The mystery of the Bible

[Colt]

How?, I don't see this mentioned anywhere.


except that what ever meaning you come out with must fit perfectly with the rest of the bible, otherwise it's false.



Ezekiel 18:20

Obviously there is hidden meaning here since we all sin but do not die.
Is this death different from death in garden of Eden?

Spiritual death means to be separated from God, so how would you connect 2 cases of deaths to single meaning? (one if garden of Eden and other mentioned in Ezekiel)


What is not mentioned in the text?
knowledge of good and evil is mentioned, knowing truth is mentioned, death is mentioned, everything I claimed so far is mentioned but left to interpretation.



Fruit or apple, does this change anything? #3

Genesis 3

The Fall

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

Revelation 12:9

And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

The serpent is already evil, fallen and working to trick Eve.

Cain leaves his people and finds a wife in Nod on an ancient earth that was populated already.


13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

 

[paradox]

Revelation 12:9

And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

But you know revelation is unfulfilled and speaks about future times not past.
Mention of the serpent only confirms that there is no other devil, but one and same, one which first time appeared in Eden.

Cain leaves his people and finds a wife in Nod on an ancient earth that was populated already.

Genesis 4:17 doesn't say anything about pre Adam&Even people, his wife is actually his sister or perhaps his niece.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Fruit or apple, does this change anything? #3

If you are referring to this:

ok, fruit or apple does it really matter? the fact is that they ate it by the devil's intercession.

The fact could be they didnt listen to God.



It does change something.
It defines which fruit, which tree.

"Ye shall know them by their fruits". Matthew.

 

[Colt]

But you know revelation is unfulfilled and speaks about future times not past.
Mention of the serpent only confirms that there is no other devil, but one and same, one which first time appeared in Eden.


Genesis 4:17 doesn't say anything about pre Adam&Even people, his wife is actually his sister or perhaps his niece.

Revelation was referencing the serpent that mislead Eve! That is the point! Satan was ALREADY fallen, he spoke the language of Eve AND knew what Gods will was for her. "Did God really say"?

Gen 4:17 mention the people out in the world that Cain fears. We know that they existed becuse we keep digging up ancient bones all over our old earth.

When the Israelites were creation their story of origins, they used existing stories from Mesopotamian lore. They just assumed that Adam was the first human. They didn't know any better.

 

[rational experiences]

The only tree a human sees is on earth in the grounds body as nature.

The tree is rooted into gods earth body. Belonging exactly where it belongs.

Humans enter into the garden by theme.

By a theists human study and looking back. Looking back theorising. As a human storyteller.

In that theme a human is living as a good human but contemplating evil also. By looking back at form that they never were or owned. The tree...wood. The gardens natural ground position.

So they began talking words with a forked tongue. The serpent. Fooling theirself. Inferred to man owning penis.

Trees grew food to eat. Being good. Fruit of life.

Man the theist agreed with and was with and side by side with his brother....two. In agreement first. Then caused dispute. Displaced the mutual holy two lives on gods earth in gods heaven.

Equal answer was the human man and human woman. Holy two.

They took of the knowledge of removing the fruit of life. Evil chosen...dust nuclear.

Fruits were given to them by the garden......the bush of which they burnt.

So the words and language they had spoken about gods first holy forms by man had changed. Into evil words. Second words not first.

Life was evicted from its heavens because of the serpent. Forked words he had used. As man was both a good man but a fool of a man.

Changing natural words as first given to the son of man was by his holy human father.

He lied...denied his father's holy words as the son of man. Sacrificed the DNA life of the human baby inheritance. As he caused an unstable atmosphere.

Life on earth had began again in nature's ground as root regrowth. Only after ice the saviour had created a stable heavenly atmosphere. And the land became bared of ice and warmed....was the holy teaching.

Nature's bared roots re grew first. The giant life overthrown by ice the saviour.

Legal human choice. Never look back at evil. Don't discuss the dead.

 

[blü 2]

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

You'll find that 'subtle' is at the very least an equally valid translation with 'crafty'.

And the snake told no lies. Everything he said to Eve was correct. And Eve, you'll recall, opined that "the tree was to be desired to make one wise" (Genesis 3:6).

In your opinion, was her view wrong?

Is it a good thing or a bad thing that humans can tell what actions are good and what actions are bad?

 

[firedragon]

Obviously there is hidden meaning here since we all sin but do not die.

It's a spiritual death, and a spiritual living. The soul that sins shall die. You repent and you shall live.

Read the Bible fully. It's there in many places, and read some Jewish scholarship or commentary on it.

 

[Colt]

You'll find that 'subtle' is at the very least an equally valid translation with 'crafty'.

And the snake told no lies. Everything he said to Eve was correct. And Eve, you'll recall, opined that "the tree was to be desired to make one wise" (Genesis 3:6).

In your opinion, was her view wrong?

Is it a good thing or a bad thing that humans can tell what actions are good and what actions are bad?

There is much, much more to the story than the few lines that survived in oral tradition.

 

[QuestioningMind]

How?, I don't see this mentioned anywhere.


except that what ever meaning you come out with must fit perfectly with the rest of the bible, otherwise it's false.



Ezekiel 18:20

Obviously there is hidden meaning here since we all sin but do not die.
Is this death different from death in garden of Eden?

Spiritual death means to be separated from God, so how would you connect 2 cases of deaths to single meaning? (one if garden of Eden and other mentioned in Ezekiel)


What is not mentioned in the text?
knowledge of good and evil is mentioned, knowing truth is mentioned, death is mentioned, everything I claimed so far is mentioned but left to interpretation.



Fruit or apple, does this change anything? #3

except that what ever meaning you come out with must fit perfectly with the rest of the bible, otherwise it's false.

And as long as you can find that 'hidden meaning' you always will. Heck, there are Christians who can find a different 'hidden meaning' in the exact same passage.

 

[blü 2]

There is much, much more to the story than the few lines that survived in oral tradition.

Only if you make them up.

As the story itself as written in Genesis is made up.

There was no Genesis creation, either of the cosmos or of the animals. The universe is maybe 14 bn years old. The solar system ─ sun, earth, other planets, &c ─ is about 4.5 bn years old. Life on earth is about 3.5 bn years old. Genus Homo is maybe five million years old. Homo sap sap early version is about 250,000 years old. The modern version is maybe 50,000-70,000 years old. Civilization appears to be less than 10,000 years old. The God of the bible appears in history about 3500 years ago. [He] too has evolved since then, from tribal god with consort, to early bible god without consort but still a member of the Canaanity pantheon, then after the Babylonian captivity to the sole god, then in the first century CE part of him branches off and becomes the Christian god, and in the fourth century CE that Christian God becomes triune ... and so on till there are (so I read) more than 10,000 christian sects in the world.

Perfection is denied to humans, but my strong view is that you're still better off with science if truth is what you're after.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

except that what ever meaning you come out with must fit perfectly with the rest of the bible, otherwise it's false.

And as long as you can find that 'hidden meaning' you always will. Heck, there are Christians who can find a different 'hidden meaning' in the exact same passage.

I agree with both statements.

Like some people think animals will one day be at peace with each other as bible prophecy says.
Predator and prey together.

The prophecy tells of the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard with the kid, the lion eating straw with the Ox, and the serpent eating dust.

Some people think the prophecy means whatever they twist it into.
Some people think its just a made up story and will never happen.

People have waited for something that did not happen in their lifetime.


Could you please consider the possibility of the weaving of the words?

There is no magic miracles involved, and prophecy is not as future prediction. Prophecy as timeless as it happens within the mind of the individual.



The animals have always been in their places.

Look:

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Brass - Silver - Gold
Pomegranate - Fig - Apple
Cattle - Goats - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Straw - Dust - Stubble

The wolf is with the lamb in Group3, and the leopard is with the kid goat in Group2, and the lion is eating straw with the Ox in Group1.

I notice the serpent is eating the dust of Eden (the place of silver figs).

Do you understand?

It like learning to read.
Do not listen to the words because you will not be able to hear them. Observe the words. Then they happen as understanding is reached.

The words are symbols and prophecy is the weaving of symbols into a pattern.



I have shown you grouping of words.

"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord". Isaiah.


Each animal can further be confirmed of its position.
Its not just an assumption grouping based on Isaiah. I show those verses because its straight and simple.
We could go into more detail if you want consider the possibility of the animal positions further.

 

[rational experiences]

If a human who thinks tells stories as a human. Is still that same human today. Same exact living status as a human thinking using words and being human. First. Natural. First. Living.

You say I'm only as old as I quote I am as my one self human. Biology human. Age of human biology exact.

I only talk on behalf of one human that lives in self presence now. Any one human the same.

I cannot talk for anyone else. Exact.

You ask self a basic question. Do you human man self believe you write some human terms thought only....on a paper quoting such and such happened and next minute a sun existed.

The sun now not your origin thesis as it's different bodily?

The truthful answer is yes I believe what I quote. Is termed a lie.

You then remind him just how long created creation has existed before his first human experience. And that human has been a long time dead as compared to his now living life.

So you ask another question. Why do you exist?

Basic science. Human sex owning sin of what type a baby human body becomes. From not a baby ...sperm. From not a baby.... ovary.

Exact humans science. Exact without dispute.

Science now. Where science is explained now as and only as and by living humans.

So his brother human says. By the way. It's only about humans Living. An equal living lesser being life is an ape. An ape is closest in body via creation history. Living.

Less than your body. Just that appraisal in human sciences says and owns no human life. Thinking about it says a destroyed living human only...not an apes lived life living as natural ape.

Living position only is exact in science. Exact owning no human coercive egotist excuse or answer anywhere else.

Reason. In mass a human destroys by a numbered mass calculus ....not time as time in living life is experienced. They set alight a huge numbered mass and convert it. Said it's time as time to a human is alight.

That mass might have been sitting as mass in space for billions of years. Before a human decided to convert it.

By a God term... a human thinker.

So legal said don't theory about being dead as a human. Legal. Not religion. Not science...involving human bad behaviours. Legal.

Age in time for human biology only the living term was and had already been legally stated. Owning no legal dispute.

Occult themes dispute our living status non stop. The bible was a humans written proof that humans had theoried all biologies living existence on earth as a theist scientist. Falsely claimed.

To say...my human self living had used words by seeing as a human. Places a tree as my used first word as the tree. Position the tree as I human live is exact. Garden nature only.

Owning no human theists dispute. Already was legally stated exact.

First words one word legal status said by man humans father.

Theist disputed first human word use and ignored the relevance of a holy human father's word. Was our human teaching.

Theist lied.

In the beginning a human living owned a human life as human consciousness to use human words.

The only place the word was used. A human living naturally first.

The review. What false terms did a human man use. And hasn't stopped falsifying life on earth since?

Maths zero mother womb space.

In that exact place. No life or creation even exists. Was his thought upon woman reasoning as a human man.

Fake answers.

In real life an equal mutual human woman stood by his natural side.

First he built a fake mountain machine ∆ pyramid by his side. Then he O calculated volcanic reactive melt.

Earths real mountains hence were attacked.

The gardens nature changed

Human animals life biology was evicted by the human scientist.

Was exactly taught why.

No man was a God O mass.

The sun was termed a type of O God as mass.

So was earth considered a rock god.

By humans living on the planet first. The human warning.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I agree with both statements.

Like some people think animals will one day be at peace with each other as bible prophecy says.
Predator and prey together.

The prophecy tells of the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard with the kid, the lion eating straw with the Ox, and the serpent eating dust.

Some people think the prophecy means whatever they twist it into.
Some people think its just a made up story and will never happen.

People have waited for something that did not happen in their lifetime.


Could you please consider the possibility of the weaving of the words?

There is no magic miracles involved, and prophecy is not as future prediction. Prophecy as timeless as it happens within the mind of the individual.


The animals have always been in their places.

Look:

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Brass - Silver - Gold
Pomegranate - Fig - Apple
Cattle - Goats - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Straw - Dust - Stubble

The wolf is with the lamb in Group3, and the leopard is with the kid goat in Group2, and the lion is eating straw with the Ox in Group1.

I notice the serpent is eating the dust of Eden (the place of silver figs).

Do you understand?

It like learning to read.
Do not listen to the words because you will not be able to hear them. Observe the words. Then they happen as understanding is reached.

The words are symbols and prophecy is the weaving of symbols into a pattern.



I have shown you grouping of words.

"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord". Isaiah.


Each animal can further be confirmed of its position.
Its not just an assumption grouping based on Isaiah. I show those verses because its straight and simple.
We could go into more detail if you want consider the possibility of the animal positions further.

Could you please consider the possibility of the weaving of the words?

No, because the you can weave the words to mean whatever you want them to, making them absolutely meaningless.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Could you please consider the possibility of the weaving of the words?

No, because the you can weave the words to mean whatever you want them to, making them absolutely meaningless.

Or it becomes meaningful. You could check word placement yourself using a word search.

The meaning destroys war as it turns swords into dust.

Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow. Isaiah.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Straw - Dust - Stubble
Spear - Sword - Bow
Moon - Star - Sun


Can you notice the sword of the star?

The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear. Habbakuk.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Straw - Dust - Stubble
Spear - Sword - Bow
Moon - Star - Sun


The sword is a sword of dust. The sword is the sword of Eden:

So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Genesis


The stars do appear as figs as in the prophecy.

And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Revelation

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Pomegranate - Fig - Apple
Moon - Star - Sun.

I noticed the silver figs shining like stars.


Word search:
BibleGateway - Keyword Search: sword

 

[QuestioningMind]

Or it becomes meaningful. You could check word placement yourself using a word search.

The meaning destroys war as it turns swords into dust.

Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow. Isaiah.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Straw - Dust - Stubble
Spear - Sword - Bow
Moon - Star - Sun


Can you notice the sword of the star?

The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear. Habbakuk.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Straw - Dust - Stubble
Spear - Sword - Bow
Moon - Star - Sun


The sword is a sword of dust. The sword is the sword of Eden:

So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Genesis


The stars do appear as figs as in the prophecy.

And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Revelation

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Pomegranate - Fig - Apple
Moon - Star - Sun.

I noticed the silver figs shining like stars.


Word search:
BibleGateway - Keyword Search: sword

Convincing yourself that you've found meaning in the meaningless is a phenomenal waste of time and energy.

 

[Colt]

Only if you make them up.

As the story itself as written in Genesis is made up.

There was no Genesis creation, either of the cosmos or of the animals. The universe is maybe 14 bn years old. The solar system ─ sun, earth, other planets, &c ─ is about 4.5 bn years old. Life on earth is about 3.5 bn years old. Genus Homo is maybe five million years old. Homo sap sap early version is about 250,000 years old. The modern version is maybe 50,000-70,000 years old. Civilization appears to be less than 10,000 years old. The God of the bible appears in history about 3500 years ago. [He] too has evolved since then, from tribal god with consort, to early bible god without consort but still a member of the Canaanity pantheon, then after the Babylonian captivity to the sole god, then in the first century CE part of him branches off and becomes the Christian god, and in the fourth century CE that Christian God becomes triune ... and so on till there are (so I read) more than 10,000 christian sects in the world.

Perfection is denied to humans, but my strong view is that you're still better off with science if truth is what you're after.

Genesis is largely a creation of the Israelites based on real events. Adam and Eve were 2 incarnate celestial beings who came from another world to our world which was already fallen.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Convincing yourself that you've found meaning in the meaningless is a phenomenal waste of time and energy.

According to prophesy the wolf is with the lamb, the leopard with the kid goat, and the lion does eat straw with the Ox.

And as I have showed you.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Straw - Dust - Stubble
Cattle - Goats - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf

It is accurate. Do you deny that?

So why is that unacceptable to you?
Why is it not worth your consideration?

 

[blü 2]

Genesis is largely a creation of the Israelites based on real events. Adam and Eve were 2 incarnate celestial beings who came from another world to our world which was already fallen.

That rings a bell ─ have you read C.S. Lewis's trilogy, Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra (also found with the title Voyage to Venus) and That Hideous Strength?

In many ways they overlap with what you said above.

 

[Colt]

That rings a bell ─ have you read C.S. Lewis's trilogy, Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra (also found with the title Voyage to Venus) and That Hideous Strength?

In many ways they overlap with what you said above.

I haven't read those but my Bible is the Urantia Book which has an explanation that makes more sense to me in light of the fragments of Genesis that briefly mention Adam and Eve, Eve somehow coming out of Adams rib, a crafty beast, a sin that brought biological consequences to the human race etc.

These links are from the Urantia Book which is free online and has no copyright.

1. Adam and Eve on Jerusem
2. Arrival of Adam and Eve
3. Adam and Eve Learn about the Planet
4. The First Upheaval
5. Adam's Administration
6. Home Life of Adam and Eve
7. Life in the Garden
8. The Legend of Creation

1. The Urantia Problem
2. Caligastia's Plot
3. The Temptation of Eve
4. The Realization of Default
5. Repercussions of Default
6. Adam and Eve Leave the Garden
7. Degradation of Adam and Eve
8. The So-Called Fall of Man

IMOP

 

[QuestioningMind]

According to prophesy the wolf is with the lamb, the leopard with the kid goat, and the lion does eat straw with the Ox.

And as I have showed you.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Straw - Dust - Stubble
Cattle - Goats - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf

It is accurate. Do you deny that?

So why is that unacceptable to you?
Why is it not worth your consideration?

You simply keep repeating the same nonsense and acting as if you'd said something comprehensible and worthy of consideration. Try telling me what you're trying to say in a DIFFRENT way. IF you truly understand it and it genuinely makes sense then you SHOULD be able to express it from a totally different perspective.