I suppose one's reaction to faith is governed to a great extent by the way in which it is presented. The way it was presented to me as a child has had a negative impact on me throughout my life. I know there are many good decent Christians out there, but as soon as I hear certain buzz words like 'saved' and 'born again' the negative connotations they conjure up seem to overcome me! If I had been brought up with mainstream Christianity, not the pentecostal version, or with no faith at all, I suspect I wouldn't have these feelings.
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The Presentation Of Faith
- Thread starter w00t
- Start date
Yes but what did he mean by it, if anything?
Ringer
Jar of Clay
That we are a new creation in Christ for the old things that we were slaves to have passed away. That's not to say that Christians are perfect. I'm not pure but there is someone in me who is. I'm not compassionate many times but there someone in me who is. Christians are put under a microscope and when they fail to meet certain standards, which seems to be the case in your life, it can really turn people off.
There are times when we need to get over our childhood. We have to put things that have hurt us in the past and stop holding it against other people who don't hurt us. 
It can, but I must ask from a perspective of a non-Christian:
1) Who set these standards?
2) What would one expect when there are these high expectations that aren't met?
3) Therefore, what would a Christian suggest to a non-Christian when let down by not only failed expectations, but abuse against them?
Claiming that one has the one true path - and I realize not all Christians subscribe to this perspective - to the moral high ground puts oneself on a pedestal above others. Then in the off-chance that a person with this view is at fault for anything unethical, said person at times will let themselves off the hook, give themselves complete amnesty, while still claiming holding the one key to moral living above all other viewpoints.
What is an outsider to think?
BTW, jringer.......I like your avatar.
Peace,
Mystic
Ringer
Jar of Clay
The non-Christian
Probably different depending on the individual. Worst case scenario: The person becomes so disgusted with the "Christian" and all that they stand for that they develop a callousness for Christianity that will not soften in their lifetime.
That Christians are sinners just like everyone else. Being a Christian is a life long struggle filled with ups and downs. However, through your trials you will experience a peace and joy that surpasses all understanding. I guess the best thing we can do is admit we were wrong, get right with God, and try to live our lives as ambassadors for Christ.
Hopefully I touched on a little in my previous answer. Our lives aren't always the best measuring stick for a Christian life. I find that those put themselves on a pedestal in regards to their spiritual life can be quickly humbeled. I understand that an outsider looking in at the situation that you described would find it distasteful and disingenuous.
Thanks!
Captain Civic
version 2.0
I'd say that's pretty accurate. My father was brought up in a SDA? faith I think and ended up resenting it mostly due to the way his father (my grandfather) presented it to him. My girlfriend has also been in a similar boat, but although being a non-Christian for many years, she has become one now that she understands that it isn't all just hymns and restrictive lifestyles.
The way you are raised with a faith can definitely affect your perception of it. I believe Christianity is unfortunately a terrible faith to be brought up with, at least the version that I have known. I was lucky enough to be raised with a pseudo-Christian background (it was more just for an answer when I was asked what I believed, although I didn't really care) and even right now I'm discovering what the real teachings of Christ are, instead of that diluted dishwater that seems to overflow mainstream Christianity.
zookeeper
Member
I think I often take for granted the gentle way I was raised as an LDS christian. It would be difficult to separate positive religion from negative teaching. I have friends who had difficult childhoods in religious families and were somehow able to separate the two. Those people have overcome more in their lives than I ever have. I don't know what you have gone through but if you are looking for a positive relationship with God, I hope you find it. I believe sincere prayer is the simplest, yet most profound way of finding our Father in heaven.
I was told by my former supervisor when I was a chaplain, if I couldn't accept that my beliefs were the minority in the USA and salvation was not at hand for me maybe I should move somewhere where my ideas were the majority. Well I did, NOW LEAVE US ALONE!!! That's kind of how I feel...
There are times when we need to get over our childhood. We have to put things that have hurt us in the past and stop holding it against other people who don't hurt us.
Sadly the same abusive ideas are still being taught as 'truth' today, and I will continue to challenge them!
Melancholy
ç°ç«¯è
There are still certain subjects about christianity that I struggle with and challenge vehemently. I do understand where you are coming from.
Certain "Brands" of christianity nearly turned me into an athiest.
It is still hard not to get completley saddened and annoyed by the certain things that are preached in the name of Christ.
Your choices are between yourself and God and a church or denomination cannot stand in the way of that.
We answer to him and no one else.
I don't think he minds about where you are in life at present, you can only do your best in your own way in your own time.
There are still certain subjects about christianity that I struggle with and challenge vehemently. I do understand where you are coming from.
Certain "Brands" of christianity nearly turned me into an athiest.
It is still hard not to get completley saddened and annoyed by the certain things that are preached in the name of Christ.
Your choices are between yourself and God and a church or denomination cannot stand in the way of that.
We answer to him and no one else.
I don't think he minds about where you are in life at present, you can only do your best in your own way in your own time.
It would be easy to be an atheist, but I think agnostic is a more honest position as none of us know for sure if God exists.
BucephalusBB
ABACABB
First, frubals to jringer for a beautiful reply. I appreciate your candor. :hug:
Sometimes, but sometimes not. I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church, and for a few years considered myself an Evangelical Christian (especially since I think I was "saved" at least a dozen times, lol). I think it's important to look back and find something to appreciate, diluted dishwater and all. Compassion in the direction of those who abused religious upbringing can truly help to dissolve a lot of anger and bitterness.
It's kind of what Jesus said anyway, true? Love thy enemies?
Yes, there are very specific doctrinal points that I can't reconcile with the RCC, but I still love and adore my family who raised me in it and introduced me to the mystical and beautiful aspects of the Eucharistic service. Yes, I also take issue with Evangelicalism's "my-way-or-the-highway" attitude, but I have a soft spot in my heart for them and their enthusiasm in supporting each other when they stumble every now and then. Am I being delusional? A polly-anna? Can't say for sure, but this perspective helps me impart loving kindness on those with whom I disagree.
I can see that there are some denominations that get a bad rep, but I have come to truly enjoy people from these denominations. They have a message to give that I listen to, and in my mind, I read between the lines.......when I sat down with LDS missionaries on our front porch and gabbed for about an hour, I embraced the fellowship. And when I have been visited (at least 6 or 7 times) by a couple of Jehovah's Witness women who wanted to read some Bible verses with me, I embraced their positivity and joy.
I have to admit that I'm not always like this, however. I have found myself losing patience from time to time. I have found myself whining every now and then that I shouldn't have to travel so long to get to our Dharma center, and that I can be envious of the Lutherans and the Baptists and the Catholics that they have places of worship within 10 minutes of drive time. But.......that's me working through my own karma.
I had heard once before or read somewhere of a short anecdote from a Buddhist who was surrounded by people who were hostile to the Dharma. I think she'd said, "When I am a Buddhist, there is grief and conflict. But when I am a Buddha, there is happiness and joy."
Sometimes, you just have to rip the labels off and be in the moment with others.
Peace,
Mystic
Sometimes, but sometimes not. I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church, and for a few years considered myself an Evangelical Christian (especially since I think I was "saved" at least a dozen times, lol). I think it's important to look back and find something to appreciate, diluted dishwater and all. Compassion in the direction of those who abused religious upbringing can truly help to dissolve a lot of anger and bitterness.
It's kind of what Jesus said anyway, true? Love thy enemies?
Yes, there are very specific doctrinal points that I can't reconcile with the RCC, but I still love and adore my family who raised me in it and introduced me to the mystical and beautiful aspects of the Eucharistic service. Yes, I also take issue with Evangelicalism's "my-way-or-the-highway" attitude, but I have a soft spot in my heart for them and their enthusiasm in supporting each other when they stumble every now and then. Am I being delusional? A polly-anna? Can't say for sure, but this perspective helps me impart loving kindness on those with whom I disagree.
I can see that there are some denominations that get a bad rep, but I have come to truly enjoy people from these denominations. They have a message to give that I listen to, and in my mind, I read between the lines.......when I sat down with LDS missionaries on our front porch and gabbed for about an hour, I embraced the fellowship. And when I have been visited (at least 6 or 7 times) by a couple of Jehovah's Witness women who wanted to read some Bible verses with me, I embraced their positivity and joy.
I have to admit that I'm not always like this, however. I have found myself losing patience from time to time. I have found myself whining every now and then that I shouldn't have to travel so long to get to our Dharma center, and that I can be envious of the Lutherans and the Baptists and the Catholics that they have places of worship within 10 minutes of drive time. But.......that's me working through my own karma.
I had heard once before or read somewhere of a short anecdote from a Buddhist who was surrounded by people who were hostile to the Dharma. I think she'd said, "When I am a Buddhist, there is grief and conflict. But when I am a Buddha, there is happiness and joy."
Sometimes, you just have to rip the labels off and be in the moment with others.
Peace,
Mystic
zookeeper
Member
I'm confused. If you don't have any objections to mainstream christianity (as you suggested before) Why don't you focus there and avoid the specific sects that use abusive tactics?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I don't object to the word "saved" unless it's followed by the word "un-saved" (which is frequently used to refer to me). None of us know who's saved and who isn't, and there are a whole lot of us who believe the decision hasn't even been made yet! I don't object to the word "born again" either, as long as it's used to describe one's own spiritual experience. Spiritual experiences are intensely personal. I believe it's a huge mistake for any of us to say that our spiritual experiences are valid, but that someone else's aren't.
I absolutely agree!