"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

[2ndpillar]

What a totally bizarre post, and as Steven Hawing said, Trump "is a demagogue who appeals to the lowest common denominator." -- Stephen Hawking Angers Trump Supporters with Baffling Array of Long Words

And with this batch of your posts, it's a reminder why I had you on my ignore list for so long.

Is this the pedophile island Steven Hawkings? You keep throwing stones instead of addressing the issues. Is your well so shallow that that you have no acceptable response to the issues posed? And yes, Trump appeals to the common people versus the elites, who think they are wise and intelligent/educated, self-professed traits, for which Yeshua said they will not understand (Matthew 11:25). Instead of teaching bible studies, you might want to read the bible from an open-minded frame of mind, and a little humility.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants.

 

[3rdAngel]

When you start your post with a personal attack, don't expect me to read the rest.

I see so when you post content that is proven not biblical from the scriptures and you are corrected with scripture that is in disagreement with you, to you it is a personal attack and not Gods blessing? Why not be blessed of God and receive it as correction?

 

[Oeste]

Note Exodus 20:8-11 says "REMEMBER"

8Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God, on which you must not do any work—neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant or livestock, nor the foreigner within your gates. 11For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that is in them, but on the seventh day He rested. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.

Quite right!

They were to "REMEMBER" the Sabbath God gave them a few weeks earlier, at Exodus 16:23-30.

However, they did not and could not "REMEMBER" a 7th Day Sabbath prior to this because they didn't have one.

The reason the Jews received a 7th Day Sabbath was because they were brought out of Israel.

note EXODUS 31 says its a PERMANENT COVENANT

Right again!

But only for those who lived prior to Christ's ministry. After the Last Supper there was a New Covenant in town, and available not to just "first to the Jews", but to anyone who believes.

By grace Christians have a choice: we can choose to place our full faith in the finished works of Christ, and keep his commandments, or, if we choose, put a little faith in Christ and place the rest in keeping Old Testament law. It requires strong faith to place your complete faith in Christ, as by our very nature, we will always want to add our own works to his finished works.

Either way, this is something Christ understands, as even those of weaker faith will be made to stand:

Romans 14:1-12 ESV​

​

Bible.com

https://www.bible.com › bible › ROM.14.1-12.ESV​

​

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions ... And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person ..​

So Christians can celebrate a 7th day Sabbath, or they can continue to rest in Christ.

An Analogy

It's like living as a slave under the law of the old South. When he crosses the Mason-Dixon line, he is no longer under the laws of slavery but can enjoy the freedoms living in the North would bring. That does not mean the slave has "abolished" any of the slave laws. They are still in effect in the Old South. Neither does it mean he is now "lawless" as he is now under the laws of the North.

It does means that the laws of the South have became null and void as far as this former slave is concerned.

 

[Oeste]

Hmm all I see here are a bunch of lies taken out of context to promote your teachings of lawlessness that does not agree with the bible here as a distraction to the OP. Now lets talk bible. Where is the scripture that says Gods Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus?

1. Your assertion, that "...the 10 commandments has now been abolished..." is a premise without basis.

No one has "abolished" the Sabbath commandment for you. As the Christians posting on this board have told you, time and time again, you are FREE to celebrate, at least in this country, ANY SABBATH you want. THAT INCLUDES A 7th DAY SABBATH!

2. Your assertion, "...we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus" is ALSO a premise without basis.

As we have told you, time and time again, under Christ you are FREE to keep Sunday as a day of rest just as you are FREE to keep Saturday as a day of rest.

It's all up to you. THERE IS NO COMMAND, at least here in the USA, to keep SUNDAYS HOLY!

You can keep MONDAY as a holy day of rest if you wish. Keeping MONDAY does not "abolish" SATURDAY, and certainly does not "abolish" SUNDAY.

And this may shock you, but yes, you can consider EVERY DAY HOLY and give it to the Lord!

If you are referring to "secular" authorities, your results may vary. Not every country recognizes our freedom in Christ. But then that becomes more of a political than biblical question.

As it is, you appear to be spouting some rather dubious "talking points", specifically designed to mobilize and twist the undergarments of the Adventist faithful into tight knots. As shown by 165 pages on this thread, these arguments spew forth from Adventists, and not from any mainstream Christian church. I don't see any of my fellow Christians claiming the Adventist Sabbath was or is "abolished". The only people asserting this premise are you and some of your fellow Adventists.

TESTING THE PREMISE

Here's a simple test:

Can you meet on Saturday? Worship on Saturday? Rest on Saturday?​

If the answer to these questions is "YES" then your 7th Day Sabbath has NOT been "ABOLISHED".

Were you told to meet only on Sunday? To worship only on Sunday? To rest only on Sunday?​

If the answer to these questions is "NO", then you have received no "COMMAND" to keep Sunday in honor of the resurrection.

Does your church, temple, synagogue, mosque, cathedral, abbey, nave or hall have a "CLOSED ON SATURDAYS" sign on it?​

Then it may have been "ABOLISHED" or it may simply be due to other factors, such as renovation. You should check with church staff.

 

[2ndpillar]

Your assertion, "...we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus" is ALSO a premise without basis.

As we have told you, time and time again, under Christ you are FREE to keep Sunday as a day of rest just as you are FREE to keep Saturday as a day of rest.

It's all up to you. THERE IS NO COMMAND, at least here in the USA, to keep SUNDAYS HOLY!

You can keep MONDAY as a holy day of rest if you wish. Keeping MONDAY does not "abolish" SATURDAY, and certainly does not "abolish" SUNDAY.

And this may shock you, but yes, you can consider EVERY DAY HOLY and give it to the Lord!

The Roman Catholic catechism teaches to keep the LORD's day holy, whereas their Lord's day is Sunday, the day of the sun, the day of the worship of Sol Invictus, the god of the Roman emperor Constantine, "the beast with two horns like a lamb" (Rev 13:11), who was to deceive "those who dwell on the earth" (Rev 13:14), who in 321 A.D. decreed that one could not buy or sell on Sunday, as he closed all shops and government offices on that day. That has come down through the ages as the U.S. blue laws, which carried through most of the 20th century, whereas you could not buy or sell liquor on Sunday. According to the Catholic Catechism, the LORD's day replaces the Sabbath. Catechism of the Catholic Church After the time of Luther and his other protestant leaders, they also went along with this charade, but some go along because the false prophet Paul apparently collected money for Jerusalem widows and broke bread on the first day of the week. I am sure he also broke bread 7 days a week, but apparently limited his collection of money to Sunday. I guess going around to houses and collecting money on the Sabbath would not go down well with the Jews. The Commandment reads that one is not to work on the 7th day. Those on Welfare should surely be able to keep your view of the commandment.

 

[Oeste]

The OP is asking where is the scripture that says Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10? - There is none. This is a man-made teaching and lie started by the Roman Catholic Church..

No, no, NO!

As @metis pointed out to you previously, the Roman Catholic Church was not in existence in the 1st or 2nd Century!

The Roman Catholic Church, like many other churches, claims apostolic succession, so OF COURSE some will claim it was “they” who changed (not “abolished”) the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Many other churches claim “apostolic succession” as well.

Ask a Greek Orthodox who “changed” it, for heaven’s sake! Will they claim it was the Roman Catholic Church? OF COURSE NOT. They will tell you, quite truthfully, that the Roman Catholic Church wasn’t in existence at the time, so it was they, the Greek Orthodox, that abolished decided to worship on the Resurrection rather than the Jewish Sabbath. After talking with the Greek Orthodox, feel free to talk with our Eastern Orthodox friends as well.

Please realize that when you buy into their argument that “they” changed it, you also buy into their argument they represent the “true” and historic apostolic church. They can proudly tell their members “If you don’t believe we represent the original, historic church, you can simply ask our Adventist friends!”

As for me, I’m not that anxious to purchase tickets to their “New, Revised History of the Church”, but I think our readers know that as an Adventist, you may feel or think differently. My only question her is this:

What makes you prefer the Roman Catholic claim to apostolic succession over that of other churches?​

You would not believe them for the same reasons you would not believe the Roman Catholic Church. They simply weren't around at the time.
In fact, the earliest known use of the term "Roman Catholic" did not come until 1208, during a correspondence with the Armenian Church.

Again, Sunday, first day worship is supported by scripture:

We take the evidence of this from Scripture:

• On the first day of the week when we gathered to break bread, Paul spoke to them because he was going to leave on the next day, and he kept on speaking until midnight (Acts 20:7).
• On the first day of the week each of you should set aside and save whatever one can afford, so that collections will not be going on when I come (1 Cor. 16:2).
• Let no one (except the Adventists), then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or Sabbath (Col. 2:16).

First century Christians gathered in memory of their risen Lord on the 1st Day, not because they had "abolished" the Jewish Sabbath, but because that was the day Christ rose. This is not only supported in scripture, but by our earliest historians as well.

 

[2ndpillar]

Were you told to meet only on Sunday? To worship only on Sunday? To rest only on Sunday?

Well, in the 1950s, if you missed services on Easter Sunday, then the Catechism I was taught in a Catholic school, was that you went to hell, in spite of the fact that when Mary Magdelene went to the tomb, on the first day of the week, in which days starts at sunset of the previous day, while still dark, which is before sunrise, the tomb was empty. (John 20;1) The day is measured from starting with the evening (Genesis 1:5) through the day until evening. The body was gone before sunrise the next day, while it was still dark. The Preparation Day, passover, was the day of the crucifixion, which occurred prior to the high holy sabbath of the feast of Booths, which occurs a different day of the week according to the calendar, on the 15th of Nissan. Passover is on the 14th of Nissan. There was no 3 days and 3 nights between the 14th and the 15th. The 14th of Nissan, occurred on a Wednesday afternoon, and after 3 days and 3 night later Mary visited the tomb while "it was still dark, which is 3 days and 3 nights plus after the burial, which put the resurrection 3 day and 3 nights after the late afternoon burial, in the late afternoon of the Sabbath, before Mary arrived. Your church had 2000 years to get their story straight, and it is still lacking.

John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

 

[2ndpillar]

No, no, NO!

As @metis pointed out to you previously, the Roman Catholic Church was not in existence in the 1st or 2nd Century!

The Roman Catholic Church, like many other churches, claims apostolic succession, so OF COURSE some will claim it was “they” who changed (not “abolished”) the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Many other churches claim “apostolic succession” as well.

Ask a Greek Orthodox who “changed” it, for heaven’s sake! Will they claim it was the Roman Catholic Church? OF COURSE NOT. They will tell you, quite truthfully, that the Roman Catholic Church wasn’t in existence at the time, so it was they, the Greek Orthodox, that abolished decided to worship on the Resurrection rather than the Jewish Sabbath. After talking with the Greek Orthodox, feel free to talk with our Eastern Orthodox friends as well.

Please realize that when you buy into their argument that “they” changed it, you also buy into their argument they represent the “true” and historic apostolic church. They can proudly tell their members “If you don’t believe we represent the original, historic church, you can simply ask our Adventist friends!”

As for me, I’m not that anxious to purchase tickets to their “New, Revised History of the Church”, but I think our readers know that as an Adventist, you may feel or think differently. My only question her is this:

What makes you prefer the Roman Catholic claim to apostolic succession over that of other churches?​

You would not believe them for the same reasons you would not believe the Roman Catholic Church. They simply weren't around at the time.
In fact, the earliest known use of the term "Roman Catholic" did not come until 1208, during a correspondence with the Armenian Church.

Again, Sunday, first day worship is supported by scripture:

We take the evidence of this from Scripture:

• On the first day of the week when we gathered to break bread, Paul spoke to them because he was going to leave on the next day, and he kept on speaking until midnight (Acts 20:7).
• On the first day of the week each of you should set aside and save whatever one can afford, so that collections will not be going on when I come (1 Cor. 16:2).
• Let no one (except the Adventists), then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or Sabbath (Col. 2:16).

First century Christians gathered in memory of their risen Lord on the 1st Day, not because they had "abolished" the Jewish Sabbath, but because that was the day Christ rose. This is not only supported in scripture, but by our earliest historians as well.

At the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D., convened by the Roman emperor Constantine (Pontifex Maximus), the Eastern church was overly represented, and Constantine's order of 321 A.D. was that the day of the sun, Sunday, the day of his god Sol Invictus, would be the day of rest. Constantine's capital was in the East, at Constantinople. As for the proclamation of Paul, the false prophet, whose message is of the devil/"enemy", well, that message leads to the "furnace of fire", at the "end of the age" (Mt 13:24-50).

 

[3rdAngel]

1. Your assertion, that "...the 10 commandments has now been abolished..." is a premise without basis, No one has "abolished" the Sabbath commandment for you. As the Christians posting on this board have told you, time and time again, you are FREE to celebrate, at least in this country, ANY SABBATH you want. THAT INCLUDES A 7th DAY SABBATH!

Look if you want a discussion lets have an honest one ok? 99% of the 40,000 different Christian Religions in the world today do not keep Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath of Gods 10 commandments which is one of Gods 10 commandments that give is the knowledge of good and right doing when obeyed and sin and evil when disobeyed according to the scriptures (see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172. Instead most of these Christian religions of the world today keep Sunday in lieu of Gods 7th day Sabbath commandment (Exodus 20:8-11). Unlike Gods direct Sabbath commandment from God Himself, Sunday worship in honor of the resurrection of Jesus is a man-made teaching and tradition that is unsupported anywhere in the bible. So please do not be untruthful now in your posts and say that this is a premise without basis. If it was a premise without basis the Sunday keeping Church's of the world today would be keeping Gods Sabbath commandment according to the scriptures just like Jesus did and all the Apostles did and all the early disciples did until the day they died. The fact is there is not a single scripture in all the bible from Genesis to Revelation that teaches Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warning of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Jesus says those who do these things are not worshiping God.

2. Your assertion, "...we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus" is ALSO a premise without basis.

Again please be truthful with your responses. If your claim here was true, most of the Christian religions of the wold today would still be keeping Gods 7th day Sabbath commandment which is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (Exodus 20:8-11; 1 John 3:4). There is not a single scripture in the entire bible that teaches anywhere that Gods 4th commandment has been abolished and we are to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. Again, Sunday worship in honor of the resurrection of Jesus is a man-made teaching and tradition that is unsupported anywhere in the bible. So again your being untruthful in your posts to say these are premises without basis. If it was a premise without basis the Sunday keeping Church's of the world today would be keeping Gods Sabbath commandment according to the scriptures just like Jesus did and all the Apostles did and all the early disciples did until the day they died. The fact is there is not a single scripture in all the bible from Genesis to Revelation that teaches Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warning of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Jesus says those who do these things are not worshiping God.

As we have told you, time and time again, under Christ you are FREE to keep Sunday as a day of rest just as you are FREE to keep Saturday as a day of rest. It's all up to you. THERE IS NO COMMAND, at least here in the USA, to keep SUNDAYS HOLY! You can keep MONDAY as a holy day of rest if you wish. Keeping MONDAY does not "abolish" SATURDAY, and certainly does not "abolish" SUNDAY. And this may shock you, but yes, you can consider EVERY DAY HOLY and give it to the Lord!

According to the scriptures it does not say anywhere in the bible that we are free to keep any day as a holy day or to choose to keep Sunday or Sabbath day as a holy day of rest. According to the scriptures the bibles definition of the Sabbath day is every seventh day of the week (see Exodus 20:8-11 specifically Exodus 20:10 where it says "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no word..."Again, there is not a single scripture in the entire bible that teaches anywhere that Gods 4th commandment has been abolished and we are to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. The fact is there is not a single scripture in all the bible from Genesis to Revelation that teaches Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warning of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Jesus says those who do these things are not worshiping God. So again you are not telling the truth here but promoting lies of lawlessness that are unsupported in the bible. The bible does not teach anywhere that we are now free to go out and sin against God. If we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin and death and if we do not repent and confess our sins to God we will die in them (Hebrews 10:26-31).

If you are referring to "secular" authorities, your results may vary. Not every country recognizes our freedom in Christ. But then that becomes more of a political than biblical question.

Why would I be referring to secular authorities? I am referring to the scriptures and Gods 10 commandments that are all repeated in the old and new covenant scriptures as Gods standard of good and right doing when obeyed and sin and evil when disobeyed (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172). According to the scriptures if we lie, steal or take Gods name in vain we sin against God and the penalty of known unrepentant sin is death according to the bible (see Acts 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31; Roman 6:23 and Ezekiel 18:4). Gods Sabbath commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) is one of Gods 10 commandments spoken by God alone and written with the finger of God on two tables of stone that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. If we continue to break it just like any other one of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin and death and unless we repent we will die in our sins (James 2:10-11; Romans 3:19-20).

As it is, you appear to be spouting some rather dubious "talking points", specifically designed to mobilize and twist the undergarments of the Adventist faithful into tight knots. As shown by 165 pages on this thread, these arguments spew forth from Adventists, and not from any mainstream Christian church. I don't see any of my fellow Christians claiming the Adventist Sabbath was or is "abolished". The only people asserting this premise are you and some of your fellow Adventists.

Not at all. As shown in this post and elsewhere in this thread I have only been posting scripture in this thread that is in disagreement with you. These are Gods Words not mine that are in disagreement with your words that are not Gods. The only dubious posts here are your posts. Your posts promote teachings of lawlessness and sin which is against the teachings of the bible and will lead all who follow them away from God and His Words into sin and unbelief. Those who follow the path sin and death will die in their sins according to the scriptures. (see Matthew 7:13-23; Hebrews 10:26-31). Does this not worry you? It should as according to the scriptures your very salvation is at stake.

TESTING THE PREMISE

Here's a simple test:

Can you meet on Saturday? Worship on Saturday? Rest on Saturday?

If the answer to these questions is "YES" then your 7th Day Sabbath has NOT been "ABOLISHED".

Were you told to meet only on Sunday? To worship only on Sunday? To rest only on Sunday?

If the answer to these questions is "NO", then you have received no "COMMAND" to keep Sunday in honor of the resurrection.

Does your church, temple, synagogue, mosque, cathedral, abbey, nave or hall have a "CLOSED ON SATURDAYS" sign on it?

Then it may have been "ABOLISHED" or it may simply be due to other factors, such as renovation. You should check with church staff.

TEST YOUR CLAIMS WITH THE TRUTH OF SCRIPTURE

1. Firstly, where did I ever post to you that we cannot worship God every day of the week? We should worship God every day of the week. If I never made those claims or arguments and I am in agreement that we should worship God every day of the week why you are pretending I am making claims we should not worship God every day of the week? If I have never made these claims that we should not worship God every day of the week then what is your argument? You have none because I have never said we should not worship God every day of the week right? Therefore you are making arguments no one is arguing about because we are in agreement.

Now lets look at the scriptures and the facts you have omitted by closing your eyes to your false teachings of lawlessness. According to the scriptures after the death and resurrection of Jesus Gods disciples and Apostles met every day of the week to worship God (see Acts 2:46-47). This did not make every day of the week a holy day of rest now did it? According to the scriptures, Gods early Church met together every day of the week to worship God (see Acts 2:46-47) what you failed to say though is that all the Apostles and Disciples after the death and resurrection of Jesus continued to keep Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment according to the scriptures (see Matthew 28:1; Acts of the Apostles 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 14:12; 22:14)

2. Secondly your might want to consider that according to Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow, man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word into breaking the commandments of God then we are not worshiping God. So even if you want to make an argument no one is arguing about that we should worship God every day and any day and I agree with you that we should according to Jesus if we are following man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word into breaking the commandments of God it does not matter what day we seek to worship God on because according to Jesus if we are breaking the commandments of God (e.g the seventh day Sabbath) according to Jesus whatever we do we are not worshiping God. We are still in our sins breaking Gods commandments which is the very definition of what sin is.

3. You missed the point of Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment. It is a day that God made for all mankind (see Mark 2:27) and it is the seventh day of the week (Exodus 20:8-11; specifically Exodus 20:10) that God "blessed" and made as a "holy day" of rest as a memorial of creation. What causes us to sin and break this commandments is to work on this day. Receive Gods Word and be blessed. Ignoring Gods Word does not make it disappear it will become our judge come judgement day according to the scriptures (see John 12:47-48)

Take Care.

 

[Oeste]

The Roman Catholic catechism teaches to keep the LORD's day holy, whereas their Lord's day is Sunday, the day of the sun, the day of the worship of Sol Invictus, the god of the Roman emperor Constantine,

Nah.

Christians met on the first day of the week long before Constantine. This can be confirmed by a simple study of scripture and church history, @2ndpillar.

who in 321 A.D. decreed that one could not buy or sell on Sunday, as he closed all shops and government offices on that day.

As Emperor and secular ruler, he would be perfectly within his right to declare anything he wanted. The fact is, Christians follow Christ, not Constantine. You may have mixed the two.

Also, this does nothing to show that Constantine "abolished" Saturday worship. Prohibiting shops and government offices from opening on Sunday did not prevent Jews from observing the Sabbath on Saturday.

According to the Catholic Catechism, the LORD's day replaces the Sabbath.

The Lord's Day is resurrection day. The resurrection showed all of Jesus' words were true, and that he would give us rest, and not a Sabbath the Jews were already celebrating.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

You, who seems to be Protestant, base your church history on Roman Catholic catechisms? A church that did not come into existence until some time AFTER the East-West schism of 1024 AD??

You're kidding us, right???

After the time of Luther and his other protestant leaders, they also went along with this charade, but some go along because the false prophet Paul apparently collected money for Jerusalem widows and broke bread on the first day of the week.

Aaaah! You are not only Anti-1st Day Worshipers, but also Anti-Pauline, which explains your reasoning. You toss out any apostle that disagrees with established, 2ndPillar doctrine. A lot of thing can be explained by tossing out huge swaths from our bible. What else did you write? Oh yes, here it is:

You had to have 1500 Jews killed in one day to wake any of them up.

The adverse effects from the covid vaccines is far from over, and a great number of the physicians involved were Jewish. They will have another chance with respect to the new X variety.

So you are anti-1st day worshipers, anti-Pauline, and antisemitic.

For example, Paul tells us in Galatians 328-29:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.​

And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise​

But what does 3rdAngel tell us?:

In this generation, good is called evil, and evil is called good (Isaiah 5:20). Incompetence, corruption, and mental disintegration are the leadership qualities (Biden) of the Progressives, who are the "wicked"/"those who commit lawlessness" at this "end of the age". (Mt 13:30-42) They also have the cooperation of the "many" being led to "destruction" by the "false prophets" (Mt 7:12-24) You seem to delight in begging the question, and relying on throwing unwarranted stones at the messenger, a common Progressive Left trait.

So Paul simply forgot to tell us that while we are not separated by Jew or Greek, we are very much separated by political party, and no doubt, anyone to the political left of 2ndpillar is on their way to total destruction, just as our bible says.

Since you defame Paul, perhaps you can show us exactly where in scripture you find these things again? You claim there are those who are "...relying and throwing unwarranted stones at the messenger",..."

Who exactly is this "messenger" you allude to?

Is the messenger YOU, and if so, are you receiving direct revelation from God, or perhaps indirectly, through an angel?​

​

From an American or foreign conservative party, and if so, which one?​

​

From a fireplace or candle, as did Nostradamus?​

​

Q perhaps, or a cable news channel?​

​

From hither to unknown scripture, suppressed by Constantine, lying under a vault in the Vatican?​

Who exactly serves as "messenger" when you tell us about Paul, Jews and the liberal progressive left??

My questions are rhetorical, and any answer from you is totally optional. So, while I suspect no one but you will believe any answer you give, I do believe our dear readers will realize that you speak true from your own personal biases and belief, and not as a representative of an organized, Christian religion.

However, if it is from a church, it's hard to recognize your comments as coming from anything more than a congregation that is spiritually ill and/or in need of repentance and prayer. As such, this is not so much an admonishment but a request for your spirit to heal, which is something we all need, including yours truly, from time to time.

 

[3rdAngel]

No, no, NO!

As @metis pointed out to you previously, the Roman Catholic Church was not in existence in the 1st or 2nd Century!

The Roman Catholic Church, like many other churches, claims apostolic succession, so OF COURSE some will claim it was “they” who changed (not “abolished”) the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Many other churches claim “apostolic succession” as well.

Ask a Greek Orthodox who “changed” it, for heaven’s sake! Will they claim it was the Roman Catholic Church? OF COURSE NOT. They will tell you, quite truthfully, that the Roman Catholic Church wasn’t in existence at the time, so it was they, the Greek Orthodox, that abolished decided to worship on the Resurrection rather than the Jewish Sabbath. After talking with the Greek Orthodox, feel free to talk with our Eastern Orthodox friends as well.

Please realize that when you buy into their argument that “they” changed it, you also buy into their argument they represent the “true” and historic apostolic church. They can proudly tell their members “If you don’t believe we represent the original, historic church, you can simply ask our Adventist friends!”

As for me, I’m not that anxious to purchase tickets to their “New, Revised History of the Church”, but I think our readers know that as an Adventist, you may feel or think differently. My only question her is this:

What makes you prefer the Roman Catholic claim to apostolic succession over that of other churches?​

You would not believe them for the same reasons you would not believe the Roman Catholic Church. They simply weren't around at the time.
In fact, the earliest known use of the term "Roman Catholic" did not come until 1208, during a correspondence with the Armenian Church.

Please get your facts right before posting here. It is generally agreed that the book of Romans was written around 57AD. So this alone is evidence that the Roman Catholic Church was in existence prior to this timing. According to the scriptures, after the death of Jesus, the early Church which was mostly Jews met together every day of the week breaking bread together (see Acts 2:46-47) and as it was Jesus custom to keep the Sabbath all the disciples and Apostles continued keeping the Sabbath of Gods 4th commandment as well as all of Gods other commandments which is Gods standard of Christian living. It was the early Roman Catholic Church centuries later through civil union of state and Emperor Constantine that began the tradition of Sunday worship. That said it can be shown in the historical records that all through time from Gods people in the old testament, Jesus and the disciples and Apostles in the new testament and Christs disciples all through time that God has always had a people that have continued to obey Him and keep His commandments and will do so even before the 2nd coming. The statement you made that the Sabbath only applies to the Jews is a lie and unsupported in the bible. Unlike the law of Moses written in the book of the covenant by Moses (Exodus 24:7), every one of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard of Christian living and breaking anyone of them according to James is sin (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11).

Look lets not make false statements like you are doing here. Its just a distraction. Lets talk detail. There was no false accounts in my last post to you. The Roman Universal (Catholic) Church is the Roman Catholic Church. It was the Church that came out of Rome. Being Jewish has nothing to do with keeping anyone of Gods 10 commandments. The Sabbath according to Jesus was made for all mankind (see Mark 2:27). There was no Jews, no Israel, no Moses, no law and no sin when God made the Sabbath for all mankind and blessed the seventh day as a holy day of rest in Genesis 2:1-3. There was only Adam and Eve the parents of all mankind who were made on the sixth day of the creation week (see Genesis 1:26-31). You do err not knowing the scriptures. Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40 when quoting the two great commandments of love to God and man is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. These were simply summing up how to obey the law and the prophets (see Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12). No one is loving God or neighbor by breaking Gods commandments. The OP is asking where is the scripture that says Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10? - There is none. This is a man-made teaching and lie started by the Roman Catholic Church..

Again, Sunday, first day worship is supported by scripture: We take the evidence of this from Scripture: On the first day of the week when we gathered to break bread, Paul spoke to them because he was going to leave on the next day, and he kept on speaking until midnight (Acts 20:7).

According to the scriptures after the death and resurrection of Jesus Gods disciples and Apostles met every day of the week to worship God (see Acts 2:46-47). This did not make every day of the week a holy day of rest now did it? According to the scriptures, Gods early Church met together every day of the week to worship God including Sunday (see Acts 2:46-47) what you failed to say though is that all the Apostles and Disciples after the death and resurrection of Jesus continued to keep Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment according to the scriptures (see Matthew 28:1; Acts of the Apostles 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 14:12; 22:14) and that there is not a single scripture in all the bible that teaches that Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has now been abolished and we can now choose any day of the week as a holy day of rest. Your doctrine of lawlessness is not supported in the scriptures. Even in the very scripture you post in Acts 20:7 you even fail to take note that the reason that the disciples were meeting on Sunday was because they were having a meal together because the Apostle Paul was departing from them the very next morning.

• On the first day of the week each of you should set aside and save whatever one can afford, so that collections will not be going on when I come (1 Cor. 16:2).

Once again this is not a commandment to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest but to start organizing church offerings before Paul as going to arrive so he can take them to Jerusalem

• Let no one (except the Adventists), then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or Sabbath (Col. 2:16).

First century Christians gathered in memory of their risen Lord on the 1st Day, not because they had "abolished" the Jewish Sabbath, but because that was the day Christ rose. This is not only supported in scripture, but by our earliest historians as well.

Your not telling the truth again. Firstly there is no such thing as a Jewish Sabbath according to Jesus the Sabbath was man for all mankind (Mark 2:27) There was no Jew, no Israel, no Moses, no law, no sin when God made the Sabbath for all mankind (see Genesis 2:1-3). There was only Adam and Eve who were created on the 6th day of the creation week in Genesis 1:26-31 who are the parents of all mankind. Once again you want to check your facts again. According to the scriptures Jesus and all the Apostles and disciples of the early Church continued keeping the Sabbath until they day they died as have Gods people all through time to this very present day. (see Matthew 28:1; Acts of the Apostles 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 14:12; 22:14). There is not a single scripture in all the bible that teaches Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" this is also a man-made teaching and tradition of the early Church that is unsupported by the scriptures just as a command to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. If you would like me to help you with Colossians 2:16 I am happy to help you here. Colossians 2:16 should not be pulled out of its context to support your teachings of lawlessness. Colossians 2:16 is talking about the sabbaths (plural not singular) in the new moons, and annual feast days and the meat and drink offerings connected to them and not letting others judge you in this regard. Did you know there are many different types of sabbaths in the old covenant connected to the annual feast days that are not Gods Sabbath commandment in the 10 Commandments? I guess not. If you would like to discuss this further let me know. All you have proven here is that you do not know God or His word.

 

[3rdAngel]

Nah.

Christians met on the first day of the week long before Constantine. This can be confirmed by a simple study of scripture and church history, @2ndpillar.



As Emperor and secular ruler, he would be perfectly within his right to declare anything he wanted. The fact is, Christians follow Christ, not Constantine. You may have mixed the two.

Also, this does nothing to show that Constantine "abolished" Saturday worship. Prohibiting shops and government offices from opening on Sunday did not prevent Jews from observing the Sabbath on Saturday.



The Lord's Day is resurrection day. The resurrection showed all of Jesus' words were true, and that he would give us rest, and not a Sabbath the Jews were already celebrating.



You, who seems to be Protestant, base your church history on Roman Catholic catechisms? A church that did not come into existence until some time AFTER the East-West schism of 1024 AD??

You're kidding us, right???


Aaaah! You are not only Anti-1st Day Worshipers, but also Anti-Pauline, which explains your reasoning. You toss out any apostle that disagrees with established, 2ndPillar doctrine. A lot of thing can be explained by tossing out huge swaths from our bible. What else did you write? Oh yes, here it is:





So you are anti-1st day worshipers, anti-Pauline, and antisemitic.

For example, Paul tells us in Galatians 328-29:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.​

And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise​

But what does 3rdAngel tell us?:



So Paul simply forgot to tell us that while we are not separated by Jew or Greek, we are very much separated by political party, and no doubt, anyone to the political left of 2ndpillar is on their way to total destruction, just as our bible says.

Since you defame Paul, perhaps you can show us exactly where in scripture you find these things again? You claim there are those who are "...relying and throwing unwarranted stones at the messenger",..."

Who exactly is this "messenger" you allude to?

Is the messenger YOU, and if so, are you receiving direct revelation from God, or perhaps indirectly, through an angel?​

​

From an American or foreign conservative party, and if so, which one?​

​

From a fireplace or candle, as did Nostradamus?​

​

Q perhaps, or a cable news channel?​

​

From hither to unknown scripture, suppressed by Constantine, lying under a vault in the Vatican?​

Who exactly serves as "messenger" when you tell us about Paul, Jews and the liberal progressive left??

My questions are rhetorical, and any answer from you is totally optional. So, while I suspect no one but you will believe any answer you give, I do believe our dear readers will realize that you speak true from your own personal biases and belief, and not as a representative of an organized, Christian religion.

However, if it is from a church, it's hard to recognize your comments as coming from anything more than a congregation that is spiritually ill and/or in need of repentance and prayer. As such, this is not so much an admonishment but a request for your spirit to heal, which is something we all need, including yours truly, from time to time.

I have to admit you are a funny one. Perhaps do some more research and get your facts right before posting. It will help for a better discussion.

 

[Oeste]

John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Well, there you have it, 2000 year in the making.

Look at what it DOES say:

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark...​

Now look at what it DOESN'T say:

The seventh day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene late, when it was yet dark...​

And just to confirm:

Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils (Mark 16:9)

 

[3rdAngel]

Well, there you have it, 2000 year in the making.

Look at what it DOES say:

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark...

Now look at what it DOESN'T say:

The seventh day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene late, when it was yet dark...


And just to confirm:

Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils (Mark 16:9)

Hey look what Matthew 28:1 is says... " [1], In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher."

Look at what the scriptures says...

1. The disciples after the death and resurrection of Jesus kept the Sabbath commandment
2. The disciples did not go to attend to the body of Jesus until after the Sabbath was finished.

Look at what the scripture does not say...

3. The scripture in Matthew 28:1 says no where that we are now to make Sunday a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus.

I guess this is kind of not going in the direction that you thought it was going is it? I must admit even if I do not believe you and have proven why from the scriptures, I am enjoying our discussions together. I am sure it will be helpful to others that might be watching too.

Take Care.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Quite right!

They were to "REMEMBER" the Sabbath God gave them a few weeks earlier, at Exodus 16:23-30.

However, they did not and could not "REMEMBER" a 7th Day Sabbath prior to this because they didn't have one.

The reason the Jews received a 7th Day Sabbath was because they were brought out of Israel

sorry but you have completely forgotten that the Sabbath commandment is an extension of Genesis Ch 2...funny how this gets fogotten...Note the concordance cross references for Genesis Ch 2:1 are Exodus 16 and Hebrews 4!
'
The following tie the Sabbath commandment to salvation (enterring into Christs rest) and also, we know we are still bound to keep all of the commandments because of what Revelation 14:12 defines as saints:

here are the patience of the saints who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus

We know that Revel;ation 14:12 is specifically talking about the 10 commandments, so God very clearly demands we continue to worship Him according to the institution initiated at the end of Creation week!

In order to be considered saint, in order to be saved, we need both the commandments and the gospel.

​

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ The Seventh Day (Exodus 16:22–30; Hebrews 4:1–11) 1Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. 2And by the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on that day He rested from all His work.a 3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on that day He rested from all the work of creation that He had accomplished. Exodus 16 22On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much food—two omers per persone —and all the leaders of the congregation came and reported this to Moses. 23He told them, “This is what the LORD has said: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of complete rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake, and boil what you want to boil. Then set aside whatever remains and keep it until morning.’ ” 24So they set it aside until morning as Moses had commanded, and it did not smell or contain any maggots. 25“Eat it today,” Moses said, “because today is a Sabbath to the LORD. Today you will not find anything in the field. 26For six days you may gather, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, it will not be there.” 27Yet on the seventh day some of the people went out to gather, but they did not find anything. Hebrews 4 1Therefore, while the promise of entering His rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be deemed to have fallen short of it. 2For we also received the good news just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, since they did not share the faith of those who comprehended it.a 3Now we who have believed enter that rest. As for the others, it is just as God has said: “So I swore on oath in My anger, They shall never enter My rest.’ ”b And yet His works have been finished since the foundation of the world. 4For somewhere He has spoken about the seventh day in this manner: “And on the seventh day God rested from all His works.”c 5And again, as He says in the passage above: “They shall never enter My rest.”

 

[2ndpillar]

Well, there you have it, 2000 year in the making.

Look at what it DOES say:

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark...​

Now look at what it DOESN'T say:

The seventh day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene late, when it was yet dark...​

And just to confirm:

Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils (Mark 16:9)

It takes two witnesses to confirm any matter (Matthew 18:16) Your two accounts do not match. Per John 20:1, Mary came early, when it was dark, and at that time there was no body. Using 3 days and 3 nights past the time of the burial, he had to be out of the ground at the same time he was put in, which was the late afternoon of Preparation Day. John says they came early on the first day of week while it was still dark, whereas early on the first day of the week is right after sundown, when it is dark. Mark says early on the first day of the week, which comes right after sundown, but then he says when the sun has risen, which is around 12 hours later. John is a first-person observer, but who is Mark? John 20 mentions Peter and John, but no Mark. Yeshua rose before any of them got there. You only have two accounts, and they don't jive, therefore you have to fall back on the law in which all the disciples kept with regard to the Preparation day, and the high holy sabbath feast of Unleavened Bread, and the sign of Jonah, which is 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the beast/earth, which discounts a Friday evening burial and a supposedly Sunday resurrection, even using your Mark version. As hard as you may try, you will not get 3 nights into that equation. On the other hand, if one is keeping the law, then it is a Wednesday (14th of Nissan) late afternoon burial, and a Saturday late afternoon resurrection. With respect to the actual text, the King James bible per Matthew 28:1 reads "in the end of the Sabbath, and my NASB reads "late on the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, which would be the time nearing sunset of the Sabbath. Which is to say, apparently someone with 2000 years to work with, has added to the "words of this book" (Revelation 22:19). Whatever, you have not confirmed any matter with respect to your verses.

Matthew 18:16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that ON THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY MATTER MAY BE CONFIRMED.

King James Bible Matthew 28:1
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

John 20:1 Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already removed from the tomb.

Mark 16:1When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him. 2Very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen

 

[Oeste]

It was the early Roman Catholic Church centuries later through civil union of state and Emperor Constantine that began the tradition of Sunday worship.

Sorry, but you are creating your own church history from whole cloth. Nothing about this is true.

Any reading of from our early second and third century historians show otherwise. Sunday worship flowed directly from the first century Christians up to and including the present day. The only thing Constantine did was to declare a SECULAR Sunday holiday, which is something the church could not impose on the pagans.

You are entitled to your own beliefs 3rdAngel, but not to your own historic facts.

Perhaps do some more research and get your facts right before posting. It will help for a better discussion.

I see I've already done most of the research for you.

But don't get the idea that I am here to change your mind. I'm not. You can certainly dream up your own history if you want to, but changing actual history is a dream that stretches actual reality a bit too far.

I simply cannot place Ellen Whites visions over scripture or historical fact.

there is not a single scripture in all the bible that teaches that Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has now been abolished and we can now choose any day of the week as a holy day of rest.

You are becoming redundant. We've been through this before. Your 7th Day Sabbath has not been "abolished". At best, the most you can do is say that the Roman Catholic church, which simply was not around, replaced (not abolished) the 7th Day Sabbath with a first day resurrection.

Even here you cannot seem to agree with yourself, claiming it was Constantine who replaced it in one breath, only to claim it was the Roman Catholic Church with the other.

If you are going to present imaginary facts as facts, at least settle on which strawman you wish to bring.

Once again this is not a commandment to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest but to start organizing church offerings before Paul as going to arrive so he can take them to Jerusalem

And once again, there is no "Commandment" to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. We do it because Christ rose on that day. Christians are allowed to keep ANY day as their holy day or rest, including them all. After all, mankind started out in a state of rest with God, and not simply resting in God one day out of the week.

The only reason you believe otherwise is because your prophetess told you otherwise.

God rested on the 7th day not because He needed rest, but because he knew the exact point we would need it. We find that in Exodus 16, and it's explained perfectly throughout scripture.

Exodus 16 is the 1st mention of a Sabbath Day rest for the Jews. They had to have concept of a Sabbath Day rest explained to them because it had never been explained to them before.

God told them He rested on the Sabbath so now they can too. It was a day He made for mankind until His son is risen, because it was the Son that would bring us back to the rest we had in God before the fall.

Had Israel kept its promise, they would have been a light to mankind, and all mankind would have enjoyed this one day Sabbath rest. As stated, God didn't rest for Himself, He rested for mankind.

The fact that the Sabbath was originally for the Jews is discussed in Exodus 20, where he tells them to "REMEMBER" the Sabbath He instructed them on at Exodus 16. This is further explained at Deuteronomy 16, which tells that he

"but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God, on which you must not do any work—neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox or donkey or any of your livestock, nor the foreigner within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest as you do.​

Note that keeping the Sabbath meant keeping foreigners within your gates from working the Sabbath, something many Adventists simply don't do. If you own property, and you live in a two, or 3 family home, then any person living within that property is prohibited from working because they are "within your gates". This would extend to remote properties as well, as they are your gates and not the gates of your tenant or guests.

I feel I would have to keep my tenants from working on the Sabbath, because this is the plain reading of the biblical text. Failure to do so simply means I am not "keeping" the "4th". So the first thing, in big bold letters on my tenant's application for rent, will be:

DO YOU KEEP THE SABBATH?​

A NO answer means they don't get the apartment. A YES answer means they do. Any objection is "religious persecution" and only enforceable by COURT ORDER. Only then could I smugly claim to be "keeping the Sabbath". Anything less is on me, a testament to my own hypocrisy.

I suspect, however wrongly, that you fall woefully short on keeping the 4th Commandment. I have no intension of placing myself in a similar spiritual quagmire where I can stand like a Pharisee, claiming to do one thing while I keep doing another. It was an attractive indulgence for the Pharisees (Luke 18: 10-14), and might be for Adventists, but it's just not me.

Instead I am perfectly content enjoying my freedom in Christ. This is not to boast but to convey the personal satisfaction one derives when they place their full trust in Christ rather than the Law.

If at judgment, my accuser denounces me for placing "too much faith in Christ, and not enough in the Law" I am fine with that.

Also, as explained in Deuteronomy 5:15, it states Israel was to keep the Sabbath because He led them out of Egypt with a strong hand. I mentioned this biblical fact and I believe you called it "stupid".

I understand this reading goes against what your prophetess proclaims, but scripture is scripture 3rdAngel, and I don't believe God's explanation is stupid, but instructive.

We ignore scripture at our own peril. Either God is inconsistent, claiming our Sabbath is because He led us out of Egypt in one breath, while claiming it was because He rested on the 7th Day in another, or we reconcile all scripture, realizing God is not stating mankind's Sabbath began at creation, but began during the Exodus of Jews from Egypt.

Certainly if mankind's Sabbath rest had began at creation, it would not have come as new knowledge to the Jews at Exodus 16. Even if the Jews had forgotten, I'm sure the Egyptians or some other foreigner would have reminded them.

Look if you want a discussion lets have an honest one ok? 99% of the 40,000 different Christian Religions in the world today do not keep Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath of Gods 10 commandments which is one of Gods 10 commandments that give is the knowledge of good and right doing when obeyed and sin and evil when disobeyed according to the scriptures (see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172.

This is easily explained. The vast majority of people on this planet are not Jews, so there is no need for them to keep a Sabbath.

Also, ISRAEL IS ALWAYS ISRAEL. You prophetess, Ellen White, lived at a time prior to the establishment of the Jewish state. This led her to envision a world where 7th Day Adventists because "spiritual Jews" and claim her fellow Christians would "persecute" the Adventist church. Her vision was not God's plan however, as seen by the rise of the Jewish state in 1948. Most Christians today reject her "replacement theology" however some post Millerite religions, like Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses, still subscribe to it.

Unlike the law of Moses written in the book of the covenant by Moses (Exodus 24:7), every one of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard of Christian living and breaking anyone of them according to James is sin (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11).

Look lets not make false statements like you are doing here. Its just a distraction.

This is too funny 3rd Angel. Look, the 4th Commandment is NOT repeated in the New Testament, except as a command for those under the Law, and we are under Christ, not the Law.

Here are the Ten Commandments and where they are found in the New Testament:

1) Do not worship any other gods (1 Corinthians 8:6; 1 Timothy 2:5)

2) Do not make idols (1 John 5:21)

3) Do not misuse the name of the LORD (1 Timothy 6:1)

4) Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. (There are many references to the Sabbath day in the New Testament, including the assumption that Jews under the law in the time of Christ would be observing the Sabbath. But there is no direct or indirect command for believers in the church age to observe the Sabbath as a day of rest or of worship. In fact, Colossians 2:16 releases the believer from the Sabbath rule. Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, has become for us our Sabbath rest, according to Hebrews 4:1–11.)

5) Honor your father and your mother (Ephesians 6:1–2)

6) Do not murder (Romans 13:9; 1 Peter 4:15)

7) Do not commit adultery (1 Corinthians 6:9–10)

8) Do not steal (Ephesians 4:28)

9) Do not give false testimony (Revelation 21:8)

10) Do not covet (Colossians 3:5)

If you want to read more, simply consult Got Questions, here.

 

[Oeste]

sorry but you have completely forgotten that the Sabbath commandment is an extension of Genesis Ch 2...funny how this gets fogotten...Note the concordance cross references for Genesis Ch 2:1 are Exodus 16 and Hebrews 4!

Okay, let's read Genesis 2:1-3 in context, once again:

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.​

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.​

3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.​

​

This tells me GOD rested on the 7th Day. It does not tell me anything at all about MAN resting on the 7th Day.

That is to be expected, since man was ALREADY at rest in God, just as we now rest in Christ. Remember, Man was created on the SIXTH Day, and he wasn't created in a state of unrest. In fact, God found that His creation was "good", and I don't think unrest with God is "good".

Show us a mankind that was created in a state of unrest and you will have a valid argument. Anything short of this is simply adding something that isn't there.

So God rested from His works on the 7th Day. This foreshadows the Jewish Sabbath. It's not the "start" of the Jewish Sabbath, nor the "starting point" of mankind's Sabbath.

Mankind's rest started at the point of our creation on the SIXTH day, and not the SEVENTH. God continued working until the SEVENTH day when HE rested, as man was ALREADY resting in God. This rest on the SEVENTH day was for mankind FUTURE and NOT mankind CURRENT as mankind CURRENT was at that time "very good".

Mankind's rest in God DID NOT END until he thought to bite from the fruit.

I appreciate the citations @AdamEdgar, and they are well received, especially on a forum like this, but I think Adventists tend to embed a little doctrine with their reading of Genesis.

​

 

[Oeste]

It takes two witnesses to confirm any matter (Matthew 18:16

Matthew 18:16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that ON THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY MATTER MAY BE CONFIRMED.

Then there is no problem.

Mary did not arrive by herself, as she had either 2 or 3 witnesses with her and an empty tomb.

And while you don't believe Paul, at least believe Matthew, and others who write by the grace of the Holy Spirit.

Your two accounts do not match. Per John 20:1, Mary came early, when it was dark, and at that time there was no body. Using 3 days and 3 nights past the time of the burial, he had to be out of the ground at the same time he was put in, which was the late afternoon of Preparation Day. John says they came early on the first day of week while it was still dark, whereas early on the first day of the week is right after sundown, when it is dark. Mark says early on the first day of the week, which comes right after sundown, but then he says when the sun has risen, which is around 12 hours later. John is a first-person observer, but who is Mark? John 20 mentions Peter and John, but no Mark. Yeshua rose before any of them got there.

You only have two accounts, and they don't jive, therefore you have to fall back on the law in which all the disciples kept with regard to the Preparation day, and the high holy sabbath feast of Unleavened Bread, and the sign of Jonah, which is 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the beast/earth, which discounts a Friday evening burial and a supposedly Sunday resurrection, even using your Mark version. As hard as you may try, you will not get 3 nights into that equation. On the other hand, if one is keeping the law, then it is a Wednesday (14th of Nissan) late afternoon burial, and a Saturday late afternoon resurrection. With respect to the actual text, the King James bible per Matthew 28:1 reads "in the end of the Sabbath, and my NASB reads "late on the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, which would be the time nearing sunset of the Sabbath. Which is to say, apparently someone with 2000 years to work with, has added to the "words of this book" (Revelation 22:19). Whatever, you have not confirmed any matter with respect to your verses.

Your post sound like something taken directly from the writings of Herbert Armstrong. Are you a disciple from Armstrong? From and Adventist offshoot? Church of God maybe?

Doesn't matter. The point is, scripture does "jive", but it's already 3:50 in the morning, and while I find these topics enjoyable, it's very late, especially for me.

Here is my response:

If you have a bible which doesn't jive, then I would suggest a new bible, or a new understanding of what it is you have read.

As for the topic at hand, I can easily go the NKJV and see how the biblical account is put together:

(MAR. 16: 1) Now when the Sabbath was past...​

(MAR. 16: 2) Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week...​

(LUK. 24: 1) Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning...​

(JOH. 20: 1) Now the first day of the week...​

(MAT. 28: 1) Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn..​

This all seems to jive very well.

As mentioned before, your observations and conclusions seem to be based on the writing of Herbert Armstrong. I may be incorrect on this, but that's what it look like to me. It would certainly explain the disagreements you have with @3rdAngle, even though you are both Sabbatarians.

Armstrong was leader of the breakaway Church of God, proclaiming:

The prophesies and mysteries of God, sealed until now, are today revealed to those whom God has chosen to carry his last message to the world as a witness

So, if I am correct, we know who the "messenger" you previously mentioned was: Herbert Armstrong.

He also claims that his Worldwide Church of God was God's only true church while all others are counterfeits. Hmmm... where have we heard that before?

Of course! From Jehovah Witnesses, British Israelism, and Mormonism.

In any event, the vast majority from "Church of God" have repented and are now considered mainstream Protestants, but there are still some Church's who hold fast to Armstrong's false teachings.

With respect to the actual text, the King James bible per Matthew 28:1 reads "in the end of the Sabbath, and my NASB reads "late on the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, which would be the time nearing sunset of the Sabbath.

Sorry, but I'm not a "King James only" Christian, and I find some NASB's read differently:

NASB 1995​

Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.​

​

NASB 1977​

Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.​

​

As for the actual text at Matthew 28:1, Οψε δε σαββατων, I would suggest brushing up on the word "sabbaton" in a way that harmonizes, and not disagrees, with the written text of other New Testament authors.

So, from my perspective, you appear to harmonize scripture in accordance with Armstrong, while my other Sabbatarian friends harmonize in accordance with Ellen White, each to poor avail.

Have a good morning everyone! I'll get back to this as quickly as I can.

 

[3rdAngel]

Sorry, but you are creating your own church history from whole cloth. Nothing about this is true. Any reading of from our early second and third century historians show otherwise. Sunday worship flowed directly from the first century Christians up to and including the present day. The only thing Constantine did was to declare a SECULAR Sunday holiday, which is something the church could not impose on the pagans. You are entitled to your own beliefs 3rdAngel, but not to your own historic facts.

Please get your facts right before posting here. You are not telling the truth again. I did not write my own history that is something you are attempting to do in order to support your teachings of lawlessness. I posted you biblical evidence from the book of Romans. This is historical evidence that is undisputed. It is generally agreed by biblical scholars and historians that the book of Romans was written around 57AD (Wiki Linked). So the book of Romans in the bible is indisputable evidence that the Roman Catholic Church was in existence prior to your timing of when the Roman Catholic Church started. The Historical records also show that the Sabbath commandment has been kept unbroken from the days of time of prophets and kings in the old testament to the days of Jesus and the Apostles in the new testament to the early Church to this present day. Let me know if you want me to post you not only the historical biblical evidence but also the historical evidence from the 1st century AD to our current day. According to the historical records Constantine was involved in the first Sunday law in March 7, 321 AD in honor of the Sun God. However, Sunday gradually became a rest day. Although in the early Christian centuries Sunday worship services were held in Rome and Alexandria through Roman law, and increasingly in other places, Sunday was not regarded as a day of rest required by the fourth commandment. The development toward regarding Sunday as the complete substitute for the seventh-day Sabbath was a gradual process from the fourth to the twelfth century.

I see I've already done most of the research for you.

Well that is not true. You were the one claiming that the Roman Catholic Church did not start until many centuries after the death of Apostles right already disproven earlier and in the previous section in this post. As posted earlier, perhaps you are better off doing some more research and getting your facts right before posting. It will help for a better discussion.

But don't get the idea that I am here to change your mind. I'm not. You can certainly dream up your own history if you want to, but changing actual history is a dream that stretches actual reality a bit too far.

Nope dreaming up your own History is what you are trying to do as proven in the first section of this post here.

I simply cannot place Ellen Whites visions over scripture or historical fact.

You have not provided scripture and Historical fact so I would not know. You have only been posted in my replies to you scripture and historical fact that is in disagreement with you that you have been unable to respond to that show why your teachings of lawlessness and sin are unbiblical.

You are becoming redundant. We've been through this before. Your 7th Day Sabbath has not been "abolished". At best, the most you can do is say that the Roman Catholic church, which simply was not around, replaced (not abolished) the 7th Day Sabbath with a first day resurrection. Even here you cannot seem to agree with yourself, claiming it was Constantine who replaced it in one breath, only to claim it was the Roman Catholic Church with the other. If you are going to present imaginary facts as facts, at least settle on which strawman you wish to bring.

It is not being redundant by telling you the truth by posting scripture and historical facts that are in disagreement with your teachings of sin and lawlessness and answering your strawman arguments no one is arguing about. Lets be honest you have been unable to address my posts and scripture content that is in disagreement with you. Does this not worry you? It should. If your teachings of sin and lawlessness is against the scriptures then according to the scriptures you are simply walking in the path of sin and death (see Matthew 7:13-23 and Hebrews 10:26-31). Lets be honest, you sure like making lots of claims we to have I have said and believe that I have never said or believe and here you go again. Where did I ever say to you that Constantine replaced the Sabbath with Sunday? If I have never said these things why be untruthful and pretend that is what I have posted here? Please stop being dishonest with your post here. It does not really add much to your credibility but does support your teachings of sin and lawlessness.

And once again, there is no "Commandment" to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. We do it because Christ rose on that day. Christians are allowed to keep ANY day as their holy day or rest, including them all. After all, mankind started out in a state of rest with God, and not simply resting in God one day out of the week.

Where does it say in the scriptures we are to keep Sunday because Christ rose from the dead on Sunday? - It doesn't. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that teaches Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day or rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teachings and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word into breaking the commandments of God.

The only reason you believe otherwise is because your prophetess told you otherwise.

Please stop with your false claims and lies. I have only posted scripture to you and historical fact that is in disagreement with your teachings of lawlessness and sin.

God rested on the 7th day not because He needed rest, but because he knew the exact point we would need it.

Yep so why do you break Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment? This is sin according to the bible. (see James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4)

We find that in Exodus 16, and it's explained perfectly throughout scripture. Exodus 16 is the 1st mention of a Sabbath Day rest for the Jews. They had to have concept of a Sabbath Day rest explained to them because it had never been explained to them before.

The first mention of the Sabbath was in Genesis 2:1-3 where God blessed the seventh day as a holy day of rest as a memorial of creation to God as our creator for all mankind (Mark 2:27). Exodus 16 was the first Sabbath rest for the children of Israel coming out of the land of Egypt because they were slaves in Egypt and were unable to keep the Sabbath.

God told them He rested on the Sabbath so now they can too. It was a day He made for mankind until His son is risen, because it was the Son that would bring us back to the rest we had in God before the fall.

These are your words unsupported in the scriptures. Your argument fails here because that Sabbath was made before sin and before the fall for all mankind not aftter the fall when sin entered into the world. I guess you did not think your argument through here did you. Looks like the scrpitures are in disagreement with you.