The people who crucified Christ redeemed us all

[EtuMalku]

I was just picking one of the names of Satan.

"How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!

I guess there's still a few out there who don't get it . . . allow me.

Lucifer has nothing to do with the Christian bible other than being used as an adjective for the many (mis)understandings of the Morning Star/Day Star.

Jerome misunderstood the meaning of the Hebrew word 'heylel', and translated it into "lucifer", the Latin word meaning "light bearer" (from the Latin lux "light" and ferre "to bear or bring"). The word Lucifer at the time of the Vulgate and even at the time of the KJV translation, meant "morning star" or "day star" in reference to Venus. Jerome thought the passage was referring to Satan in addition to the king of Babylon, and because of this the use of the word "lucifer" made the transition from a term referring to Venus to now refering to Satan.

The word Lucifer can be traced to the ancient ideals surrounding the myths associated with the Morningstar and his brother the Evening Star. Early on these myths place the Morningstar into the role of attempted usurper who is defeated and becomes a ‘fallen’ deity as in Sumerian ans Assyrian cosmology.

Isaiah 14:12
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!"

This is in regards to the Babylonian King Nebechudezzner, relating him to the Morning Star which was used for thousands of years in a poetic way for a lower deity who attempts and fails to usurp a higher deity.

I suppose Jesus is referring to himself as a fallen angel associated with Satan?

Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

No, he is referring to himself as this “star” symbolism reflecting the Old Testament and inter-testament emphasis on the “celestial” nature of the coming Messiah, the light shining in the darkness, announcing the coming kingdom of God while the world remains under the curse of the Fall.

 

[Dave Watchman]

I guess there's still a few out there who don't get it . . . allow me.

Lucifer has nothing to do with the Christian bible other than being used as an adjective for the many (mis)understandings of the Morning Star/Day Star.

Jerome misunderstood the meaning of the Hebrew word 'heylel', and translated it into "lucifer", the Latin word meaning "light bearer" (from the Latin lux "light" and ferre "to bear or bring"). The word Lucifer at the time of the Vulgate and even at the time of the KJV translation, meant "morning star" or "day star" in reference to Venus. Jerome thought the passage was referring to Satan in addition to the king of Babylon, and because of this the use of the word "lucifer" made the transition from a term referring to Venus to now refering to Satan.

The word Lucifer can be traced to the ancient ideals surrounding the myths associated with the Morningstar and his brother the Evening Star. Early on these myths place the Morningstar into the role of attempted usurper who is defeated and becomes a ‘fallen’ deity as in Sumerian ans Assyrian cosmology.

Isaiah 14:12
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!"

This is in regards to the Babylonian King Nebechudezzner, relating him to the Morning Star which was used for thousands of years in a poetic way for a lower deity who attempts and fails to usurp a higher deity.

I suppose Jesus is referring to himself as a fallen angel associated with Satan?

Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

No, he is referring to himself as this “star” symbolism reflecting the Old Testament and inter-testament emphasis on the “celestial” nature of the coming Messiah, the light shining in the darkness, announcing the coming kingdom of God while the world remains under the curse of the Fall.

I somehow had the feeling you were going to set me straight on this.

But i still think Lucifer is just one of the names for Satan. Lucifer WAS Satan before the fall. Before he got kicked out of heaven. I still think Lucifer is “the devil who prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour”.

From my read on things, i can't see how worshiping the dragon Lucifer will lead to eternal life. It will only lead to destruction. He was a murderer from the beginning.

And so he must hate everything that God does or that Jesus creates, so he will certainly not hesitate in killing every human that he can.

At the 5th trumpet, the abyss will be opened and Lucifer will appear in our visible realm. The first thing that he is going to do is to terrorize the people who DO NOT have the seal of God on their foreheads. He is going to torment his own people.

Then at the 6th trumpet, he is going to be allowed to kill one third of mankind. Do you think he cares which ones read Anton Lavey's satanic bible? No way. He is going to have a field day.

The people who wrote this song knew.

Just call me Lucifer
Cause I'm in need of some restraint.

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul to waste

And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

I stuck around St. Petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain

I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah

I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made

I shouted out
Who killed the Kennedys?
When after all
It was you and me

Let me please introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached Bombay

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game, mm yeah

Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Lucifer
'Cause I'm in need of some restraint

So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, mm yeah

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, mm yeah
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, mm mean it, get down

Oh yeah, get on down
Oh yeah
Oh yeah

Tell me baby, what's my name
Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
Tell me baby, what's my name

I tell you one time, you're to blame
Oh, right
What's my name

Tell me, baby, what's my name
Tell me, sweetie, what's my name

Songwriters: Keith Richards / Mick Jagger

 

[EtuMalku]

I somehow had the feeling you were going to set me straight on this.

But i still think Lucifer is just one of the names for Satan. Lucifer WAS Satan before the fall. Before he got kicked out of heaven. I still think Lucifer is “the devil who prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour”.

From my read on things, i can't see how worshiping the dragon Lucifer will lead to eternal life. It will only lead to destruction. He was a murderer from the beginning.

And so he must hate everything that God does or that Jesus creates, so he will certainly not hesitate in killing every human that he can.

At the 5th trumpet, the abyss will be opened and Lucifer will appear in our visible realm. The first thing that he is going to do is to terrorize the people who DO NOT have the seal of God on their foreheads. He is going to torment his own people.

Then at the 6th trumpet, he is going to be allowed to kill one third of mankind. Do you think he cares which ones read Anton Lavey's satanic bible? No way. He is going to have a field day.

The people who wrote this song knew.

Just call me Lucifer
Cause I'm in need of some restraint.

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul to waste

And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

I stuck around St. Petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain

I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah

I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made

I shouted out
Who killed the Kennedys?
When after all
It was you and me

Let me please introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached Bombay

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game, mm yeah

Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Lucifer
'Cause I'm in need of some restraint

So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, mm yeah

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, mm yeah
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, mm mean it, get down

Oh yeah, get on down
Oh yeah
Oh yeah

Tell me baby, what's my name
Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
Tell me baby, what's my name

I tell you one time, you're to blame
Oh, right
What's my name

Tell me, baby, what's my name
Tell me, sweetie, what's my name

Songwriters: Keith Richards / Mick Jagger

Where do you find any evidence of Lucifer being another name for Satan?

 

[Dave Watchman]

Where do you find any evidence of Lucifer being another name for Satan?

2Thessalonians2.

The "man" of sin, is this the "man" that made the nations tremble? The Lawless One. The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan. Paul was drawing from Matthew 23, Daniel 8 and you guessed it, Isaiah 14.

The rebellion comes first, Lucifer appears and then his body is burned at the appearing of Christ.

But get this, his BODY dies, but his spirit continues to live. Everybody else is dead, ALL of his followers, the kings of the nations. But he will NOT be joined with them in burial. He roams the desolate earth for 1000 years. The same story we get from Isaiah 14.

"You will not be joined with them in burial,
because you have destroyed your land,
you have slain your people.

Lucifer kills his own people. He must go insane right at the end and try to take as many to their destruction as he can. Especially human beings. We are God's creation. And he hates God. Put 2 and 2 together, it's not going to be a pretty sight.

How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations!

For you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Yet you shall be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

They that see you shall narrowly look on you, and consider you, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

But you are cast out of your grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcass trodden under feet.

You shall not be joined with them in burial, because you have destroyed your land, and slain your people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.​

 

[EtuMalku]

2Thessalonians2.

The "man" of sin, is this the "man" that made the nations tremble? The Lawless One. The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan. Paul was drawing from Matthew 23, Daniel 8 and you guessed it, Isaiah 14.

well, this is about Satan, I don't see the name Lucifer anywhere

The same story we get from Isaiah 14.

"You will not be joined with them in burial,
because you have destroyed your land,
you have slain your people.

Lucifer kills his own people. He must go insane right at the end and try to take as many to their destruction as he can. Especially human beings. We are God's creation. And he hates God. Put 2 and 2 together, it's not going to be a pretty sight.

How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations!

For you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Yet you shall be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

They that see you shall narrowly look on you, and consider you, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

But you are cast out of your grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcass trodden under feet.

You shall not be joined with them in burial, because you have destroyed your land, and slain your people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.​

You obviously don't read anything I post, so why continue this conversation with you? Isaiah 14 is about the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar, not the Roman Lucifer.

(Latin) "quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes"

(English) "How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

Babylonian myth has the very first association to the concept of a 'fallen' deity and its association with the Morning Star. The Sumerian king Etana is driven by his pride to strive for the highest seat among the star‑gods on the Northern Mountain . . . but was hurled down by the supreme ruler of the Babylonian Olympus. So, it is not difficult to realize how Christianity (Jerome to be exact) used the poetic term 'Morning Star' to refer to a failed usurper such as Nebuchadnezzar.

 

[Twilight Hue]

According to Christian theology, it was the slaying of the sacrificial lamb of God that atoned for the world's sins.

This could only be accomplished by Christ being crucified. Therefore, somebody had to do the dirty work and slay the lamb prepared by God for the slaughter.

Therefore, the people who crucified Christ were doing the will of God and cooperating with the plan that redeemed the human race.

The people who crucified Christ, were like instruments in God's hands to complete our Redemption. Hence, I think good people as well as bad people are accomplishing the will of God.

God did repeatedly harden Pharaoh's heart. Scripture says God hardens the hearts of those he wills.

if Jesus got released instead of Barabbas, that would not have been God's will.

God certainly has quite an appetite for blood and gore.