The Most “Post-Christian” Cities in America

[sun rise]

America is not supposed to be under a "Caesar". The last king we had was king George ... People forget we basically declared independence because of taxes ...

So taxes are a religious matter to you since this thread is about Christianity.

I'm not surprised given the marriage of fundamentalist and evangelical Christianity with right wing politics to the point where I suspect that some think that the Bible speaks to lower taxes.

 

[Road Warrior]

Don't mistake ardent conviction for self righteousness. In a debate one is expected to dig in one's heels to defend a position. But if this comes across as obnoxious and self righteous perhaps you don't quite understand unstructured debate. Often politeness gives way to emotional exuberance; however, this is not at all unique to theist-atheist debates.

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So how do you tell the difference between an ardently convicted Christian and a self-righteous Christian? Does the same criteria apply to atheists, Muslims or anyone else?

 

[Skwim]

So how do you tell the difference between an ardently convicted Christian and a self-righteous Christian? Does the same criteria apply to atheists, Muslims or anyone else?

Unless the behavior is blatantly egregious I don't bother with the labels.

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[Road Warrior]

Unless the behavior blatantly egregious I don't bother with the labels.

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You are free to believe you don't.

 

[Valjean]

Anyone else see the irony in self-righteous atheists clamoring about being free of self-righteous Christians?

I'm missing it. Enlighten me.

Excellent point. Also include, much to the consternation of atheists, the fact their beliefs are as much a religion as anything else.

But they have no beliefs -- no doctrine, no rituals -- nothing.

 

[74x12]

So taxes are a religious matter to you since this thread is about Christianity.

I'm not surprised given the marriage of fundamentalist and evangelical Christianity with right wing politics to the point where I suspect that some think that the Bible speaks to lower taxes.

You're jumping to conclusions. That is not my point.

That is reference to the government and not to an actual emperor.

Taxes were part of it, but not the only reason that we declared independence.

My point is that the USA is supposed to be different. Not just another totalitarian regime. To compare the US government to Caesar is to admit that the US government is totalitarian. It is the same thing as tearing up the declaration of independence since they supposedly declared independence from such types of governance. We supposedly got rid of our Caesar (King George).

However, I have to agree that from the evidence we've seen so far this is nothing more than a farce and the USA is ruled by the same old nonsense. All the talk of personal liberty etc. is just to keep people bamboozled.

 

[Salvador]

During 2015, there were a total combined 972 homicides in the top 20 of these post-Christian cities. http://www.city-data.com/crime/

According to the 2010 Census count, these top 20 post-Christian cities have a combined population of ca. 14.956 million persons.

972 homicides out of ca. 14.956 million persons equals a homicide rate of approximately 6.5 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants, which is more than the 2015 year national homicide rate of 4.9 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants.

In conclusion, these top 20 post Christian cities have a nearly 32 percent higher rate a homicide than the overall national homicide rate.

 

[Salvador]

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The Barna group, a Christian polling firm, has released its latest list of the most “post-Christian” cities in the country. It’s meant to serve as a warning, but it nicely doubles as a map of places you wouldn’t mind moving to one day. (Notice the lack of cities in the Deep South.)

To qualify as “post-Christian,” individuals must meet nine or more of our 16 criteria (listed below), which identify a lack of Christian identity, belief and practice. These factors include whether individuals identify as atheist, have never made a commitment to Jesus, have not attended church in the last year or have not read the Bible in the last week. These kinds of questions — compared to ticking the “Christian” box in a census — get beyond how people loosely identify themselves (affiliation) and to the core of what people actually believe and how they behave as a result of their belief (practice). These indicators give a much more accurate picture of belief and unbelief in America.​

In other words, these are the cities where religion is most likely to be considered an afterthought. 20 of them have a post-Christian “score” of 50% or greater — only 10 cities fit that description two years ago — and many are found in the Northeast and West Coast.

That list of criteria makes for a nice checklist, too. What’s your score?!

Do not believe in God
Disagree that faith is important in their lives
Have not prayed to God (in the last week)
Have never made a commitment to Jesus
Disagree the Bible is accurate
Have not donated money to a church (in the last year)
Have not attended a Christian church (in the last 6 months)
Agree that Jesus committed sins
Do not feel a responsibility to “share their faith”
Have not read the Bible (in the last week)
Have not volunteered at church (in the last week)
Have not attended Sunday school (in the last week)
Have not attended religious small group (in the last week)
Bible engagement scale: low (have not read the Bible in the past week and disagree strongly or somewhat that the Bible is accurate)
Not Born Again

But at least it gives Godless Americans a goal. The highest market on the list, Springfield-Holyoke, Massachusetts, only has a score of 66%. That includes 87% of people who haven’t read the Bible in the past week, 65% who haven’t attended a Christian church in the past six months, and 47% who haven’t prayed to God in the past week.
source​

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In the year 2015, the top 20 most highly ranked post-Christian cities as a group had a homicide rate of 6.5 murders per 100,000 persons, which compares unfavorable to the overall year 2015 national homicide rate of 4.9 murders per 100,000 inhabitants.

Based on the facts as I've presented, do you think populations losing their Christian identify might become more homicidal overall than those population who have maintained a strong Christian identity?

 

[Valjean]

Crime rates coincide with religiosity? I thought the highest crime rates were in the Bible Belt.

 

[Road Warrior]

I'm missing it. Enlighten me.



But they have no beliefs -- do doctrine, no rituals -- nothing.

Enlightenment, like faith, comes from within. People can talk about it, but unless a person desires to have it, they never will.

Not sure what you are asking but if you're talking about atheists, they have their beliefs. They believe they are correct without evidence of those beliefs. Sure, they wuss out with "It's disbelief, dammit!" but it's a faith. No facts, no evidence, just a belief.

 

[Road Warrior]

Crime rates coincide with religiosity? I thought the highest crime rates were in the Bible Belt.

Crime rates vary with human culture. Don't blame religion, don't blame guns, cars or any other material object. Just blame the culture where it happens.

 

[Salvador]

Crime rates coincide with religiosity? I thought the highest crime rates were in the Bible Belt.

According to the American Bible Society, the 20 most Bible-minded cities are : 1 Chattanooga, TN 52% 2 Birmingham / Anniston / Tuscaloosa, AL 51% 3 Roanoke / Lynchburg, VA 48% 4 Shreveport, LA 47% 5 Tri-Cities, TN 47% 6 Charlotte, NC 46% 7 Little Rock / Pine Bluff, AR 45% 8 Knoxville, TN 45% 9 Greenville / Spartanburg 44% Anderson, SC / Ashville, NC 10 Lexington, KY 44% 11 Springfield, MO 44% 12 Huntsville-Decatur-Florence, AL 42% 13 Savannah, GA 42% 14 Oklahoma City, OK 41% 15 Jackson, MS 41% 16 Nashville, TN 39% 17 Louisville, KY 39% 18 Wichita / Hutchinson, KS 39% 19 Baton Rouge, LA 38% 20 Grand Rapids / Kalamazoo / Battle Creek, MI

Reference: The Most Bible-Minded Cities in America | American Bible Society

In 2015, there were 775 homicides in the top 20 most Bible-minded cities. http://www.city-data.com/crime/

According to the 2010 Census count, these top 20 most Bible-minded cities as a group have a total combined population of ca. 6.347 million.

775 homicides out of 6.347 million inhabitants equals a homicide rate of ca. 12.2 homicides per 100,000 persons, the homicide rate of the top 20 most highly Bible-minded cities' population as a group is nearly twice that of the overall 2015 national homicide rate.

The top 20 most Bible-minded cities as a population group have nearly an 88 percent greater homicide rate than that of those top 20 most highly post Christian cities' population group.

I must do further research, because I just can't believe highly Bible-minded people as a group would be twice as homicidal as the overall general population.

 

[Valjean]

Enlightenment, like faith, comes from within. People can talk about it, but unless a person desires to have it, they never will.

People believe in all sorts of things without desiring to believe them. They accept whatever the social norm is.
"Enlightenment?" Define it.

Not sure what you are asking but if you're talking about atheists, they have their beliefs. They believe they are correct without evidence of those beliefs. Sure, they wuss out with "It's disbelief, dammit!" but it's a faith. No facts, no evidence, just a belief.

No!
It's the religious who believe they are correct without evidence. The atheists defer belief pending evidence.
Lack of belief is the epistemic default position. Atheists don't have 'faith' in any unsupported religious doctrine. They lack faith.

 

[Road Warrior]

People believe in all sorts of things without desiring to believe them. They accept whatever the social norm is.
"Enlightenment?" Define it.


No!
It's the religious who believe they are correct without evidence. The atheists defer belief pending evidence.
Lack of belief is the epistemic default position. Atheists don't have 'faith' in any unsupported religious doctrine. They lack faith.

Ummm, only the stupid ones less intelligent people accept things without question. Smarter people investigate.

Knowledge, awareness.

Disagreed. I know that upsets you but it's true. Atheists, like Theists, vary in their beliefs but in general they strongly believe their beliefs.

 

[Salvador]

Crime rates coincide with religiosity? I thought the highest crime rates were in the Bible Belt.

Correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation. Just because crime statistics show the homicide rate in the Bible Belt is twice that of the overall national homicide rate, doesn't mean Bible-minded people are twice as homicidal as irreligious people. There must be other factors than religion to explain why the Bible Belt has twice the homicide rate as the overall national homicide rate. Right?

 

[Salvador]

Crime rates vary with human culture. Don't blame religion, don't blame guns, cars or any other material object. Just blame the culture where it happens.

Besides religion or guns, why is the Bible Belt's homicide rate nearly twice that of the national overall homicide rate?

 

[Road Warrior]

Besides religion or guns, why is the Bible Belt's homicide rate nearly twice that of the national overall homicide rate?

I haven't seen any data on that assessment. Do you have such data? Overall, I know that culture plays a major part in homicide and suicide rates. Look at the various demographics of the US (or any country) and question why people kill themselves or others.

What is your theory(theories)?

 

[Valjean]

According to the American Bible Society, the 20 most Bible-minded cities are : 1 Chattanooga, TN 52% 2 Birmingham / Anniston / Tuscaloosa, AL 51% 3 Roanoke / Lynchburg, VA 48% 4 Shreveport, LA 47% 5 Tri-Cities, TN 47% 6 Charlotte, NC 46% 7 Little Rock / Pine Bluff, AR 45% 8 Knoxville, TN 45% 9 Greenville / Spartanburg 44% Anderson, SC / Ashville, NC 10 Lexington, KY 44% 11 Springfield, MO 44% 12 Huntsville-Decatur-Florence, AL 42% 13 Savannah, GA 42% 14 Oklahoma City, OK 41% 15 Jackson, MS 41% 16 Nashville, TN 39% 17 Louisville, KY 39% 18 Wichita / Hutchinson, KS 39% 19 Baton Rouge, LA 38% 20 Grand Rapids / Kalamazoo / Battle Creek, MI

Reference: The Most Bible-Minded Cities in America | American Bible Society
"In 2015, there were 775 homicides in the top 20 most Bible-minded cities. http://www.city-data.com/crime/
According to the 2010 Census count, these top 20 most Bible-minded cities as a group have a total combined population of ca. 6.347 million.

775 homicides out of 6.347 million inhabitants equals a homicide rate of ca. 12.2 homicides per 100,000 persons, the homicide rate of the top 20 most highly Bible-minded cities' population as a group is nearly twice that of the overall 2015 national homicide rate.

The top 20 most Bible-minded cities as a population group have nearly an 88 percent greater homicide rate than that of those top 20 most highly post Christian cities' population group."

I must do further research, because I just can't believe highly Bible-minded people as a group would be twice as homicidal as the overall general population.

Misinformation and Facts about Secularism and Religion
"Citing four different studies, Zuckerman states: "Murder rates are actually lower in more secular nations and higher in more religious nations where belief in God is widespread." He also states: "Of the top 50 safest cities in the world, nearly all are in relatively non-religious countries."

Within the United States, we see the same pattern. Citing census data, he writes: "And within America, the states with the highest murder rates tend to be the highly religious, such as Louisiana and Alabama, but the states with the lowest murder rates tend to be the among the least religious in the country, such as Vermont and Oregon."

And these findings are not limited to murder rates, as rates of all violent crime tend to be higher in "religious" states. Zuckerman also points out that atheists are very much under-represented in the American prison population (only 0.2%)."

Why The South Is More Violent Than The Rest Of America
Bible Belt Has Most Sinners, Research Suggests: How Sinful is Your State?

 

[Salvador]

I haven't seen any data on that assessment. Do you have such data? Overall, I know that culture plays a major part in homicide and suicide rates. Look at the various demographics of the US (or any country) and question why people kill themselves or others.

What is your theory(theories)?

I'm going to hypothesize the climate is a major factor as to why the Bible Belt is more prone to violence than other regions. Many of the Bible Belt cities are in the south where the heat there makes people loose their cool or more criminally active there than how they would act in a more mild climate.

 

[Salvador]

Misinformation and Facts about Secularism and Religion
"Citing four different studies, Zuckerman states: "Murder rates are actually lower in more secular nations and higher in more religious nations where belief in God is widespread." He also states: "Of the top 50 safest cities in the world, nearly all are in relatively non-religious countries."


Within the United States, we see the same pattern. Citing census data, he writes: "And within America, the states with the highest murder rates tend to be the highly religious, such as Louisiana and Alabama, but the states with the lowest murder rates tend to be the among the least religious in the country, such as Vermont and Oregon."


And these findings are not limited to murder rates, as rates of all violent crime tend to be higher in "religious" states. Zuckerman also points out that atheists are very much under-represented in the American prison population (only 0.2%)."

Why The South Is More Violent Than The Rest Of America
Bible Belt Has Most Sinners, Research Suggests: How Sinful is Your State?

I've seen the crime stats, I can't deny the Bible Belt has more violence. However, I'm going to hypothesize that climate is a major factor rather than the Bible as to why the Bible Belt has more violence than other regions. Most of the Bible Belt is in the south where there are extremely hot summers, this could make a person more criminally active than if he were in a less stressful environment.