The Posture of belief in God.

[javajo]

Goats in the bible always means demons, not humans. The hell you believe in was prepared for demons, not humans. Misinterpitation place humans where only demons are. Matt. 25:41. Why would God place humans in a place prepared, or preordained just for demons? Makes no sense to me.

Phil. 3:21 is how evil humans are reconciled, by Christ power to subject them to himself.

Peace.

Sorry, I missed this post, and will respond: look at Mathew 25:

The Sheep and the Goats

31 "The Son of Man will come in all his glory. All the angels will come with him. Then he will sit on his throne in the glory of heaven. 32 All the nations will be gathered in front of him. He will separate thepeople into two groups. He will be like a shepherd who separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep to his right and the goats to his left.
34 "Then the King will speak to those on hisright. He will say, 'My Father has blessed you. Come and take what is yours. It is the kingdom prepared for you since the world was created.
41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'You are cursed! Go away from me into the fire that burns forever. It has been prepared for the devil and his angels. '
46 "Then they will go away to be punished forever. But those who have done what is right will receive eternal life."

According to this, nations, PEOPLE are separated as sheep and goats, the sheep go inherit the Kindgom of God, and the goats are punished forever, again it mentions fire. So, the goats are NOT demons, they are people. The place they must go was prepared for the devil and his demons, but now they must go there as well.

As far as Phillipans 3, here is the whole context:

17 Brothers and sisters, join with others in following my example. Pay close attention to those who live in keeping with the pattern we gave you.

18 I have told you those things many times before. Now I say it again with tears in my eyes. Many people live like enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 The only thing they have coming to them is death. Their stomach is their god. They brag about what they should be ashamed of. They think only about earthly things. 20 But we are citizens of heaven. And we can hardly wait for a Savior from there. He is the Lord Jesus Christ. 21 He has the power to bring everything under his control. By his power he will change our earthly bodies. They will become like his glorious body.

Note, he addresses believers: brothers and sisters, citizens of heaven. He has the power to change OUR bodies, those who are waiting for Jesus their Saviour. He rebukes enemies of Christ saying they have death coming to them. In context his bringing everything under his control is for believers, he will make everything right for us, and change our bodies like his glorious body, the enemies of Christ only having death (spiritual, physical, eternal).

 

[mickiel]

Good point, what about someone like Hitler. I don't think he repented in this life, so will he be pardoned in the next?

I think you also need to better understand the concept of " Repentance." Its not something we do on our own, although it may seem like it. Actually God leads the human to repent. Romans 2:4;" Do you think lightly of his forbearance, patience, not knowing that the kindness of God actually leads you to repent?" Hitler and those like him simply have not been lead to repent, God wanted them to do exactly what they did, for his purpose. In Acts 5:31, again we see Repentance is something that is " Granted."

Understand that.

Peace.

 

[javajo]

Within your mind there is a " Respector of persons evil", you tend to think they are too evil for the free gift. God is no respector of what humans have done evil. He is not willing that any perish but that all repent. He has not willed that any perish, but what he wills is that all repent. Its his will, and look, nothing can stop Gods will, nothing is impossible for him. The salvation of all may seem impossible to many believers, but its not with God. I cannot imagine God desireing something, and NOT getting what he desires, thats just impossible.

For eternal hell to exist, that means God would be making an eternal monument to sin, which is absurd.

Peace.

I dont think anyone too evil for the free gift, but today is the day of salvation. People harden their heart to the point that they will not trust Christ, they love evil more than good. I'm sorry, but God is just, he will not let anyone into heaven who is unrepentant who is a murderer, liar, adulterer, thief or sorcerer who has not asked forgiveness and pleaded the blood of Christ over them. God does not send them to Hell, they CHOOSE Hell. God is not willing that any perish, and any that come to him WILL NOT perish, but people have free will and an evil sin nature, and if they choose to reject God and be wicked, they choose that themselves.

 

[mickiel]

Sorry, I missed this post, and will respond: look at Mathew 25:

The Sheep and the Goats

31 "The Son of Man will come in all his glory. All the angels will come with him. Then he will sit on his throne in the glory of heaven. 32 All the nations will be gathered in front of him. He will separate thepeople into two groups. He will be like a shepherd who separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep to his right and the goats to his left.
34 "Then the King will ).

I totally disagree. Goats and sheep are two entirely different animals, not the same at all, which is symbolic of humans being different than demons. This verse in no manner states that humans will be seperated into two distinct groups, it just does not. One creation is placed on his right, a totally different creation is placed on his left.

Peace.

 

[javajo]

I think you also need to better understand the concept of " Repentance." Its not something we do on our own, although it may seem like it. Actually God leads the human to repent. Romans 2:4;" Do you think lightly of his forbearance, patience, not knowing that the kindness of God actually leads you to repent?" Hitler and those like him simply have not been lead to repent, God wanted them to do exactly what they did, for his purpose. In Acts 5:31, again we see Repentance is something that is " Granted."

Understand that.

Peace.

To repent means literally to "change one's mind". I view it as, I change my mind about how I think I might get saved on my own merit: by good works, sacraments, ceremonies, church attendance, etc., and instead trust in what Christ did, his finished work on the cross, that his death paid for my sins and I accept that as a free gift. So, I do no depend on myself and my goodness, but on him and his finished work on the cross. So, he saves me and he keeps me. But, I must "Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved". If Hitler rejected Jesus and murdered his people, I doubt his heart was softened to turn to Jesus for salvation. Like it says in Hebrews, it is appointed once for man to die, and after this the judgement.

 

[javajo]

I totally disagree. Goats and sheep are two entirely different animals, not the same at all, which is symbolic of humans being different than demons. This verse in no manner states that humans will be seperated into two distinct groups, it just does not. One creation is placed on his right, a totally different creation is placed on his left.

Peace.

It plainly says he will separate the PEOPLE into 2 groups, the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

 

[mickiel]

I dont think anyone too evil for the free gift, but today is the day of salvation. People harden their heart to the point that they will not trust Christ, they love evil more than good. I'm sorry, but God is just, he will not let anyone into heaven who is unrepentant who is a murderer, liar, adulterer, thief or sorcerer who has not asked forgiveness and pleaded the blood of Christ over them. God does not send them to Hell, they CHOOSE Hell. God is not willing that any perish, and any that come to him WILL NOT perish, but people have free will and an evil sin nature, and if they choose to reject God and be wicked, they choose that themselves.

This is an outright deception, while Jesus was dying on the cross, a theif asked to be remembered in his Kingdom. He didNOT repent, didNOT do anything but ask Christ to consider him in his memory. Christ gave this theif Salvation, YOU just wouldnot have.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

It plainly says he will separate the PEOPLE into 2 groups, the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

You are blind to this, A shepard seperates two entirely different animals, they are NOT the same. Goats and Sheep are TOTALLY different, as are humans and demons.

Peace.

 

[javajo]

You are blind to this, A shepard seperates two entirely different animals, they are NOT the same. Goats and Sheep are TOTALLY different, as are humans and demons.

Peace.

Here is a part I omitted for brevity:

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'You are cursed! Go away from me into the fire that burns forever. It has been prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 I was hungry. But you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty. But you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger. But you did not invite me in. I needed clothes. But you did not give me any. I was sick and in prison. But you did not take care of me.'

44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty and not help you? When did we see you as a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison and not help you?'
45 "He will reply, 'What I'm about to tell you is true. Anything you didn't do for one of the least important of these, you didn't do for me.' 46 "Then they will go away to be punished forever. But those who have done what is right will receive eternal life."

Note that these on the left did not feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, invite strangers in, or clothed the naked, or take care of the sick in prison. PEOPLE are supposed to do these things. Only people COULD do these things. This is about PEOPLE.

 

[javajo]

This is an outright deception, while Jesus was dying on the cross, a theif asked to be remembered in his Kingdom. He didNOT repent, didNOT do anything but ask Christ to consider him in his memory. Christ gave this theif Salvation, YOU just wouldnot have.

Peace.

Yes, I would have. Notice the other thief did not acknowledge Christ and that Heaven was his Kingdom, but railed at him, Jesus promised him nothing. I believe this is evidence that a person, even on their deathbed can call out to Jesus and be saved.

 

[javajo]

Hey, Mickiel. I love you brother and I enjoy the conversation. But, its getting late, I will talk more another time God willing. Peace to you and have a good night, friend.

 

[mickiel]

Here is a part I omitted for brevity:

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'You are cursed! Go away from me into the fire that burns forever. It has been prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 I was hungry. But you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty. But you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger. But you did not invite me in. I needed clothes. But you did not give me any. I was sick and in prison. But you did not take care of me.'

44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty and not help you? When did we see you as a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison and not help you?'
45 "He will reply, 'What I'm about to tell you is true. Anything you didn't do for one of the least important of these, you didn't do for me.' 46 "Then they will go away to be punished forever. But those who have done what is right will receive eternal life."

Note that these on the left did not feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, invite strangers in, or clothed the naked, or take care of the sick in prison. PEOPLE are supposed to do these things. Only people COULD do these things. This is about PEOPLE.

No Javajo, demons neglect those things. And when humans do it, its demon inspired, period! demons deserve the condemnation, not humans. You are drunk with the condemnation of humans, even trying to force their demise. Jesus gave himself a Ransom for ALL, 1Tim.2:6. That setteled it for those humans you condemn.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Hey, Mickiel. I love you brother and I enjoy the conversation. But, its getting late, I will talk more another time God willing. Peace to you and have a good night, friend.

Good night to you as well.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The posture of belief in God is all inclusive, nobody is left out. None are condemned. In 1Corinth. 15:24-28 God is given back all of his people to rule over by Christ. God will " PUT" all humans in subjection to him and be " All in All." In vs. 27 God Puts humans where he wants them, all sinners who reject him are put into a belief stance.

Its the gospel.

Peace.

 

[Thief]

The posture of belief in God is all inclusive, nobody is left out. None are condemned. In 1Corinth. 15:24-28 God is given back all of his people to rule over by Christ. God will " PUT" all humans in subjection to him and be " All in All." In vs. 27 God Puts humans where he wants them, all sinners who reject him are put into a belief stance.

Its the gospel.

Peace.

You have perverted the gospel.
Not all are willing to receive it.
Many are not able.

This last post shows you are one or the other.

 

[mickiel]

You have perverted the gospel.
Not all are willing to receive it.
Many are not able.

This last post shows you are one or the other.

God is able and willing to change their wills, and make them able to receive it.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The best posture of belief is the one God creates himself within the human.

Peace.

 

[horntooth]

The best posture of belief is the one God creates himself within the human.

that would mean that there is no man that believes, only god believes (through them) in himself (?!).

 

[mickiel]

that would mean that there is no man that believes, only god believes (through them) in himself (?!).

Well yes, if one would travel to the deepest understanding of this, then yes, -- Only God believes in himself at the level of self reality that is God. He made us, of ourselves we don't know what to believe, we can only then learn belief, but its the source we learn it from that throws us off. We learn belief and unbelief from each other, a dangerous unpredictable route.

God knows that if a human is to have pure belief in him, that he must install that for them, or off they go on their own. So yes, none of us are born with belief in God, it is developed by whatever means is out there, and thus will include the weak means, perverted means, unstable means, the unimformed means. And thus we have the results of those ways and means in peoples belief.

Peace.

 

[sojourner]

So many believers need to correctly and as fully as they can, understand the posture you are in.

Supine works best for me.