The Me Generation

[Shadow Wolf]

In my experience, trying to explain my quirks has been less successful in earning acceptance/respect

If someone can't accept me and respect me for how I am then I just cannot be arsed to give a damn if this person respects me or not.
And I shouldn't have to even explain myself. Take me for how I am or bugger off.

than trying to change my behavior.

Why change your behaviors? Sounds like a way to live someone else's life.

But that's not to say I wouldn't be off-put if someone couldn't control their emotions or wasn't receiving my nonverbal language that they are bothering me in some form or another so I'd say these are important skills for people to learn instead of trying to excuse it.

Then that is entirely and completely on you. I try to be direct and clear, others should return the favor because none of us are mind readers and even neurotypicals at times struggle with these indirect and not always clear means of communication.
And what's with the obsession with controlling emotions? Why? What's wrong with it? Could it be others are too emotionally stiff? Could it be they are bothered by strong reminders we're still human and do not have the control we like to think we do?

 

[muichimotsu]

No. Why would I? Women can be muscular. Men can be thin. Women can enjoy football. Men can like ballet.

Yet you still use the binary, do you not? That's a descriptive structure, it's not normative at all

Why do you have the problem with any kind of idea where one's persistent sense of identity might not match up with something you've reduced them to in a box for how their sense of self as it relates to things that you admit are not reducible to either gender regarding virtually anything else? It's not hurting you or anyone when someone is trying to be more like their true self when the only thing that's "threatened" is antiquated ideas that treat our bodies as if they are the sole source of our identity rather than our experiences as people irrespective of that. A woman doesn't cease to be a mother when she loses her uterus, a man doesn't lose his masculinity if his genitals are lost in an accident and intersex people are not someone we should expect to just fit into the binary society insists upon

 

[The Sum of Awe]

If someone can't accept me and respect me for how I am then I just cannot be arsed to give a damn if this person respects me or not.
And I shouldn't have to even explain myself. Take me for how I am or bugger off.

Why change your behaviors? Sounds like a way to live someone else's life.

Because I do it within my realm of comfort. i think living someone else's life would imply that I'm doing things that make me uncomfortable to appease others, whereas I change my behaviors to be more approachable. Would you say someone who is close-minded should change their intolerant-based behaviors if they are looking to be seen as a more respectable person? Or someone who gets angry easily should learn to take a breath every now and again? Or someone who gets upset over small things should learn to take things less seriously? --- Wouldn't you agree there's some behavioral patterns that people should change instead of just accepting?

Then that is entirely and completely on you. I try to be direct and clear, others should return the favor because none of us are mind readers and even neurotypicals at times struggle with these indirect and not always clear means of communication.

It's not always easy to be direct about how you feel because you don't know how the other person will react. Some examples that I don't like to get direct about is if someone is cutting people off a lot in a conversation (something myself used to be often guilty of before becoming aware of it and changing it): I wouldn't want to directly confront this person about it, but I would like to show them that it's rude all the while. So I might instead raise my voice, interrupt their interruption, or ask the person they interrupted to repeat themselves because I didn't hear them.

And what's with the obsession with controlling emotions? Why? What's wrong with it? Could it be others are too emotionally stiff? Could it be they are bothered by strong reminders we're still human and do not have the control we like to think we do?

Emotional control is a skill I think most people can learn and should learn if they put their mind to it. I'm not saying everyone should be emotionless, but to take a deep breath and act rationally about a situation when they can. I don't blame anyone for getting emotional, like you said we're all human, but I feel more comfortable around people that I know won't explode at me.

 

[Reyn]

Yet you still use the binary, do you not? That's a descriptive structure, it's not normative at all

Why do you have the problem with any kind of idea where one's persistent sense of identity might not match up with something you've reduced them to in a box for how their sense of self as it relates to things that you admit are not reducible to either gender regarding virtually anything else? It's not hurting you or anyone when someone is trying to be more like their true self when the only thing that's "threatened" is antiquated ideas that treat our bodies as if they are the sole source of our identity rather than our experiences as people irrespective of that. A woman doesn't cease to be a mother when she loses her uterus, a man doesn't lose his masculinity if his genitals are lost in an accident and intersex people are not someone we should expect to just fit into the binary society insists upon

It has become bothersome to me, honestly. I used to be more okay with it all. I used their pronouns and tried to believe their claims. However, when pronouns went weird, like catself… when they started marketing to kids and mutilating them for profit, I had enough. I also finally decided I had enough when every occult group I was part of, started being about these people. They make it about them. They go into sisterhoods and make it about their gender drama. I’m just done.

 

[gnomon]

Nothing irritates me more than people who are so self absorbed and oblivious to the outside world, they expect others to use special words to other people about them. I'm talking about pronoun fixation, by the way. The second thing which irritates me is how people have their various disorders listed, as if to showcase them. First, I don't know why they think people care if they are autistic, ADHD, or whatever else, including their status as indigenous or black.

Someone please explain all this to me? Am I missing something here because when I was growing up, this wasn't a thing. What was a thing was people introducing themselves as a gay man or a lesbian. I found that irritating as well, since I didn't see reason to know the sexual preferences of strangers and co-workers.

Actually, it is irritating. When I was in a halfway house at Ridgeview Hospital one of our fellows would always introduce himself with a menu of mental disorders which was quite insulting to most of the other members in the house. He would just lay out a litany of mental illnesses in order to make himself stand out. But here is the simple thing.

I learned his name and talked to him.

 

[Reyn]

Actually, it is irritating. When I was in a halfway house at Ridgeview Hospital one of our fellows would always introduce himself with a menu of mental disorders which was quite insulting to most of the other members in the house. He would just lay out a litany of mental illnesses in order to make himself stand out. But here is the simple thing.

I learned his name and talked to him.

This doesn't make sense to me but okay...

 

[muichimotsu]

It has become bothersome to me, honestly. I used to be more okay with it all. I used their pronouns and tried to believe their claims. However, when pronouns went weird, like catself… when they started marketing to kids and mutilating them for profit, I had enough. I also finally decided I had enough when every occult group I was part of, started being about these people. They make it about them. They go into sisterhoods and make it about their gender drama. I’m just done.

You assume the example you used was common, first off, and secondly act like it's remotely something being normalized at all, because that's on the level of transspecies or such, which isn't even in the same category as basic human understanding of those identities we associate to "men" and "women"

No one's doing that, you'd have to actually offer support instead of fearmongering claims that it's being done, that you heard it from someone who also didn't offer any substantiation of it. Puberty blockers are not HRT (hormone replacement therapy) and certainly not something that I'm pretty sure is not done at all and at best has the most anecdotal examples that may be a thing in terms of GRS (gender reassignment surgery).

Gender affirming care is far more broad than the stuff you fixate on and distort the facts about them, as if you think everyone just grows out of it. My friend only came out as trans in his 30s, though he had confided in me and others that they honestly were uncertain on how they felt about their body relative to how they felt as a person as far back as their 20s

Not sure when the occult came up here, that seems like something you're insinuating into it

And the way to address what you see as a problem is not to regard people with contempt, that only reinforces the divide you supposedly want to bridge, yet are doing everything to continue the delusion that you're right without actually offering any argument, just condemnation, demonization, using them as a scapegoat for any societal ill you want to complain about without considering other factors

 

[Reyn]

You assume the example you used was common, first off, and secondly act like it's remotely something being normalized at all, because that's on the level of transspecies or such, which isn't even in the same category as basic human understanding of those identities we associate to "men" and "women"

No one's doing that, you'd have to actually offer support instead of fearmongering claims that it's being done, that you heard it from someone who also didn't offer any substantiation of it. Puberty blockers are not HRT (hormone replacement therapy) and certainly not something that I'm pretty sure is not done at all and at best has the most anecdotal examples that may be a thing in terms of GRS (gender reassignment surgery).

Gender affirming care is far more broad than the stuff you fixate on and distort the facts about them, as if you think everyone just grows out of it. My friend only came out as trans in his 30s, though he had confided in me and others that they honestly were uncertain on how they felt about their body relative to how they felt as a person as far back as their 20s

Not sure when the occult came up here, that seems like something you're insinuating into it

And the way to address what you see as a problem is not to regard people with contempt, that only reinforces the divide you supposedly want to bridge, yet are doing everything to continue the delusion that you're right without actually offering any argument, just condemnation, demonization, using them as a scapegoat for any societal ill you want to complain about without considering other factors

V.A.N.D.E.R.B.I.L.T

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

My friend only came out as trans in his 30s, though he had confided in me and others that they honestly were uncertain on how they felt about their body relative to how they felt as a person as far back as their 20s

I don't know this person so obviously can't say for sure, but if you're trans it's something that's with you from beginning, as it's an issue with the brain/mind. If it shows up only around puberty or way after, it's most likely something else causing it.

 

[JustGeorge]

V.A.N.D.E.R.B.I.L.T

Huh?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nothing irritates me more than people who are so self absorbed and oblivious to the outside world, they expect others to use special words to other people about them. I'm talking about pronoun fixation, by the way. The second thing which irritates me is how people have their various disorders listed, as if to showcase them. First, I don't know why they think people care if they are autistic, ADHD, or whatever else, including their status as indigenous or black.

Someone please explain all this to me? Am I missing something here because when I was growing up, this wasn't a thing. What was a thing was people introducing themselves as a gay man or a lesbian. I found that irritating as well, since I didn't see reason to know the sexual preferences of strangers and co-workers.

What a weird, small world you must live in to be so invested in telling other people what they should and shouldn't consider important.

 

[Reyn]

Huh?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I don't know this person so obviously can't say for sure, but if you're trans it's something that's with you from beginning, as it's an issue with the brain/mind. If it shows up only around puberty or way after, it's most likely something else causing it.

I've said this before but whether one agrees or not, there is lots of pushback against blue brain/pink brain, as well as neuralplacticity meaning that brain structure isn't immutable and set from birth nearly as much as possible. The very small and inconsistent differences that can be scanned between male and female sexed brains could develop in adolescence and even beyond based on current data. Those differences aren't even always indicative of trans identities when not matching natal sex. 'Right brain wrong body' is looking more and more oversimplified, and discounting how much nurture can inform nature.
Transsexualism: A Different Viewpoint to Brain Changes
ERIC - EJ971278 - The Myth of Pink and Blue Brains, Educational Leadership, 2010-Nov

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I've said this before but whether one agrees or not, there is lots of pushback against blue brain/pink brain, as well as neuralplacticity meaning that brain structure isn't immutable and set from birth nearly as much as possible. The very small and inconsistent differences that can be scanned between male and female sexed brains could develop in adolescence and even beyond based on current data. Those differences aren't even always indicative of trans identities when not matching natal sex. 'Right brain wrong body' is looking more and more oversimplified, and discounting how much nurture can inform nature.
Transsexualism: A Different Viewpoint to Brain Changes
ERIC - EJ971278 - The Myth of Pink and Blue Brains, Educational Leadership, 2010-Nov

Yes, I realize that there's a movement to erase the notion of innate biological sex differences (and therefore erase the existence of transsexuals), but it's quite frankly nonsense. It's plainly evident that there's neurological differences between males and females, and that the brains are organized and function somewhat differently.
How Men's Brains Are Wired Differently than Women's
https://scitechdaily.com/scientists...fine-brain-differences-between-men-and-women/

More research needs to be done into the brains and biology of trans people, but what research has been done has shown some differences.

I was made a boy in the womb, not socialized or "nurtured" into it. Something apparently went wrong hormonally and maybe otherwise that caused my brain to be organized differently and to cause my body to prefer testosterone to run on. Plus, my simple life experience as a transsexual man, as well as others, shows me that there is clearly something biological going on here. We're not just making it up, fulfilling some social role or whatever as if it's drag. It's an actual medical condition. That's what it was always considered until the gender ideology crowd came around in the past couple decades and threw everything out the window. Basically we're rehashing John Money's "blank slate" quackery for whatever reason, as if that's sane.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Yes, I realize that there's a movement to erase the notion of innate biological sex differences (and therefore erase the existence of transsexuals), but it's quite frankly nonsense. It's plainly evident that there's neurological differences between males and females, and that the brains are organized and function somewhat differently.
How Men's Brains Are Wired Differently than Women's
Scientists Discover How Sex Hormones Define Brain Differences Between Men and Women

More research needs to be done into the brains and biology of trans people, but what research has been done has shown some differences.

I was made a boy in the womb, not socialized or "nurtured" into it. Something apparently went wrong hormonally and maybe otherwise that caused my brain to be organized differently and to cause my body to prefer testosterone to run on. Plus, my simple life experience as a transsexual man, as well as others, shows me that there is clearly something biological going on here. We're not just making it up, fulfilling some social role or whatever as if it's drag. It's an actual medical condition. That's what it was always considered until the gender ideology crowd came around in the past couple decades and threw everything out the window. Basically we're rehashing John Money's "blank slate" quackery for whatever reason, as if that's sane.

It does not erase trans identities to say that gender and sex is more complicated than pink brains and blue brains, any more than it erases the identity of gay people to say there probably is no gay gene because sexuality is way more complicated and nuanced than that. Something other than 'I had this gender since birth' does not mean you chose it, nor has it ever been the case that 'something went wrong hormonally' doesn't happen from environmental rather than genetic or develmental factors.

What does erase trans identities is saying you're not actually trans if you didn't experience gender dysphoria at the outset of childhood, or that trans identities only exist within the limited binary of man and woman (which does NOT have clear consistent brain differences, and DOES have lots of exceptions to what have been considered standard brain differences.)

Massive study reveals few differences between men and women's brains
Neurosexism: the myth that men and women have different brains
Can You Tell Which Brains Are Male? Neither Can These Scientists
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-a-ldquo-female-rdquo-brain/

There really is more evidence of male and female brains being a long held myth than very well supported.

 

[muichimotsu]

V.A.N.D.E.R.B.I.L.T

Are you seriously throwing out that nonsense misinformation? None of that was done, period, the idea of a mature minor doctrine exists, but I seriously doubt there's nearly as much support overall and any instances of gender affirming care don't involve gender reassignment surgery

 

[muichimotsu]

I don't know this person so obviously can't say for sure, but if you're trans it's something that's with you from beginning, as it's an issue with the brain/mind. If it shows up only around puberty or way after, it's most likely something else causing it.

People's realization of such things is going to vary based on environment and likely even more so for people AFAB, because of the blatant and subtle misogyny in society at large. He thought it was thoroughly inconsistent that the boys could swim with their shirts off, but he couldn't because at the time, they were regarded as a girl. And growing up in the South, I can tell you that women are only treated a few steps above ISIS and how it treats women

 

[muichimotsu]

I've said this before but whether one agrees or not, there is lots of pushback against blue brain/pink brain, as well as neuralplacticity meaning that brain structure isn't immutable and set from birth nearly as much as possible. The very small and inconsistent differences that can be scanned between male and female sexed brains could develop in adolescence and even beyond based on current data. Those differences aren't even always indicative of trans identities when not matching natal sex. 'Right brain wrong body' is looking more and more oversimplified, and discounting how much nurture can inform nature.
Transsexualism: A Different Viewpoint to Brain Changes
ERIC - EJ971278 - The Myth of Pink and Blue Brains, Educational Leadership, 2010-Nov

It doesn't erase it either, it suggests that one's identity is going to be variable and not everyone is going to be trans, strictly speaking, because there could easily be epigenetic factors alongside the neurological and hormonal ones. My trans friend is the 2nd child, there are studies suggesting children later in the birth order have likelihood of LGBTQ traits,iirc

 

[Reyn]

Are you seriously throwing out that nonsense misinformation? None of that was done, period, the idea of a mature minor doctrine exists, but I seriously doubt there's nearly as much support overall and any instances of gender affirming care don't involve gender reassignment surgery

It's not misinformation. The videos presented were from the source and after they were called out, their website was scrubbed. There is currently an active investigation being done on this matter.

 

[Reyn]

It doesn't erase it either, it suggests that one's identity is going to be variable and not everyone is going to be trans, strictly speaking, because there could easily be epigenetic factors alongside the neurological and hormonal ones. My trans friend is the 2nd child, there are studies suggesting children later in the birth order have likelihood of LGBTQ traits,iirc

1 in 6 children identify as LGBT+ now. Think on that.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/02/24/gen-z-lgbt/