The Posture of belief in God.

[Misty]

God is a great purpose, so your posture of belief in God needs to be " A great experience in your Consciousness." It is worth nothingless than your whole heart being invested in this Posture.

And I want to go into the posture of " Whole hearted belief."

Peace.

It would take a greater mind than mine to work out what you are on about!:yes:

 

[mickiel]

The best posture of belief in God, is the Whole Heart. If you are trying to believe in him, its a thing inside of your Consciousness that needs to be put in full gear, and whole hearted desire. Your whole being needs to be involved in this consideration.

And I want to get into that.

Peace.

 

[javajo]

I disagree,...The term " Hell" shouldnot even be in the bible, but it got put in there. In fact, I believe every verse that mentions eternal punishing, is in error, and thats my view, they just do not fit in the flow of the bible, its like a curse on the bible.

Peace.

Ok, I agree we disagree. While I do not 'covet' or even like the idea of eternal punishment, it is taught all throughout the Bible. I believe the whole Bible and that God has preserved his word as he said he would.

 

[mickiel]

Ok, I agree we disagree. While I do not 'covet' or even like the idea of eternal punishment, it is taught all throughout the Bible. I believe the whole Bible and that God has preserved his word as he said he would.

I disagree, eternal hell punishment is not taught anywhere in the Old testement. God never threatened anyone with eternal hell punishment in the old testement, he never explained what it is, never warned anyone of the consequences of it, never! Simply show me if you think this is not so. You have a propencity to believe things, speak things, that are not true, like this hell being refered to more than heaven business I pointed out to you eariler. This " eternal hell being taught all throughout the bible", is simply another exstension of you deceiving yourself into believing something, when simple study would show you the answer.

In reality you do covet these things, when you believe things that are not true, its because you desire them to be true. It is what you really want to believe.

There is nothing about the things that God will do that I disagree with, or do not want him to do. You claim you do not like the idea of eternal hell punishment, so either you are following God, not liking something he is going to do, or you want him to do it. Either one of these stances is crippled belief in my view.

Peace.

 

[javajo]

Old Testament, just a couple verses out of many:

Isaiah 33:11-14
Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you. And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire. Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might. The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

There are numerous verses in the OT which speak of the destruction of the wicked and the OT Jews understood this to be everlasting. Now, whether one believes in literal flame or not, the truth is that it is not good. Again, one must accept the whole council of God, not just bits and pieces. As I have said, I believe God is just and he will judge fairly, equally, and if a person is wicked, they will be punished. I would not believe in a God who would let someone murder, rape, steal, lie, blasheme, etc. and not judge them rightly. Either one is wicked or one is righteous, and according to the Bible we are ALL sinners and need a Saviour. So, it still comes down to paying for our sins ourselves or accepting the free gift of salvation because Jesus paid for our sins already.

 

[mickiel]

I

There is nothing about the things that God will do that I disagree with, or do not want him to do. You claim you do not like the idea of eternal hell punishment, so either you are following God, not liking something he is going to do, or you want him to do it. Either one of these stances is crippled belief in my view.

Peace.

The idea of worshipping a God that does things that we disagree with, is important to belief. I disagree with eternal torture as a remedy for sin, so why should I worship a God who will do that? I do not admire that, I see it as extremely harsh and unnecessary, I totally disagree with it. So why be at odds with your God?

The God I believe in and support would do no such thing. Thats WHY I support his way and will, I agree with him not doing that. The idea of worshipping a God who does things you do not like, is not the submission that certain Christians think total submission is really all about.

God is shaping the mind of humans to " See his Righteousness", and understand and agree with it, not to bring up a crop of humans who would just go along with unrighteousness.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Old Testament, just a couple verses out of many:

Isaiah 33:11-14
Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you. And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire. Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might. The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

There are numerous verses in the OT which speak of the destruction of the wicked and the OT Jews understood this to be everlasting. Now, whether one believes in literal flame or not, the truth is that it is not good. Again, one must accept the whole council of God, not just bits and pieces. As I have said, I believe God is just and he will judge fairly, equally, and if a person is wicked, they will be punished. I would not believe in a God who would let someone murder, rape, steal, lie, blasheme, etc. and not judge them rightly. Either one is wicked or one is righteous, and according to the Bible we are ALL sinners and need a Saviour. So, it still comes down to paying for our sins ourselves or accepting the free gift of salvation because Jesus paid for our sins already.

These verses are not a warning against eternal hell punishment. They do not explain to people that God has set up eternal hell punishment as the outcome of living a certain lifestyle. As important as eternal hell punishment would be, God would clearly explain the guidelines of such a thing, and warn the people against it.

Show me God doing that in the Old Testement, with a clear understanding of it as such a horror must require.

Peace.

 

[javajo]

shame and everlasting contempt, dwelling with everlasting burnings...these show it is an everlasting state. God judges the wicked its all through both old and new testaments. Just how severe for each person, we do not know, but the words used to describe it, symbolic or not are not good. It is eternal separation from God, darkness, weeping, wailing, gnashing of teeth, pain, sorrow, no more hope, no love, nothing good, only bad. If a train were about to hit somebody, I would tell them even if they did not want to hear or believe it. Just as Jesus warned people with strong warnings, like that it would be better for a millstone to be hung around their neck and be cast into the sea than to harm one of his little ones, or for Judas, it would have been better for that man not to have been born at all. Yes, there is punishment for the wicked.

 

[mickiel]

shame and everlasting contempt, dwelling with everlasting burnings...these show it is an everlasting state. God judges the wicked its all through both old and new testaments. Just how severe for each person, we do not know, but the words used to describe it, symbolic or not are not good. It is eternal separation from God, darkness, weeping, wailing, gnashing of teeth, pain, sorrow, no more hope, no love, nothing good, only bad. If a train were about to hit somebody, I would tell them even if they did not want to hear or believe it. Just as Jesus warned people with strong warnings, like that it would be better for a millstone to be hung around their neck and be cast into the sea than to harm one of his little ones, or for Judas, it would have been better for that man not to have been born at all. Yes, there is punishment for the wicked.

I requested that you show punishment of the wicked in the old testement, show it. Find it for us, lets have the scriptures that show your lust for punishment of those who are not as righteous as you. Give us sinners old testement warnings of what would happen to them back then, then to us now.

Peace.

 

[javajo]

I requested that you show punishment of the wicked in the old testement, show it. Find it for us, lets have the scriptures that show your lust for punishment of those who are not as righteous as you. Give us sinners old testement warnings of what would happen to them back then, then to us now.

Peace.

I did

 

[mickiel]

I did

You showed a verse where Israel was distressed and Jerusalem was delevered, in vs. 6 God is called " A wealth of Salvation", you skip over that because of your mindset of condemnation. Verses 15-24 show a undesreving people forgiven their sins, vs. 24.

You may not see their forgiveness, but God sees it.

You are a hell condeming believer, no doubt.

I am glad Salvation is not in your hands.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

God is a " Wealth of Salvation";

hmm, I like that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

A time will come in which God will straighten every crooked posture of belief. The life of a human now, will be proof positive of what unbelief really is and does to human consciousness. It sends you off into Atheism , and begs for you to embrace the useless. Embrace the nothing rather than the something. Then you spew out nothing, thinking that it now means something.

A bent posture.

Peace.

 

[javajo]

I've read alot of the Christian Universalism stuff, must say, I like it. Basically nobody goes to Hell, everyone gets saved in the end. I read alot of other stuff, too. While I believe that as Daniel said, some will go to everlasting life and some to everlasting contempt, I pray for Hell to be empty and Heaven full. I pray all will turn to God who is, indeed, a wealth of salvation.

 

[mickiel]

I've read alot of the Christian Universalism stuff, must say, I like it. Basically nobody goes to Hell, everyone gets saved in the end. I read alot of other stuff, too. While I believe that as Daniel said, some will go to everlasting life and some to everlasting contempt, I pray for Hell to be empty and Heaven full. I pray all will turn to God who is, indeed, a wealth of salvation.

Well I like it too, its what I think the true gospel of good news should be. There is ample enough evidence of it in scripture, or the belief would be useless. Its a battle then of sorts, eternal hell against eternal life for all. Which then is closer to God himselfs heart?

Which is closer to your heart?

Peace.

 

[javajo]

Defintely eternal life for all. I still don't think it is the case, but I sure wish all men could be changed. I fear they lock God out, as if Hell were locked from the inside. I sure don't think anyone who calls to God will ever be turned away, but what of those who are so evil and unremorseful? How can they ever be reconciled, seeing they do not want to be? I still believe there will be a separation of the wheat and the tares, the sheep and the goats, I believe in God's love and fairness and also his justice, whatever that may entail. Hey, have a nice night, and I can dig where your are coming from. I'll add it to part of my studies. I try to study alot, cuz I am comitted to trying to learn and understand God and his truth.

 

[mickiel]

Defintely eternal life for all. I still don't think it is the case, but I sure wish all men could be changed. I fear they lock God out, as if Hell were locked from the inside. I sure don't think anyone who calls to God will ever be turned away, but what of those who are so evil and unremorseful? How can they ever be reconciled, seeing they do not want to be? I still believe there will be a separation of the wheat and the tares, the sheep and the goats, I believe in God's love and fairness and also his justice, whatever that may entail. Hey, have a nice night, and I can dig where your are coming from. I'll add it to part of my studies. I try to study alot, cuz I am comitted to trying to learn and understand God and his truth.

Goats in the bible always means demons, not humans. The hell you believe in was prepared for demons, not humans. Misinterpitation place humans where only demons are. Matt. 25:41. Why would God place humans in a place prepared, or preordained just for demons? Makes no sense to me.

Phil. 3:21 is how evil humans are reconciled, by Christ power to subject them to himself.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Defintely eternal life for all. I still don't think it is the case, but I sure wish all men could be changed. I fear they lock God out, as if Hell were locked from the inside. I sure don't think anyone who calls to God will ever be turned away, but what of those who are so evil and unremorseful? How can they ever be reconciled, seeing they do not want to be? I still believe there will be a separation of the wheat and the tares, the sheep and the goats, I believe in God's love and fairness and also his justice, whatever that may entail. Hey, have a nice night, and I can dig where your are coming from. I'll add it to part of my studies. I try to study alot, cuz I am comitted to trying to learn and understand God and his truth.

The apostle Paul was doing evil things, killing believers himself, he was reconciled. Moses was a murderer too, he was reconciled. Neither wanted to be, how many examples of Christ power do you need?

Peace.

 

[javajo]

Good point, what about someone like Hitler. I don't think he repented in this life, so will he be pardoned in the next?

 

[mickiel]

Good point, what about someone like Hitler. I don't think he repented in this life, so will he be pardoned in the next?

Within your mind there is a " Respector of persons evil", you tend to think they are too evil for the free gift. God is no respector of what humans have done evil. He is not willing that any perish but that all repent. He has not willed that any perish, but what he wills is that all repent. Its his will, and look, nothing can stop Gods will, nothing is impossible for him. The salvation of all may seem impossible to many believers, but its not with God. I cannot imagine God desireing something, and NOT getting what he desires, thats just impossible.

For eternal hell to exist, that means God would be making an eternal monument to sin, which is absurd.

Peace.