Mark 10:19 per se quoting jesus left out that commandment. Why?
ps.... if Jesus was god why would there be ambiguity?
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"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
- Start date
ps.... if Jesus was god why would there be ambiguity?
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
There is no ambiguity if you understand the scriptures. Jesus is quoting those commandments to do with our duty of love to neighbor and to also show the rich young ruler that he may have indeed obeyed all these commandments from His youth up (second six of the 10 commandments) but what he neglected was his duty of love to God by showing Him that he loved His money more than God (Mark 10:17-22).
I dont get it.
The man asked how to earn life and jesus was clear..
How did you adlib all of the other claims? The lesson is clean: To earn life, follow the rules. If you do not comprehend that lean humility.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
He was asking what he personally must do... He put his money before God (see the context Mark 10:17-22).
MJ Bailey
Member
Personally I think when it comes down to it is that if you allot a specific amount of time each week in dedication to the Lord this could be placatable. I think sometimes people forget that having a relationship with God is just as personal as any other relationship we have, just way more complex. This fact however is sometimes forgotten.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
According to the scriptures no one can have a relationship with God if they do not believe and obey what Gods says (see John 3:36 and Matthew 7:21-23) as this is the very definition of what sin is (see 1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23) and sin is what separates us from God (see Isaiah 59:2). So it is not factual to say we can have a relationship with God but not believe and obey what Gods Word says. According to Gods Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments in Exodus 20:8-11 and Genesis 2:1-3 the Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week not any day of the week that God made as a holy day of rest for all mankind (Mark 2:27). In biblical time that is our Friday sunset to our Saturday sunset and just like anyone of Gods 10 commandments according to James in James 2:10-11 breaking it is sin according to the scriptures.
Take Care.
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Exactly. HE asked and jesus gave the answer, per the story.
But like most, they do now accept that following the rules is doing it right. That is why the next part was mentioned.
That is your adlib.
That next part is:
20 But he answering, said to him: Master, all these things I have observed from my youth.
21 And Jesus looking on him, loved him, and said to him: One thing is wanting unto thee: go, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.
22 Who being struck sad at that saying, went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
The religiously obtuse expect people to give their money to the church, claiming that is what jesus wants or as you twisted it; That the man put money before god.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Actually no its not. Jesus was teaching the Rich young ruler that he loved his money more than he loved God. Jesus told him to go sell all that he has and to give his money to the poor. The reason why the scriptures say he went away sorrowful in Mark 10:22. was because he did not want to give up us money and possessions and follow Jesus. This was the one thing Jesus said he lacked in Mark 10:21. So this was what Jesus said he was lacking to enter into Gods kingdom.
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That is not jesus words or claims. Otherwise show it in quotes with scripture to back it up.
Because like most christians, the man was not confident that following the commandments was the right way. Selling everything enables the mind to know humility.
Or prove to me, that you have sold everything that you have because you love god more than your money.
Did you sell everything that you have?
Or are you trying to speak for jesus?
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Sure it was.. I posted you the scripture references from Mark 10:21-22
No because he loves his money more than God. It became an idol for him. He was breaking Gods first and second commandment of our duty of love to God.
You missed the point. It was Jesus response to the question of the rich young ruler on his question "What must I do to enter into the kingdom of Heaven" see Mark 10:17.
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MArk 10:
17 And as he is going forth into the way, one having run and having kneeled to him, was questioning him, `Good teacher, what may I do, that life age-during I may inherit?'
18 And Jesus said to him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one [is] good except One -- God;
19 the commands thou hast known: Thou mayest not commit adultery, Thou mayest do no murder, Thou mayest not steal, Thou mayest not bear false witness, Thou mayest not defraud, Honour thy father and mother.'
20 And he answering said to him, `Teacher, all these did I keep from my youth.'
21 And Jesus having looked upon him, did love him, and said to him, `One thing thou dost lack; go away, whatever thou hast -- sell, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come, be following me, having taken up the cross.'
22 And he -- gloomy at the word -- went away sorrowing, for he was having many possessions.
There you did it again. You made up the meaning. Not one word by jesus in this about loves money nor idolatry.
You are making up reasons (interpretations)................. just like scribes and pharisee Wo to the....
I quoted it, and why you are debating on the scripture.
i know the bible.............
Luke 18:
18 And a certain ruler questioned him, saying, `Good teacher, what having done -- shall I inherit life age-during?'
19 And Jesus said to him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one [is] good, except One -- God;
20 the commands thou hast known: Thou mayest not commit adultery, Thou mayest do no murder, Thou mayest not steal, Thou mayest not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.'
IN clear words; to earn life, follow the rules.
That wisdom is as good now as it was then. I quoted the scripture because the sabbath stuff was not a part of jesus' rendition for a man to earn life.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Amazing do you actually read what you are posting? If you do.... It is quite obvious you do not understand it so we will have to agree to disagree here. Do you have anything to contribute to the OP?
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Oeste
Well-Known Member
I did not see this before but I consider it highly objectional, and a violation of RF's rules of conduct.
Ad hominem attacks are not sanctioned or permitted, and one of the reasons I like posting here, as opposed to some other forums is the fact that this forum is moderated.
Please...attack the post, not the poster. Posts are fair game.
Also, it's not necessary to quote a full post if you are only responding to a particular statement within a post.
In fact, RF has gone to great lengths to make their quoting feature simple, intuitive and easy to use. So, if you are a user who has just posted a 1200 word masterpiece, there is no reason for the 15 people who just read it to repost it 15 times when all 15 may only be objecting to a single line.
And no, I'm not saying there are no instances when a post should be fully quoted. I'm just saying that should be the exception and not the rule.
If paragraph 4 of your original post corrects a misapprehension someone had when they quoted paragraph 1, you only need quote paragraph 4 to erase the misapprehension.
A good response will focus the reader's attention to what you found objectionable, agreeable, or questionable without forcing everyone to read the entire text for a second time. The quote feature includes a link which allows the reader to check the original quote.
Lastly, I am not Jewish or a moderator, but I don't have to be to object to ad-hominems, or to enjoy a good but civil debate.
Bravo to you @metis, for calling this out, and kudos for @IndigoChild5559 for not feeling intimidated or responding in kind.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I did quote your whole post. I also quoted you exactly. You are basically caught red handed, and are flailing around trying to get out of it by attacking me.
Oeste
Well-Known Member
No, my "unanswered question" is simply still "unanswered". It's very simple and not that complicated.
No, it would apply to you but not apply to me or the majority of Christians. It applies to you because you distinctly and rather unequivocally place yourself under the Jewish Sabbath commandment. I do not.
Yes, we both have Sabbaths. But your Sabbath rest is on the 7th Day, and my Sabbath rest is in Christ, and as we all know, Christ is not "Lord, even under the Sabbath", but "Lord, even of the Sabbath".
Also, my Sabbath celebration is supported through a clear reading of the lens of scripture. Your Sabbath keeping appears to be supported through the lens of the prophetess Ellen White who, previous to her own visions, followed the false prophet, William Miller, which lead to the Great Disappointment..
As is the correct theology of the historic, Christian church. Misunderstandings are common across denominations. We all have them, which is what allows forums like these to function as vehicles of communication.
However, I also understand many post Millerite denominations, like the Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses, do not participate in ecumenical movements. I find this unfortunate as it helps foster misunderstandings, but I suppose JW's and Adventists will simply inform me there understanding is "biblically" based.
I'm afraid the commandment itself disagrees with you.
"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. [9] Six days you shall labor and do all your work, [10] but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. [11] For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
So for 6 days you are commanded to work, and on the 7th day you are commanded not to work.
Whether you work or don't work, it's still about "work", and whether you rest or don't rest, it's still about "rest".
I think the readers know who has shown their theology to be "ridiculous".
Absolutely! Since we are no longer under the law, but under grace, we should follow the commandments of Jesus.
Also, I'm curious about SDA's who claim to "keep" this commandment.
The command specifically states:
In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
This puts an additional requirements on Seventh Day Adventist who own property, as renting or leasing to tenants who work on Saturday prevents SDA's from properly keeping their Sabbath. Have any in your flock refused renting to "Sabbath breakers" based on religious reasons?
Oeste
Well-Known Member
Many wonder how Adventists can hold to keeping Law, specifically why they hold the "4th" Commandment as compulsory for Christians.
As stated earlier, Ellen White, confounder of the Adventist movement, had a series of approximately 2,000 visions which heavily influenced how Adventists view scripture.
According to the Pillars of Adventism:
Fundamental Belief #18:
With this in mind, that Adventists believe in the divine authority of scripture as well as the writing of Ellen White, we can why Adventists might reinterpret scripture in a way or manner that keeps their founder's doctrines a primary, yet appears to be in keeping with scripture.
Let's look at one one of her visions.
In 1847, just 3 years after the Great Disappointment (William Miller's prophesy that Christ would return in 1843, and when that failed, in 1844), she had a vision that she had been shown the law of God:
So here we have White's vision and interpretation. All 10 commandments are opened by Jesus before her, but it is the 4th commandment that glows, it is the Sabbath commandment that "shone above them all".
Christians will note this is in direct opposition to scripture:
So, for Adventists, the keeping Sabbath is the primary Commandment in the law, whereas scripture tells us that loving God is the primary commandment for us.
The teaching of White and scripture on this are irreconcilable. Jesus does not raise the Sabbath as the first or even the second greatest commandment.
Conclusion:
I think from this, we can safely conclude that the tablets did not glow the same for Jesus as they did for Ellen White.
As stated earlier, Ellen White, confounder of the Adventist movement, had a series of approximately 2,000 visions which heavily influenced how Adventists view scripture.
According to the Pillars of Adventism:
Fundamental Belief #18:
"In the last days, as in biblical times, the Holy Spirit has blessed God's people with the gift of prophecy. One who demonstrated this gift was Ellen G. White, one of the founding pioneers of the Seventh-day Adventist church.
"The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.[15]
The church believes the spiritual gift of prophecy was manifested in the ministry of Ellen White, whose writings are sometimes referred to as the "Spirit of Prophecy". Two other official statements regarding the prophetic ministry of Ellen White have recently been voted at General Conference Sessions. The June 1995 document A Statement of Confidence in the Spirit of Prophecy states that White "did the work of a prophet, and more", and that her writings "carry divine authority, both for godly living and for doctrine"; and recommended that "as a church we seek the power of the Holy Spirit to apply to our lives more fully the inspired counsel contained in the writings of Ellen G White." The 2005 document Resolution on the Spirit of Prophecy called upon "Seventh-day Adventists throughout the world to prayerfully study her writings, in order to understand more fully God's purpose for His remnant people", describing her writings as "theological stimulus".
With this in mind, that Adventists believe in the divine authority of scripture as well as the writing of Ellen White, we can why Adventists might reinterpret scripture in a way or manner that keeps their founder's doctrines a primary, yet appears to be in keeping with scripture.
Let's look at one one of her visions.
In 1847, just 3 years after the Great Disappointment (William Miller's prophesy that Christ would return in 1843, and when that failed, in 1844), she had a vision that she had been shown the law of God:
Jesus stood by the ark, and as the saints’ prayers came up to Him, the incense in the censer would smoke, and He would offer up their prayers with the smoke of the incense to His Father.
In the ark was the golden pot of manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of stone, which folded together like a book. Jesus opened them, and I saw the ten commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were four, and on the other six. The four on the first table shone brighter than the other six. But the fourth, the Sabbath commandment, shone above them all; for the Sabbath was set apart to be kept in honor of God's holy name. The holy Sabbath looked glorious—a halo of glory was all around it....
And I saw that if God had changed the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day, He would have changed the writing of the Sabbath commandment, written on the tables of stone, which are now in the ark in the most holy place of the temple in heaven; and it would read thus: The first day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. But I saw that it read the same as when written on the tables of stone by the finger of God, and delivered to Moses on Sinai, “But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God.” I saw that the holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers; and that the Sabbath is the great question to unite the hearts of God's dear, waiting saints.
I saw that God had children who do not see and keep the Sabbath. They have not rejected the light upon it. And at the commencement of the time of trouble, we were filled with the Holy Ghost as we went forth and proclaimed the Sabbath more fully.—Life Sketches of Ellen G. White, 100, 101.
So here we have White's vision and interpretation. All 10 commandments are opened by Jesus before her, but it is the 4th commandment that glows, it is the Sabbath commandment that "shone above them all".
Christians will note this is in direct opposition to scripture:
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “ 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. ' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. (Matthew 22:36-40)
So, for Adventists, the keeping Sabbath is the primary Commandment in the law, whereas scripture tells us that loving God is the primary commandment for us.
The teaching of White and scripture on this are irreconcilable. Jesus does not raise the Sabbath as the first or even the second greatest commandment.
Conclusion:
I think from this, we can safely conclude that the tablets did not glow the same for Jesus as they did for Ellen White.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Hmm all I see here are a bunch of lies taken out of context to promote your teachings of lawlessness that does not agree with the bible here as a distraction to the OP. Now lets talk bible. Where is the scripture that says Gods Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus? If you have no scripture to prove this man-made teaching and lie, just be honest and say so. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness which you are promoting. According to the scriptures those who continue in known unrepentant sin will stand before God lost in their sins according to Hebrews 10:26-31.
Anyone who is a Christian and knows scripture will tell you that Jesus quoting the two great commandments of love to God and man from Matthew 22:36-40 is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 and that love does not abolish the need to obey Gods law but is how Gods law is to be obeyed from Gods promise of a new heart to love from Jeremiah 31:31-36; Ezekiel 36:24-27 and Hebrews 8:10-12. This is why Jesus says at the end of quoting the two great commandments of love to God and man "Hang all the law and the prophets" (Matthew 22:40). This is also in agreement with what Paul says in Romans 13:8-10 where the scripture teaches that love obeys Gods law and that the second great commandment of love to man is simply summing up those commandments to do with loving our fellow man. What this means is that if we love our neighbor we will not lie to them, steal from them, commit adultery with their spouse, murder them or covet their belonging. Therefore you do err not knowing the scriptures teaching your doctrine of lawlessness which is simply the teachings of devils according to the scriptures.
The Sabbath is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is (see 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7) and according to James in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. This includes Gods Sabbath commandment that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that teaches anyone of Gods 10 commandments has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is simply a man-made teaching and lie that has led many away from God and His Word into sin and unbelief against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 and as the scriptures teach all those who choose to continue in known unrepentant sin will perish in their sins (Hebrews 10:26-31).
You are walking a path of lawlessness that the bible teaches us not to. *Matthew 7:13-23; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-9; Matthew 5:17-19.
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Ebionite
Well-Known Member
But you're not lying when you attack Islam after you refuse to acknowledge the covenant that includes Ishmael, right?
In the same day YHWH made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
Genesis 15:18
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Indeed. Islam is a false religion according to the torah