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Featured The people who crucified Christ redeemed us all

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Spiderman, Oct 26, 2018.

  1. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    According to Christian theology, it was the slaying of the sacrificial lamb of God that atoned for the world's sins.

    This could only be accomplished by Christ being crucified. Therefore, somebody had to do the dirty work and slay the lamb prepared by God for the slaughter.

    Therefore, the people who crucified Christ were doing the will of God and cooperating with the plan that redeemed the human race.

    The people who crucified Christ, were like instruments in God's hands to complete our Redemption. Hence, I think good people as well as bad people are accomplishing the will of God.

    God did repeatedly harden Pharaoh's heart. Scripture says God hardens the hearts of those he wills.

    if Jesus got released instead of Barabbas, that would not have been God's will.
     
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  2. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    And don't even think about saying " I will harden Pharaoh's heart " doesn't mean " I will harden Pharaoh's heart". I hear that stupid argument all the time that the Bible doesn't mean what it says because so and so disagrees with it.

    It's a worthless argument that Christians make all the time for why they follow some of the Bible but explain away the rest that's inconvenient for them..

    Also, Christians are shooting themselves in the foot, when they explain away such scriptures, because they are saying that the Bible doesn't mean what it says. If repeatedly the Bible doesn't mean what it says, how do you know when it does mean what it says?

    Scripture says that God creates evil. Once again, Christians find some way of wiggling out of what they find inconvenient. Do the Crawfish Shuffle! ;)
     
  3. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    And then Christians say, I just know because the Holy Spirit opened my mind and heart to understand the scriptures. Catholics, Protestants, and Jehovah's Witnesses all say that they are following the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit gave them their understanding.

    It's quite a pathetic circus and a joke to behold (and even laugh worthy).
     
  4. allfoak

    allfoak Alchemist

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  5. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    The people who crucified Christ simply were merely low-life dirt-bags who killed a kindhearted and innocent man.

    As I've noted elsewhere in some other discussions about Christianity, Jesus's family tree has a time span of 77 generations listed between his generation and Adam whom the Bible claims was the "first man". Reference: ( Luke 3:23-38 )

    However, the Australian aborigines have evidently been in Australia for over a thousand consecutive generations. Reference: Aboriginal Australians - Wikipedia

    There have been hundreds of generations of Native Americans between the time their common ancestry migrated from Asia until the time of Christ.
    Reference: Native Americans in the United States - Wikipedia

    The Bible falsely claims there were only 77 generations between Christ and the first man; when people have indeed actually existed for thousands of generations, which proves the Bible and Christianity as being false.

    Adam as being the first man and perpetrator of "original sin" is an important premise of Christianity. If Adam wasn't the first man, then there isn't actually any "origin sin". Jesus supposedly died on the Cross to save humankind from "original sin". If there isn't any "original sin" from which to be saved, then Jesus Christ's death on the Cross is pretty pointless and meaningless. Evidently, there were many generations of people prior to the 76th generation before Christ spawned by Adam. So then, Adam, Eve and original sin are mythological. There is neither any "first man" nor "original sin" throughout human evolution. Thus, Jesus Christ having died on the cross to save mankind from "original sin" is not reality but is rather quite mythological.
     
  6. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    Kind of the same view I've heard on Judas. He was also doing God's will.
     
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  7. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Jesus knew what he would do in advance and still chose him
     
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  8. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    Good point.
     
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  9. Craig Sedok

    Craig Sedok Member

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    Foot before the fall. How can you speak for Jesus?
     
  10. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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    The people who crucified Christ were of their father the Devil.

    "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. - Jesus.​

    Ultimately it was Lucifer that crucified the Lord of Glory. The people of THAT prince were just doing his will. Their will was to do THEIR father's desires, not God's.

    "Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?​

    We're in a predicament now where the wheat are growing together with the tares. I wouldn't say that those people were in God's hands, they were motivated by the devil. But lets say you're right, they were doing the will of God. Should their evil behavior get them a free pass to eternal life in heaven?

    In that case we might find ourselves spending an eternity with people like Hitler or Paul Pol Pot.

    "What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory​

    I trust that the Lord will pick the proper companions for us to spend eternity with. Vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory.

    Peaceful Sabbath.
     
  11. Craig Sedok

    Craig Sedok Member

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    What this world needs is another type. Said to see and I will make a companion or find. Like Eeoryes house.
     
  12. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    I like your point. I would add this to it. Yes, the people crucifying christ did Gods will, but there INTENTION was selfish and hence, in there intent, they did satans will. But in regards to what got accomplished, Gods will and purpose came about.

    The jews intent was selfish and the roman soldeirs intent was to just do there job.
     
  13. Craig Sedok

    Craig Sedok Member

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    Got spanked many times as a kid. Then one time when i heard my dad come down I put a book in my pants behind. Thwap and thwap. He was satisifed and on his way up he heard me laughing. I tell only truth. Remember and "Member" I am a real person. I just know alot and lived alot and am alot. And I hate it.
     
  14. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein I'm not deaf, I'm just a real bad listener
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    He was executed by the Romans as a threat to the Empire, for political subversion. The Gospels are very biased. We don't know what the actual Jesus was like as a person, although you can argue that even the Gospels don't depict a person who was all that nice.
     
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  15. Craig Sedok

    Craig Sedok Member

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    To be executed and the musclemen stood proud. Jesus was just a man with different idea about why it was so unbalanced. Logistician. And he got nailed for it. Great
     
  16. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein I'm not deaf, I'm just a real bad listener
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    *Clicks ignore*
     
  17. Craig Sedok

    Craig Sedok Member

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    Just you
     
  18. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I think that is not the Biblical truth. Jesus had right to forgive sins, before his death, so death was not necessary for forgiveness.

    The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this that speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?" But Jesus, perceiving their thoughts, answered them, "Why are you reasoning so in your hearts? Which is easier to say, 'Your sins are forgiven you;' or to say, 'Arise and walk?' But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (he said to the paralyzed man), "I tell you, arise, and take up your cot, and go to your house." Immediately he rose up before them, and took up that which he was laying on, and departed to his house, glorifying God.
    Luke 5:21-25
     
  19. EtuMalku

    EtuMalku MERCURÆN LUCIFERIAN

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    Where do you get Lucifer from? I had hoped this Lucifer and Christianity was understood by now?
     
  20. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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    I was just picking one of the names of Satan.

    "How you are fallen from heaven,
    O Lucifer, son of the morning!

    Names of Satan
    The Bible calls Satan by many different names. Each name has a slightly different meaning. The many other names for Satan give a fuller picture of who Satan is and what he does. There are more names for Satan in the Bible than for anyone else except Jesus Christ.

    Abaddon
    Hebrew name for Satan meaning “Destruction”. “And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11

    Accuser
    “Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, ‘Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.’” Revelation 12:10

    Adversary
    “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” 1 Peter 5:8

    Angel of light
    “And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.” 2 Corinthians 11:14

    Angel of the bottomless pit
    “And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11

    Anointed covering cherub
    "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones." Ezekiel 28:14

    Antichrist
    “And every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.” 1 John 4:3

    Apollyon
    Greek name for Satan meaning “Destroyer”. “And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11

    Beast
    “9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, ‘If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.’” Revelation 14:9,10 Who is the beast?

    Beelzebub
    “Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, ‘This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.’” Matthew 12:24

    Belial
    “And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?” 2 Corinthians 6:15

    Deceiver
    “So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:9

    Devil
    “He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.” 1 John 3:8

    Dragon
    “So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:9

    Enemy
    “The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.” Matthew 13:39

    Evil one
    “I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.” John 17:15

    Father of lies
    “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.” John 8:44

    God of this age
    “Whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.” 2 Corinthians 4:4

    King of Babylon
    “That you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say: ‘How the oppressor has ceased, The golden city ceased!’” Isaiah 14:4

    King of the bottomless pit
    “And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11

    King of Tyre
    "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.”’” Ezekiel 28:12

    Lawless one
    “8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” 2 Thessalonians 2:8-10

    Leviathan
    “In that day the LORD with His severe sword, great and strong,
    Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent,
    Leviathan that twisted serpent;
    And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.” Isaiah 27:1

    Liar
    “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.” John 8:44

    Little horn
    “ 9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down.” Daniel 8:9-11

    Lucifer
    "12 How you are fallen from heaven,
    O Lucifer, son of the morning!
    How you are cut down to the ground,
    You who weakened the nations!
    13 For you have said in your heart:
    'I will ascend into heaven,
    I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
    I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
    On the farthest sides of the north;
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
    I will be like the Most High.'” Isaiah 14:12-14

    Man of sin
    “3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4

    Murderer
    “44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.” John 8:44

    Power of darkness
    “13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.” Colossians 1:13, 14

    Prince of the power of the air
    “1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience.” Ephesians 2:1,2

    Roaring lion
    “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” 1 Peter 5:8

    Rulers of the darkness
    “For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.” Ephesians 6:12

    Ruler of demons
    “But some of them said, ‘He casts out demons by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.’” Luke 11:15

    Ruler of this world
    “31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” John 12:31,32

    Satan
    “And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan, and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered to Him.” Mark 1:13

    Serpent of old
    “So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:9

    Son of perdition
    “3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4

    Star
    “Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit.” Revelation 9:1

    Tempter
    “Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, ‘If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.’” Matthew 4:3

    Thief
    “The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.” John 10:10

    Wicked one
    “Above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.” Ephesians 6:16

    This list of names for Satan has been taken from the New King James Version of the Bible.

    Names of Satan and other names for Satan
     
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