The Problem of Evil

[Starfish]

"God does not intervene." Then how can you demonstrate or even infer his existence?

"Through prayer we can talk to him anytime and anywhere. His help is there for the asking." Except that prayer has absolutely no effect. It affects nothing.

"It's all a test of our faith and for our growth." A test of which an all-knowing deity must, by definition, already know the results. Therefore there is no purpose in this test.

"Because man abuses God's gift of free will." Except that if god is all-knowing and all-powerful, there cannot be free-will.

Actually God does intervene, we just have to learn to recognize it.
The real question, it seems, is why does he only sometimes intervene? Why does he not always intervene (and save the starving babies)? And since he doesn't always intervene, he must not really exist.

Why does any parent sometimes jump in to keep a child off a busy street and othertimes let them struggle and learn for themselves? The child, with it's limited understanding, gets upset at the boundaries as well as the bruises. But the adult knows better and knows the importance of the lessons learned.

No matter how smart and enlightened we think we are, there is NO WAY we can know what God knows. He know which trials we need to experience and which ones to divert us from.

None us know how many disasters God has saved us from each day. We just blunder along, upset that God didn't save us from everything.

And of course God knows the results. The testing is for us, to show ourselves. This is all for our benefit, not his.

 

[w00t]

Actually God does intervene, we just have to learn to recognize it.
The real question, it seems, is why does he only sometimes intervene? Why does he not always intervene (and save the starving babies)? And since he doesn't always intervene, he must not really exist.

Why does any parent sometimes jump in to keep a child off a busy street and othertimes let them struggle and learn for themselves? The child, with it's limited understanding, gets upset at the boundaries as well as the bruises. But the adult knows better and knows the importance of the lessons learned.

No matter how smart and enlightened we think we are, there is NO WAY we can know what God knows. He know which trials we need to experience and which ones to divert us from.

None us know how many disasters God has saved us from each day. We just blunder along, upset that God didn't save us from everything.

And of course God knows the results. The testing is for us, to show ourselves. This is all for our benefit, not his.

There is absolutely NO evidence that God, if it exists, is capable of intervening physically in our world!

 

[Super Universe]

"God does not intervene." Then how can you demonstrate or even infer his existence?

"Through prayer we can talk to him anytime and anywhere. His help is there for the asking." Except that prayer has absolutely no effect. It affects nothing.

"It's all a test of our faith and for our growth." A test of which an all-knowing deity must, by definition, already know the results. Therefore there is no purpose in this test.

"Because man abuses God's gift of free will." Except that if god is all-knowing and all-powerful, there cannot be free-will.

"Yes, thank you for the long distracting post on fiction. You could have just said fiction is something imaginary, but, I guess you think longer is better. Also nothing in your long distracting post supports your incorrect conclusion that video games are imaginary. I believe real people play real games and do not imagine them at all" You never stop with the dodging, do you? Pretend all you like, but you very clearly said before that the CHARCACTERS within the game were not fictional. You know this is just stupid, but rather than admit to your mistake, you attempt to defend it with your retarded straw-man argument.

God does not intervene in human affairs. I don't have to demonstrate God's existence to you, and you know what, He doesn't have to prove Himself to you either. So go on complaining about all the things you can't do anything about.

I said nothing about characters in a game. You sure do misunderstand everything.

It's obvious that you just can't handle this discussion in a mature manner. Your childish personal attacks will never make you right.

 

[Starfish]

There is absolutely NO evidence that God, if it exists, is capable of intervening physically in our world!

Well, it's a matter of what we choose to believe. I see evidence all around me and have experienced his intervention.

 

[credance]

There is absolutely NO evidence that God, if it exists, is capable of intervening physically in our world!

Maybe I dare say it is a physical law of nature that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Who are we to say that this is not a good law. What do we know about balancing the universe.
Are we so insignficant that we can't ask for Divine intervention and receive it?

 

[Rystefn K'ryll]

If God is all powerful there can be whatever God wants there to be, including free will

Right, thank you for showing another paradox inherent in the concept of an omniscient, omnipotent entity of any kind. The very concept contradicts itself.

Actually God does intervene, we just have to learn to recognize it.
The real question, it seems, is why does he only sometimes intervene? Why does he not always intervene (and save the starving babies)? And since he doesn't always intervene, he must not really exist. Since he does not always always intervene when the bible clearly states that he will, we must infer that he does not exist as described.

Why does any parent sometimes jump in to keep a child off a busy street and othertimes let them struggle and learn for themselves? The child, with it's limited understanding, gets upset at the boundaries as well as the bruises. But the adult knows better and knows the importance of the lessons learned. Why would a parent let the child be hit by the car? What lesson is to be learned there? Only that the parent is NOT loving and caring as we are told.

No matter how smart and enlightened we think we are, there is NO WAY we can know what God knows. He know which trials we need to experience and which ones to divert us from. Right... by which you mean god has a free pass, anything good proves he exists, and anything otherwise simply proves we fail to understand.... May as well worship me, the argument would apply equally.

None us know how many disasters God has saved us from each day. We just blunder along, upset that God didn't save us from everything. I know precisely how many: none.

And of course God knows the results. The testing is for us, to show ourselves. This is all for our benefit, not his.

So millions of innocent children starve to death and are tortured for all eternity as some sort of test for me? Your god is a sadistic freak.

 

[Rystefn K'ryll]

God does not intervene in human affairs. I don't have to demonstrate God's existence to you, and you know what, He doesn't have to prove Himself to you either. So go on complaining about all the things you can't do anything about. A non-interfering god is the same as no god.

I said nothing about characters in a game. You sure do misunderstand everything.

The character is fictitious? No, it's not.

I rest my case, liar.

It's obvious that you just can't handle this discussion in a mature manner. Your childish personal attacks will never make you right.

Your lies and dodging will, however, make you wrong.

 

[Rystefn K'ryll]

Well, it's a matter of what we choose to believe. I see evidence all around me and have experienced his intervention.

If you can simply CHOOSE to believe something, your belief has no weight. I can only believe what is demonstrably true, to do otherwise is delusion. To choose delusion is a sickness of the highest order... Or are you prepared to demonstrate this intervention? I highly doubt it, as it never occurred.

 

[Rystefn K'ryll]

Maybe I dare say it is a physical law of nature that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Who are we to say that this is not a good law. What do we know about balancing the universe.
Are we so insignficant that we can't ask for Divine intervention and receive it?

It's not that we are so insignificant (though we truly are, on any cosmic scale), merely that there is no divine agency to intervene for us. Feel free to attempt to refute that statement, but unless and until such a time as you do, the Null Hypothesis must stand.

 

[Super Universe]

What we have here is a tall and old child who never grew up and just can't handle life.

Boo hoo...

 

[Rystefn K'ryll]

What we have here is a tall and old child who never grew up and just can't handle life.

Boo hoo...

LoL... Ad hominem. I'm not the one who feels the need to make up an imaginary friend to deal with the evils of the world in this conversation. But hey, if your delusions are the only thing that allows you to handle life, then that's your own problem. You wouldn't fight so hard against logic and reason if you didn't know, deep down, that you're wrong, and your ideas can't survive without delusion anyway.

 

[Super Universe]

LoL... Ad hominem. I'm not the one who feels the need to make up an imaginary friend to deal with the evils of the world in this conversation. But hey, if your delusions are the only thing that allows you to handle life, then that's your own problem. You wouldn't fight so hard against logic and reason if you didn't know, deep down, that you're wrong, and your ideas can't survive without delusion anyway.

Yeah, it is an Ad Hominem, isn't it? As if you are above such things like calling others retarded just because they are more successful, happier, and better looking than you?

There's nothing you can do about the universe you don't like. Nothing.

Boo hoo...

 

[Rystefn K'ryll]

Yeah, it is an Ad Hominem, isn't it? As if you are above such things like calling others retarded just because they are more successful, happier, and better looking than you?

There's nothing you can do about the universe you don't like. Nothing.

Boo hoo...

No, no... Ad hominem is the fallacy of basing your argument on personal attacks. I merely sprinkle mine in to add flavor and spice. It's not like you were responding logically to any point anyway, so why not liven things up a little. I think the fact that you have abandoned your case altogether speaks volumes.

 

[Somkid]

Here is your answer it is some tough reading unless you are a philosophy student.

The Problem of Evil (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

 

[Super Universe]

No, no... Ad hominem is the fallacy of basing your argument on personal attacks. I merely sprinkle mine in to add flavor and spice. It's not like you were responding logically to any point anyway, so why not liven things up a little. I think the fact that you have abandoned your case altogether speaks volumes.

How many times does one need to step on an ant? Enough is enough...

 

[Starfish]

Right, thank you for showing another paradox inherent in the concept of an omniscient, omnipotent entity of any kind. The very concept contradicts itself.


So millions of innocent children starve to death and are tortured for all eternity as some sort of test for me? Your god is a sadistic freak.

MY goodness, who said anything about being tortured for all eternity? The perpetrators of evil will pay the price in eternity, not the victims.

None of us can imagine how God feels watching his innocent children suffer. The Bible is quite blunt about what will happen to anyone who abuses a child. And we don't know how much he IS intervening. Sometimes part of the test of mortality is having to suffer at the hands of another. That doesn't justify what others do. They will be judged and will deal with the punishment.
Your test is how you act and react. Curse God for what you see through your limited view, or trust him that he knows what he's doing. It's our job to do all we can do to save those babies, praying for help every inch of the way. This is how faith grows and how miracles happen. The suffering, killing and abuse will end and it will be by God's intervention. That's a prophecy and it will come to pass.

 

[Rystefn K'ryll]

MY goodness, who said anything about being tortured for all eternity? The perpetrators of evil will pay the price in eternity, not the victims. Not believing is the only unforgiveable evil in your belief system. That terrible evil is why innocent children are to be tortured for all eternity. This is your religeon, not mine.

None of us can imagine how God feels watching his innocent children suffer. The Bible is quite blunt about what will happen to anyone who abuses a child. Like murdering the firstborn of an antire nation because of the actions of one man? That kind of abuse? And we don't know how much he IS intervening. Of course I do: none. Sometimes part of the test of mortality is having to suffer at the hands of another. That doesn't justify what others do. They will be judged and will deal with the punishment. And testing small children to death? How is that justified in your mentality?
Your test is how you act and react. Curse God for what you see through your limited view, or trust him that he knows what he's doing. Why would I trust anyone who is completely evil in action? Who routinely withholds the aid promised? If I did believe in your god, I would reject him as the worst kind of evil tyrant imaginable. It's our job to do all we can do to save those babies, praying for help every inch of the way. "Please, god, aid us in resisting the harm you visit upon us... We accepted the human sacrifice you sent to appease yourself, wasn't that supposed to be enough?" This is how faith grows and how miracles happen. Miracles don't happen. The suffering, killing and abuse will end and it will be by God's intervention. That's a prophecy and it will come to pass. Don't hold your breath. Jesus prophesied that he would return while some of the apostles were still alive, remember?

Sorry, but none of your talking comes anywhere near to answering the actual question.

 

[Starfish]

"Don't hold your breath. Jesus prophesied that he would return while some of the apostles were still alive, remember?" (Your quote)

John the Beloved, is still alive. No, obviously you don't know God's intervention.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

If God is all powerful, all knowing and all good, then why does evil exist?

Nonsensical question. If there is no God there is no "evil," only the projection of arbitrary human preferences.

 

[cardero]

The Problem of Evil

One putting faith (read: hope) that there is evil and a central character who has a preferrence for such behavior, is indeed a disturbing concern.