The power of prayer

[No Good Boyo]

I am hoping some of the people who believe in a monotheist god can help me better understand the power that prayer has to offer, what it means to you to have a prayer answered, and how you feel when a prayer is not answered.

I am not particularly interested in cases or examples of prayer from the perspective of self (i.e. I prayed for me or mine and everything was better), as I appreciate the fact that once you feel a higher power or authority is aware of your plight/cause then you will automatically feel some sense of relief. I am more interested in cases where you may have prayed for someone else (who maybe unaware that you have prayed for them), and positive results have been observed that can only attributed as a direct result of your prayer or the intervention of a higher being (typical example – you pray that an alcoholic who is in denial would stop drinking. The person in question does not believe they have a drink problem, is not seeking any help, but decides to stop drinking off their own steam).

The reason I ask is that there have been case studies into prayer that have yielded no positive results in favour of prayer. This makes me wonder why people pray. Is it because you believe that god will help, or is it that you want to feel you are trying to do something to help?

Also, if you are able to provide any instances where you believe such prayer has provided good results, how did it make you feel? And are you absolutely certain that it was the intervention of god that provided the positive results and not some other factor? Similarly, if your prayer was not answered, did you feel aggrieved?

 

[Gaura Priya]

For me, prayer is nothing more than for our own benefit. I am a monotheist, no doubt, and Baha'u'llah says that God is beyond all mention and praise, and yet has instituted prayer to remind us of the Names of God and His divine attributes, and to develop those virtues in one's own self. Thus, through the power of prayer, we can psychologically help us embody the very virtues that we pray for, and the attributes that we attribute to God.

Praying for others is to reiterate that none of us really have place to criticise or praise another person's plight or fortune, but we can be instruments of positive change that can be named as a 'confirmation of God'. We are helpless creatures and are often apt to help. If we pray for another person, it helps reaffirm that, and then when it is translated into action, those affirmations can help us help that person when we act upon our prayers. Otherwise, they are mere words.

Also, they, I personally believe, have the power of positive thinking and confirmation and do influence the environment. The very fact that animals and plants (apparently) react to certain stimuli in nature are testaments of this subtlety of influences.

For example, one Baha'i prayer says:


" O Lord! Make this youth radiant and confer Thy bounty upon this poor creature. Bestow upon him knowledge, grant him added strength at the break of every morn, and guard him within the shelter of Thy protection, that he may be freed from error, may devote himself to the service of Thy cause, may guide the wayward, lead the hapless, free the captives, and awaken the heedless, that all may be blessed by Thy remembrance and praise. Thou art the Mighty and Powerful."

-- 'Abdu'l-Baha


Baha'u'llah says that prayer has an effect on the self as well as on others. " Though he may, at first, remain unaware of its effect, yet the virtue of the grace vouchsafed unto him must needs sooner or later exercise its influence upon his soul."

 

[Gaura Priya]

[youtube]VG9BMiQV2tU[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG9BMiQV2tU&tracker=False

Intone, O My servant, the verses of God that have been received by thee,
as intoned by them who have drawn nigh unto Him,
that the sweetness of thy melody may kindle thine own soul,
and attract the hearts of all men. Whoso reciteth, in the privacy of his chamber,
the verses revealed by God, the scattering angels of the Almighty
shall scatter abroad the fragrance of the words uttered by his mouth,
and shall cause the heart of every righteous man to throb.
Though he may, at first, remain unaware of its effect, yet the virtue
of the grace vouchsafed unto him must needs sooner or later exercise
its influence upon his soul. Thus have the mysteries of the Revelation
of God been decreed by virtue of the Will of Him
Who is the Source of power and wisdom.

-- Baha'u'llah

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Prayer is not just about asking for things...
It is also about Communication with God, Thanks, Praise and opening our hearts.
Prayer like Faith is very powerful. Sufficient faith can accomplish any thing, Jesus made that very clear.
Prayers are always answered, however, they are answered as God wishes not as we wish. Some times the two things coincide.

God is certainly not a wishing well into which we toss coins (or promises) to get our desires met.

I very rarely ask for any thing for myself in Prayer. However, over the years I have had many blessings. God is fully aware what we need. some times that need conflicts with the needs of others and his purpose.
God in his mercy, hears our prayers.

 

[No Good Boyo]

For me, prayer is nothing more than for our own benefit. I am a monotheist, no doubt, and Baha'u'llah says that God is beyond all mention and praise, and yet has instituted prayer to remind us of the Names of God and His divine attributes, and to develop those virtues in one's own self. Thus, through the power of prayer, we can psychologically help us embody the very virtues that we pray for, and the attributes that we attribute to God.

Praying for others is to reiterate that none of us really have place to criticise or praise another person's plight or fortune, but we can be instruments of positive change that can be named as a 'confirmation of God'. We are helpless creatures and are often apt to help. If we pray for another person, it helps reaffirm that, and then when it is translated into action, those affirmations can help us help that person when we act upon our prayers. Otherwise, they are mere words.

If I have this correct in my mind, you pray in order to embody the virtue of your god in yourself? Thereby not being reliant on the power and action of your god, but acting and behaving in a manner that you consider your god would act or behave in himself and thereby acting as a catalyst to spread his influence to others? So you don’t necessarily buy into the idea that god is all powerful and could, for example, cure cancer. But your god is more likely to give you inspiration to act in a manner that would resolve your own problems and help others.

 

[No Good Boyo]

Prayer is not just about asking for things...

However, over the years I have had many blessings.

I know this much. I am not looking for a comprehensive explanation into the what prayer is, but am looking more at the results obtained by prayer for individuals who may need help.

These blessings, do you consider them to be purely the act or influence of god, or are there other factors which may have contributed or caused them?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I know this much. I am not looking for a comprehensive explanation into the what prayer is, but am looking more at the results obtained by prayer for individuals who may need help.

These blessings, do you consider them to be purely the act or influence of god, or are there other factors which may have contributed or caused them?

I do not think that blessings can ever be attributed to prayer alone . There is never any causal link, nor would I ever look for one.

 

[Gaura Priya]

If I have this correct in my mind, you pray in order to embody the virtue of your god in yourself? Thereby not being reliant on the power and action of your god, but acting and behaving in a manner that you consider your god would act or behave in himself and thereby acting as a catalyst to spread his influence to others? So you don’t necessarily buy into the idea that god is all powerful and could, for example, cure cancer. But your god is more likely to give you inspiration to act in a manner that would resolve your own problems and help others.

Yes.

Perhaps it would be accurate to call it a panendeistic approach to the Divine Reality. After all, God is beyond all approach (technically, I'm a panentheist). Far beyond the more anthropomorphic approaches to God, you will notice that many Baha'i prayers contain a) metaphorical images along with virtues, b) constant praises of God's limitless Names (attributes and virtues in complete perfection which characterise God).

To a Baha'i, we can only understand a glimpse of God's Nature through His Names and Attributes.

God is indeed all-Powerful, and all-Merciful and all-Kind. However, He has also gifted us with human rationality and thought, and has given us free will or agency to be able to choose our paths. Prayer is a form of meditation of God, as well as personal development.

To the atheist, one could understand GOD as the Perfection and Source of all Virtues, of which humans are constantly striving to embody. The idea of eternal progression of personal spiritual advancement and the eternal continuous evolution of perfection of character is a beautifully unique Baha'i concept in Abrahamic religion.


"O MY FRIEND!

Thou art the daystar of the heavens of My holiness, let not the defilement of the world eclipse thy splendor. Rend asunder the veil of heedlessness, that from behind the clouds thou mayest emerge resplendent and array all things with the apparel of life. "

-- Baha'i Writings (Hidden Words II:73)


By George, I think you got it!

(Of course, I'm not only a Baha'i, but a Unitarian Universalist as well, but I guess it does not matter if you are only seeking monotheists and not specifically fundamentalist prescriptive religionists.)


Allah'u'Abha, God is Most Glorious!

 

[Gaura Priya]

This is one of my favourite prayers by Baha'u'llah for spiritual growth. :namaste

[youtube]h4U5OMo4kqU[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4U5OMo4kqU&tracker=False

"Create in me a pure heart, O my God, and renew a tranquil conscience within me, O my Hope! Through the spirit of power confirm Thou me in Thy Cause, O my Best-Beloved, and by the light of Thy glory reveal unto me Thy path, O Thou the Goal of my desire! Through the power of Thy transcendent might lift me up unto the heaven of Thy holiness, O Source of my being, and by the breezes of Thine eternity gladden me, O Thou Who art my God! Let Thine everlasting melodies breathe tranquillity on me, O my Companion, and let the riches of Thine ancient countenance deliver me from all except Thee, O my Master, and let the tidings of the revelation of Thine incorruptible Essence bring me joy, O Thou Who art the most manifest of the manifest and the most hidden of the hidden!"

-- Baha'u'llah

 

[Kathryn]

God is not a vending machine.

I believe that prayer is simply communication with God. Prayer changes OUR heart, OUR perspective, regardless of the outcome of whatever the situation is.

When I pray, I pray for insight and wisdom into the situation, and guidance from God to help me do the right thing, to learn from the experience, etc. I also tell God what the desires of my heart are, but not in a demanding sense. Actually, it goes something like this:

"Lord, you know what I want to happen in this situation. As my Father, you know the desires of my heart, inside and out. Please give me wisdom in this situation, to be an instrument of your will. Help me to be strong and to allow your light to shine through me. Help me to be open to your guidance. Use me."

 

[EmpiricalAgnosticAtheist]

Obviously i'm not a Christian, but I go to a Jesuit university, and have picked my friends brains before. Alot of prayer is meditative, and is kind of a way of reflecting and thinking about the things in your life; asking for things you want for yourself and your loved ones, or giving thanks to whatever deity you credit for giving you the good things in your life.

Meditation is known to have psychological & health benefits, so I don't see anything wrong with it.

From the outside looking in (as an atheist), however, in some ways it seems that prayer gives credit to your God(s) for the good things in your life, and if your prayers aren't answered, it absolves your God(s) of responsibility- IE "It wasn't in God's plans", etc.

In that way, I don't really like the idea of prayer, but as I said- meditation has numerous benefits. And if it gives you fulfillment/ peace of mind to pray regularly, then I have no problem with it.

 

[No Good Boyo]

Forgive my curiosity, I’m both intrigued and confused. I am struggling with the point you made about “constant praise of Gods limitless names attributes, virtues etc”. In the act of giving praise, do you believe that your god hears or even rewards the praise, or is this a personal thing...giving thanks for the sake of being thankful (not worried if it’s heard or not, you’re just happy and you want to express it – kind of thing)?

Must admit that your interpretation of the atheist understanding of your god sounds very romantic and idealist. Kind of a Mills & Boon version of my own ideals really. But as an atheist myself, I would very much struggle to feel the need or find the motivation or inclination to attend any ritual service to celebrate such a thing.

 

[No Good Boyo]

Yes.

Pe!

sorry, above reply was meant for you

 

[Gaura Priya]

Forgive my curiosity, I’m both intrigued and confused. I am struggling with the point you made about “constant praise of Gods limitless names attributes, virtues etc”. In the act of giving praise, do you believe that your god hears or even rewards the praise, or is this a personal thing...giving thanks for the sake of being thankful (not worried if it’s heard or not, you’re just happy and you want to express it – kind of thing)?

Must admit that your interpretation of the atheist understanding of your god sounds very romantic and idealist. Kind of a Mills & Boon version of my own ideals really. But as an atheist myself, I would very much struggle to feel the need or find the motivation or inclination to attend any ritual service to celebrate such a thing.

Just to be clear from the onstart, I am a theist, and I respect atheism, and have no problems with it. I have no desire to change your way of thinking. :no:

Yes, I personally believe that God is Omniaudient, and thus explains my panentheistic view. However, this does not mean that He is a Supreme Egotist that desires our worship, whom we must appease unless we receive punishment. However, giving thanks is only how I personally express myself towards the Divine. God loves, so I love Him. God gives, and I give back.

It goes back to the idea that we can develop a relationship with God, and not merely as a master/servant children/parent relationship, although that is what some religions tend to see God as. Since He is multidimensional and limitless, one can have a personal relationship with the Divine in any form (in Hinduism this is called 'bhava' or mood).

The intern minister at my Unitarian Universalist congregation is an atheist, and he has recommended the book, "Beginner's Grace: Bringing Prayer to Life" by Kate Braestrup (and the author is Unitarian Universalist as well). It is how an atheist can use prayer as a meditation tool for inner fulfillment and self-introspection. One little exercise described in the book is to think of that which is of the utmost importance to you.

Once you have done that, she said that you have thought of a working definition of what 'God' represents to you. (Of course, the word 'God' has alot of cultural and loaded baggage, but you should be able to redefine it to give it personal meaning, rather than let religionists keep that word for their own selves.)

Regarding your second paragraph, I could hardly think that you would be suddenly called to attend your next local Unitarian Universalist Sunday service (although my particular congregation is largely humanist and atheist)! However, I personally also do not believe that you should be forced to attend any ritual or service in order to express gratitude, express poetic devices for one's joy, sadness, etc. My idea of the 'religious/spiritual atheist' is what I am trying to convey instead.

As atheists have gained the fruits of Buddhism and Hinduism and practiced things such as meditation and mantra meditation and taking these religions into a context which serves a utilitarian self-fulfilling purpose, I believe that an atheist who is intelligent enough can also utilise aspects of Abrahamic religion to find healthful benefit without having to believe in anything.

 

[asketikos]

I am hoping some of the people who believe in a monotheist god can help me better understand the power that prayer has to offer, what it means to you to have a prayer answered, and how you feel when a prayer is not answered.

I am not particularly interested in cases or examples of prayer from the perspective of self (i.e. I prayed for me or mine and everything was better), as I appreciate the fact that once you feel a higher power or authority is aware of your plight/cause then you will automatically feel some sense of relief. I am more interested in cases where you may have prayed for someone else (who maybe unaware that you have prayed for them), and positive results have been observed that can only attributed as a direct result of your prayer or the intervention of a higher being (typical example – you pray that an alcoholic who is in denial would stop drinking. The person in question does not believe they have a drink problem, is not seeking any help, but decides to stop drinking off their own steam).

The reason I ask is that there have been case studies into prayer that have yielded no positive results in favour of prayer. This makes me wonder why people pray. Is it because you believe that god will help, or is it that you want to feel you are trying to do something to help?

Also, if you are able to provide any instances where you believe such prayer has provided good results, how did it make you feel? And are you absolutely certain that it was the intervention of god that provided the positive results and not some other factor? Similarly, if your prayer was not answered, did you feel aggrieved?

Interesting thread, thank you.

These are, however, I feel, very private and personal questions. How can you expect me to tell you these intimate prayers of suffering and joy?

On a simpler level - everything that occurs, good and bad, beautiful and evil, should be understood from the prism of everything occurs for a reason; sometimes we pray for things that we think need "good results," but bad results may be bad cloaked, if you know what I mean.

That is, let's say a person prayers for something and it does not happen. If a person becomes angry at "God" for it, then their comprehension of the infinite and of God is extremely simple, and perhaps not even really faithful. How can one be angry w/ God?

Prayers are not a person asking God of something. That is not the point of prayer at all - and those that think prayer is begging God for miracles, or for favors, are, I feel, very lost and will never receive what they wish.

I pray not to get help - that is material help or physical help - nor do I pray to ask for help. I pray to delve into the spirit, to go within, to find silence and solitute, to find peace, love, and harmony, to come closer to them -- because in them lives God. The only thing i hope to reach from prayers is to stay in that silence, peace, and love forever.

I hope this helps.

 

[EtuMalku]

Prayer is at best an elementary form of mystical communion.
Prayers express aspects of the power of the Word. Prayer can be a powerful technique for implanting positive suggestions, in this respect it is a form of neuro-linguistic programming (NLP).

Today's prayers are basically rote recitations or simple wish-making. Originally, prayer was a process of concentrated visualization combined with emotional and mental energy, all made manifest into the physical through proper vocalization.

Prayer is indeed a form of invocation as it unites our meditative state of consciousness with the power of the Word and with our innate force of Will.

 

[Levite]

I am hoping some of the people who believe in a monotheist god can help me better understand the power that prayer has to offer, what it means to you to have a prayer answered, and how you feel when a prayer is not answered.

I am not particularly interested in cases or examples of prayer from the perspective of self (i.e. I prayed for me or mine and everything was better), as I appreciate the fact that once you feel a higher power or authority is aware of your plight/cause then you will automatically feel some sense of relief. I am more interested in cases where you may have prayed for someone else (who maybe unaware that you have prayed for them), and positive results have been observed that can only attributed as a direct result of your prayer or the intervention of a higher being (typical example – you pray that an alcoholic who is in denial would stop drinking. The person in question does not believe they have a drink problem, is not seeking any help, but decides to stop drinking off their own steam).

The reason I ask is that there have been case studies into prayer that have yielded no positive results in favour of prayer. This makes me wonder why people pray. Is it because you believe that god will help, or is it that you want to feel you are trying to do something to help?

Also, if you are able to provide any instances where you believe such prayer has provided good results, how did it make you feel? And are you absolutely certain that it was the intervention of god that provided the positive results and not some other factor? Similarly, if your prayer was not answered, did you feel aggrieved?

Praying for people (or, for that matter, for oneself) is kind of a tricky business. It's not that I don't think God listens to people's prayers, or even that I think he doesn't answer them.

But the universe is a complex place, and things, by nature, are not always going to go our way. That's just the way the world was designed. And it can't really be otherwise, I think-- at least not in the universe as we understand it. Chaos, entropy, evolution, random chance: all of these are mechanisms for the functioning of the universe. And that's aside from human free will. With all those factors operating, sometimes we can't get what we want, or even what we need.

And I think God is always sympathetic, and always willing to listen. But though I believe that God answers all prayers, sometimes the answer is "no." And sometimes the answer comes not as we might like, but in more nuanced and subtle opportunities, which, if not taken, yield us nothing.

So although I pray, and I often counsel others to pray, I do so with the understanding that God may not necessarily feel able to do as I ask. Or that what I ask is something that lies in the bounds of human free will (like praying for the recovery of an alcoholic friend), which is something that God can help in the sense of being there for that person if they choose to turn to Him, but cannot do anything about in the sense of forcing that person to quit drinking. But the prayer is still worth the effort, because we don't always know what God feels He can take action about, and because the act of prayer is a comfort to those who pray by providing an emotional and spiritual outlet for their needs, and because in praying for someone, I think we help them by sending them strength.

 

[Gharib]

i have had prayers answered for myself and for others, i also have had prayers not answered for myself and for others.

for those that were answered i have been quite happy, for those that haven't been answered itry to find the wisdom behind it i continue to think about them until i find the wisdom and thank Allah for it.

 

[Kathryn]

All prayers are answered. We just may not like all the answers.

 

[No Good Boyo]

i have had prayers answered for myself and for others, i also have had prayers not answered for myself and for others.

for those that were answered i have been quite happy, for those that haven't been answered itry to find the wisdom behind it i continue to think about them until i find the wisdom and thank Allah for it.

can the prayers that were answered be attributed to anything other than the intervention of your god?