that I described. So, yes - it comes off as an authoritarian brainwashing cult to me. An arrogant, theocratic cult that thinks it's a "world religion" with less than 10 million followers and when most people haven't heard of it, insults everyone else, thinks that it alone is the key to humanity's progress, wants to rule the world and thinks criticism of itself is akin to blasphemy. No, thanks.

I do not know what Baha’is you have encountered on this forum or elsewhere but that is no way to judge an entire religion and it is unjust. But that is your own choice if you want to judge an entire religion based upon the actions of a few people you have known.

What you perceive the religion to be is not what it actually is. The religion is based upon the scriptures of the religion, not upon what its adherents do.

The only reason I am responding to this is because this is a public forum and I have an obligation to correct what you have said about my religion. The Baha’i Faith is not a theocratic cult and it does not want to rule the world. How could we ever do that, given we are disallowed from ever being involved in politics or running for any political office?

Here is an accurate rendition of what the Baha’i Faith is all about, in a nutshell:

The fundamental principle enunciated by Bahá’u’lláh … is that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is a continuous and progressive process, that all the great religions of the world are divine in origin, that their basic principles are in complete harmony, that their aims and purposes are one and the same, that their teachings are but facets of one truth, that their functions are complementary, that they differ only in the nonessential aspects of their doctrines, and that their missions represent successive stages in the spiritual evolution of human society….

…His mission is to proclaim that the ages of the infancy and of the childhood of the human race are past, that the convulsions associated with the present stage of its adolescence are slowly and painfully preparing it to attain the stage of manhood, and are heralding the approach of that Age of Ages when swords will be beaten into plowshares, when the Kingdom promised by Jesus Christ will have been established, and the peace of the planet definitely and permanently ensured. Nor does Bahá’u’lláh claim finality for His own Revelation, but rather stipulates that a fuller measure of the truth He has been commissioned by the Almighty to vouchsafe to humanity, at so critical a juncture in its fortunes, must needs be disclosed at future stages in the constant and limitless evolution of mankind.

The Bahá’í Faith upholds the unity of God, recognizes the unity of His Prophets, and inculcates the principle of the oneness and wholeness of the entire human race. It proclaims the necessity and the inevitability of the unification of mankind, asserts that it is gradually approaching, and claims that nothing short of the transmuting spirit of God, working through His chosen Mouthpiece in this day, can ultimately succeed in bringing it about. It, moreover, enjoins upon its followers the primary duty of an unfettered search after truth, condemns all manner of prejudice and superstition, declares the purpose of religion to be the promotion of amity and concord, proclaims its essential harmony with science, and recognizes it as the foremost agency for the pacification and the orderly progress of human society….

Mírzá Ḥusayn-‘Alí, surnamed Bahá’u’lláh (the Glory of God), a native of Mázindarán, Whose advent the Báb [Herald and Forerunner of Bahá’u’lláh] had foretold, … was imprisoned in Ṭihrán, was banished, in 1852, from His native land to Baghdád, and thence to Constantinople and Adrianople, and finally to the prison city of ‘Akká, where He remained incarcerated for no less than twenty-four years, and in whose neighborhood He passed away in 1892. In the course of His banishment, and particularly in Adrianople and ‘Akká, He formulated the laws and ordinances of His Dispensation, expounded, in over a hundred volumes, the principles of His Faith, proclaimed His Message to the kings and rulers of both the East and the West, both Christian and Muslim, addressed the Pope, the Caliph of Islám, the Chief Magistrates of the Republics of the American continent, the entire Christian sacerdotal order, the leaders of Shí’ih and Sunní Islám, and the high priests of the Zoroastrian religion. In these writings He proclaimed His Revelation, summoned those whom He addressed to heed His call and espouse His Faith, warned them of the consequences of their refusal, and denounced, in some cases, their arrogance and tyranny….

The Faith which this order serves, safeguards and promotes is … essentially supernatural, supranational, entirely non-political, non-partisan, and diametrically opposed to any policy or school of thought that seeks to exalt any particular race, class or nation. It is free from any form of ecclesiasticism, has neither priesthood nor rituals, and is supported exclusively by voluntary contributions made by its avowed adherents. Though loyal to their respective governments, though imbued with the love of their own country, and anxious to promote at all times, its best interests, the followers of the Bahá’í Faith, nevertheless, viewing mankind as one entity, and profoundly attached to its vital interests, will not hesitate to subordinate every particular interest, be it personal, regional or national, to the over-riding interests of the generality of mankind, knowing full well that in a world of interdependent peoples and nations the advantage of the part is best to be reached by the advantage of the whole, and that no lasting result can be achieved by any of the component parts if the general interests of the entity itself are neglected…

—Shoghi Effendi

The Promised Day Is Come, v - vii

 

[DaniëlT]

Revelations are probably all personal.