The Pope and the Holy Spirit Kill Perjurers

[izzy88]

Your original post to this thread seemed to down play the authenticity that the event actually even took place

It didn't; you evidently misunderstood what I was saying.

Your original post did not clearly state that even if Pope St. Peter was involved in the justified death of Ananias and Sapphira, it would be fully appropriate action for St. Peter to take, in leading Christ's Flock away from the tremendous hatred and disobedience to God in committing the sin of perjury.

My post stated that he wasn't responsible for their deaths in any capacity; as with all Popes, he was informing them of their sin, and God did the rest.

Do you agree that Pope St. Peter commits no sin or hatred for God or fellow man, when he does not warn Sapphira she could die, like her husband, if she now perjures herself, in great sin and hatred for God of perjury?

Her sin had already been committed - both she and her husband had already betrayed the Church, they were simply being called to account for their sin.

So do you agree that St. Peter, even if he were in colaboration with the Holy Spirit on the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira, he still has committed no sin?

Of course he committed no sin.

 

[Steven Merten]

Her sin had already been committed - both she and her husband had already betrayed the Church, they were simply being called to account for their sin.

Hello Izzy,
That is interesting. I have been thinking that it was Catholics, Ananias and Sapphira, lying to Holy Spirit in the Catholic Confessional, not Catholics Ananias and Sapphira, cheating God on their tithing, which is the sin for which they fell over dead committing.

Are you sure of your opinion on what actual sin caused Catholics Ananias and Sapphira to fall over dead?

Acts of the Apostles 5 Ananias and Sapphira.
A man named Ananias, however, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property. He retained for himself, with his wife’s knowledge, some of the purchase price, took the remainder, and put it at the feet of the apostles. But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart so that you lied to the holy Spirit and retained part of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain yours? And when it was sold, was it not still under your control? Why did you contrive this deed? You have lied not to human beings, but to God.” When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last, and great fear came upon all who heard of it. The young men came and wrapped him up, then carried him out and buried him.

After an interval of about three hours, his wife came in, unaware of what had happened. Peter said to her, “Tell me, did you sell the land for this amount?” She answered, “Yes, for that amount." Then Peter said to her, “Why did you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen, the footsteps of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” At once, she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men entered they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.​

 

[izzy88]

Hello Izzy,
That is interesting. I have been thinking that it was Catholics, Ananias and Sapphira, lying to Holy Spirit in the Catholic Confessional, not Catholics Ananias and Sapphira, cheating God on their tithing, which is the sin for which they fell over dead committing.

Are you sure of your opinion on what actually caused Catholics Ananias and Sapphira to fall over dead?

Acts of the Apostles 5 Ananias and Sapphira.
A man named Ananias, however, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property. He retained for himself, with his wife’s knowledge, some of the purchase price, took the remainder, and put it at the feet of the apostles. But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart so that you lied to the holy Spirit and retained part of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain yours? And when it was sold, was it not still under your control? Why did you contrive this deed? You have lied not to human beings, but to God.” When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last, and great fear came upon all who heard of it. The young men came and wrapped him up, then carried him out and buried him.

After an interval of about three hours, his wife came in, unaware of what had happened. Peter said to her, “Tell me, did you sell the land for this amount?” She answered, “Yes, for that amount." Then Peter said to her, “Why did you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen, the footsteps of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” At once, she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men entered they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.​

What exactly are you saying St. Peter should have done? I don't understand your point. He called her to account for her sin of dishonesty against the Church, of withholding money to keep after claiming they had given it all. This had already happened prior to the scene described in Acts 5, so what are you saying St. Peter should have done at that point?

 

[izzy88]

I have been thinking that it was Catholics, Ananias and Sapphira, lying to Holy Spirit in the Catholic Confessional,

Where are you getting that?

 

[Steven Merten]

What exactly are you saying St. Peter should have done? I don't understand your point. He called her to account for her sin of dishonesty against the Church, of withholding money to keep after claiming they had given it all. This had already happened prior to the scene described in Acts 5, so what are you saying St. Peter should have done at that point?

Hello izzy,
I am simply examining your point. I think we both agree that it is a, huge sin, in itself, to lie to God, while in the Real Presence of God, during the Sacrament of Reconciliation, right?

 

[izzy88]

Hello izzy,
I am simply examining your point. I think we both agree that it is a, huge sin, in itself, to lie to God, while in the Real Presence of God, during the Sacrament of Reconciliation, right?

But where are you getting that interpretation from?

 

[Steven Merten]

But where are you getting that interpretation from?

Hello izzy,
Are you Catholic? Whether it is the Great St. Peter, our first Pope himself, or a Catholic Priest in the Catholic Confessional today, it is Jesus Present in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, who is Forgiving you of your sins. So as spectacular as it may seem, the Presence of God at St. Peter's interrogation of Catholics Ananias and Sapphira, 2000 years ago, is the same exact Presence of God, Whom is forgiving a sinners of their sins, in the Catholic Confessional today. It is really Jesus absolving sinners of their sins in Jesus' Sacrament of Reconciliation'. You are a Catholic who believes in this, right?

 

[izzy88]

Hello izzy,
Are you Catholic? Whether it is the Great St. Peter, our first Pope himself, or a Catholic Priest in the Catholic Confessional today, it is Jesus Present in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, who is Forgiving you of your sins. So as spectacular as it may seem, the Presence of God at St. Peter's interrogation of Catholics Ananias and Sapphira, 2000 years ago, is the same exact Presence of God, Who is forgiving a sinner of their sins, in the Catholic Confessional today. You are a Catholic who believes in this, right?

Yes, but where in the text does it say they are lying to St. Peter in that moment? The deception had already occurred in lying about the money previously.

 

[Steven Merten]

Yes, but where in the text does it say they are lying to St. Peter in that moment? The deception had already occurred in lying about the money previously.

Hello Izzy,
Any true Catholic would know that it would not be wise to lie to St. Peter when He asks you a question, from the official Chair of St. Peter, authority from Jesus. Even if you think the real sin occurs when Catholics cheat on their tithing, St. Peter asking Catholics about their tithing, is a good time for Catholics to repent, seek Jesus' forgiveness, and not lie to Jesus, through lying to St. Peter. Like Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, Ananias and Sapphira, doubled down on their sinfulness, by continuing on with their evil and lying to God, rather than repent of the evil wicked hatred in disobedience to God, of sin. Catholics Ananias and Sapphira were still alive after cheating on their tithing to God. Catholics Ananias and Sapphira did not survive talking to St. Peter, in the Presence of God, where they lied to God.

 

[izzy88]

Hello Izzy,
Any true Catholic would know that it would not be wise to lie to St. Peter when He asks you a question, from the official Chair of St. Peter, authority from Jesus. Even if you think the real sin occurs when Catholics cheat on their tithing, St. Peter asking Catholics about their tithing, is a good time for Catholics to repent, seek Jesus' forgiveness, and not lie to Jesus, through lying to St. Peter. Like Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, Ananias and Sapphira, doubled down on their sinfulness, by continuing on with their evil and lying to God, rather than repent of the evil wicked hatred in disobedience to God, of sin. Catholics Ananias and Sapphira were still alive after cheating on their tithing to God. Catholics Ananias and Sapphira did not survive talking to St. Peter, in the Presence of God, where they lied to God.

Are you saying I'm not a true Catholic?

You still aren't understating my question: where, in the text, does it describe them lying to St. Peter while being questioned about it? What I see is that they had previously committed this sin of deception, and St. Peter is now confronting them about it.

 

[Steven Merten]

Acts of the Apostles 5 Ananias and Sapphira.
"and great fear came upon all who heard of it. The young men came and wrapped him up, then carried him out and buried him."

"When the young men entered they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things."
​

Hello all,
When, Acts of the Apostles, tells us, "great fear came upon all who heard of it" regarding the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira story, what do you think the people were fearing? Was it a tremendous fear of cheating God on their tithing, or tremendous fear of lying to our first Pope St. Peter, his Authority, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit present with him?

The Apostles did many great miracles in Acts of the Apostles. I think the reason Ananias and Sapphira fell over dead, was more to plant fear for lying to the authority in the Chair of St. Peter, than it was to plant fear in cheating on your tithing. Though both sins should be feared in committing.

In the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira, I think Jesus is really trying to establish fear and respect for His, chosen, authorized, first leader, of His Church, in the early creation of His Church.

What is everyone else opinions?

 

[izzy88]

Acts of the Apostles 5 Ananias and Sapphira.
"and great fear came upon all who heard of it. The young men came and wrapped him up, then carried him out and buried him."

"When the young men entered they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things."
​

Hello all,
When, Acts of the Apostles, tells us, "great fear came upon all who heard of it" regarding the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira story, what do you think the people were fearing? Was it a tremendous fear of cheating God on their tithing, or tremendous fear of lying to our first Pope St. Peter, his Authority, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit present with him?

The Apostles did many great miracles in Acts of the Apostles. I think the reason Ananias and Sapphira fell over dead, was more to plant fear for lying to the authority in the Chair of St. Peter, than it was to plant fear in cheating on your tithing. Though both sins should be feared in committing.

In the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira, I think Jesus is really trying to establish fear and respect for His, chosen, authorized, first leader, of His Church, in the early creation of His Church.

What is everyone else opinions?

Why can't you just answer my question? What are you basing your interpretation on? What specifically in the text indicates to you that they are, in that moment, lying to St. Peter amd denying their previous deception?

 

[Steven Merten]

Why can't you just answer my question? What are you basing your interpretation on? What specifically in the text indicates to you that they are, in that moment, lying to St. Peter amd denying their previous deception?

Hello Izzy,
We agree that a Pope pulling out his ‘Home Defender’ shotgun and killing an attacker is not hateful, evil or sinful, as long as the Pope does not hate the attacker in his heart.

We agree that the Pope auto-anathematizing all the people of the world who are not tithing properly, which would likely send billions of people to hell, is not hateful, evil or sinful, as long as the Pope does not hate those going to hell.

I think we can have different opinions as to whether the Holy Spirit chose to take the lives of Ananias and Sapphira, at the precise moment they lied to St. Peter and the Holy Spirit, for the reason that they lied to the Holy Spirit, as I feel, or it was just a coincident death from Ananias and Sapphira cheating on their tithe earlier, as you feel. As long as we agree that A Pope can kill for the protection of himself, or the protection of the Church, and not be evil, hateful and sinful, we are good.

 

[izzy88]

Hello Izzy,
We agree that a Pope pulling out his ‘Home Defender’ shotgun and killing an attacker is not hateful, evil or sinful, as long as the Pope does not hate the attacker in his heart.

We agree that the Pope auto-anathematizing all the people of the world who are not tithing properly, which would likely send billions of people to hell, is not hateful, evil or sinful, as long as the Pope does not hate those going to hell.

I think we can have different opinions as to whether the Holy Spirit chose to take the lives of Ananias and Sapphira, at the precise moment they lied to St. Peter and the Holy Spirit, for the reason that they lied to the Holy Spirit, as I feel, or it was just a coincident death from Ananias and Sapphira cheating on their tithe earlier, as you feel. As long as we agree that A Pope can kill for the protection of himself, or the protection of the Church, and not be evil, hateful and sinful, we are good.

I already said that nothing in the text indicates Peter was the one who killed them.

All I've asked you to do is cite which portions of the text you are appealing to for your interpretation, but for some reason you refuse to answer that question, so I don't really see what more there is to discuss.

You seem to be arguing that Peter was justified in killing them, because they lied during the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and I don't see how you're getting any of that from the text - you seem to be reading things into it that aren't there - but you refuse to engage with my inquiry, so that's that, I suppose.

 

[Steven Merten]

I already said that nothing in the text indicates Peter was the one who killed them.

All I've asked you to do is cite which portions of the text you are appealing to for your interpretation, but for some reason you refuse to answer that question, so I don't really see what more there is to discuss.

You seem to be arguing that Peter was justified in killing them, because they lied during the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and I don't see how you're getting any of that from the text - you seem to be reading things into it that aren't there - but you refuse to engage with my inquiry, so that's that, I suppose.

Hello izzy,
St. Peter could have just left Ananias' body right there in the court room. Three hours later, when Sapphira came in, I am sure she would have asked St. Peter how her husband died. So then St. Peter would have told her that, he asked Ananias how much he sold the tithe property for, and that Ananias told him x amount of dollars, and that Ananias immediately fell over dead, after telling him x amount of dollars. I am thinking that, had St. Peter showed Sapphira her husbands dead body, and had St. Peter told Sapphira that her husband fell over dead after telling him (St. Peter) that he sold the property for x amount of dollars, that she would have repented, told the truth, and lived. What do you think?

 

[Quiddity]

I'm not following. This staying at home must be getting to me.

 

[Steven Merten]

Matthew 24:36 The Unknown Day and Hour.
“But of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. For as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. In [those] days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day that Noah entered the ark. They did not know until the flood came and carried them all away. So will it be [also] at the coming of the Son of Man.​

When Jesus Comes in, The Second Coming, to kill, and hurl into hell, all the unrepentant perjurers, thieves and other evil doers, He will Come like ‘a thief in the night’.

When I was young, I actually spent many years contemplating God's Words, "I will open my mouth in parables, I will announce what has lain hidden from the foundation (of the world) (Matthew 13:34)." Why God would keep His Message of ‘The Kingdom of God’ hidden from us for many millennia, confused me greatly. Wouldn’t God want us to know about His ‘The Kingdom of God’, so we can go to Heaven? After may years of prayer and contemplation, it came to me. It was not God who was hiding ‘The Kingdom of God’ from man. It was man who was hiding God’s message of ‘The Kingdom of God’, from himself.

Jesus tells us no one will know when the Coming of the Son of Man will happen. Jesus tells us that the hour of the great tribulation of His Second Coming will be just like the day Noah entered the ark. Well, the survivors knew when God was Coming to kill all the unrepentant wicked, and cleans them from the earth, on the day Noah entered the ark.

Ananias and Sapphira, were Commanded by Jesus, through His Church, to come to Him, through His Church, and discuss (repent) their actions of cheating on their tithe gift to Him. Ananias and Sapphira, lied to Jesus, who was Present in His Church, through Jesus' Chair of St. Peter. Jesus killed Ananias and Sapphira for their unrepentant lies, theft and perjury. Ananias and Sapphira were taken totally by surprise, by the wrath of the Lamb. How could they have seen Jesus', our 'Just Judge', Wrath coming? (sarcasm) It is a Biblical recurring situation for the unrepentant wicked to blind themselves to God's impending Wrath.

Divine Mercy in My Soul, 848
Write down these words, My daughter. Speak to the world about My mercy; let all mankind recognize My unfathomable mercy. It is a sign for the end times; after it will come the day of justice.

Divine Mercy in My Soul, 635 The Blessed Virgin Mary :
... you have to speak to the world about His great mercy and prepare the world for the Second Coming of Him who will come, not as a merciful Savior, but as a just Judge. Oh, how terrible is that day! Determined is the day of justice, the day of divine wrath. The angels tremble before it. Speak to souls about this great mercy while it is still the time for [granting] mercy. If you keep silent now, you will be answering for a great number of souls on that terrible day. ... (635)

Divine Mercy in My Soul, 1146
He who refuses to pass through the door of My mercy must pass through the door of My justice... Today I heard a voice in my soul: Oh, if sinners knew My mercy, they would not perish in such great numbers. Tell sinful souls not to be afraid to approach Me; speak to them of My great mercy.

Mark 13:24 The Coming of the Son of Man.
But in those days after that tribulation the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see 'the Son of Man coming in the clouds' with great power and glory, and then he will send out the angels and gather [his] elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of the sky.​

 

[Steven Merten]

I am a Pro-Life Trump Republican Supporter!

Pro baby killer Democrats want to convince you that it was sinful and evil for Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and St. Peter, to Capital Punish Ananias and Sapphira. Somehow Pro baby killer Democrats feel that their stand against Jesus on Capital Punishment, justifies the Democratic stand supporting their murder of millions of babies in abortion.

Please stand with me and Jesus, and vote Pro Life, Republican, Trump, this November.

 

[metis]

I am a Pro-Life Trump Republican Supporter!

Then you are only fooling yourself, as the Pubs and Trump are definitely not pro-life after the person is borne. All too many Christian Pubs use abortion as a "wedge-issue" as if nothing else counts.

In today's day and age, capital punishment is not pro-life.

The NRA and their gun-happy proliferation agenda is not pro-life.

Going to war is not pro-life, with the possible exception of the Just-War Theory.

Kicking people off the ACA is not pro-life.

Reducing SNAP funding is not pro-life.

Loosening EPA regulations is not pro-life.

Not passing the Defense Production Act to help medical personnel and also supplying food for hungry families is not pro-life.

Cutting public education funding is not pro-life.

Etc.



And this post is a one-and-out.

 

[Steven Merten]

Then you are only fooling yourself, as the Pubs and Trump are definitely not pro-life after the person is borne. All too many Christian Pubs use abortion as a "wedge-issue" as if nothing else counts.

Hello metis,
So I think you are agreeing that Republican Trump is the only candidate trying to stop the American atrocity of millions of babies being murdered. The Democrats are all baby killers. We agree on this, correct?

So, yes, what to do about caring for babies after they are born? Jesus Commands His 2 billion followers to care for people after they are born. I figure that a tithe, 10% of 2 billion Christians on earth, would be one or two trillion dollars a year, that Jesus Wills His Followers, if they Love Jesus, to use to care for children after they are born. Unfortunately a great majority of Christians hate Jesus, through the least of Jesus' brothers, and simply sit back and watch the poor suffer and die, as they squander God's Portion of their income on themselves. We Christians have to go after these Christian murderers, who like, Catholics Ananias and Sapphira who cheated on their tithing, and were Capital Punished by St. Peter and the Holy Spirit for doing so.

I have a thread on this issue.
Global Socialism through Our King Jesus Christ’s’ Great Wealth on Earth.

Maybe if we pray hard enough, after President Trump has served his next four year term as Americas President, we can elect President Trump as Pope. Trump will focus on getting the Church to love Jesus through tithing their ten percent, to cloth, feed and shelter the poor, out of love for Jesus.

Matthew 25:31
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.' Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?' And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.' Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?' He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.' And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."​

Luke 16:19 The Rich Man and Lazarus
"There was a rich man who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man's table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores. When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and from the netherworld, where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he cried out, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.' Abraham replied, 'My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented. ​