I had created a thread in the Jehovahs Witness DIR regarding the “translation team” that created “The New World Translation”, the text they use as a Bible. I attempted to gain information specifically about the four men who were, historically, the “translation team” for this text, their level of qualifications and the process that would have allowed them to create a bible. I am not getting much specific relevant information in that thread and so would like to try to gain information in a larger thread having a greater chance of having individuals who have information concerning this team and their qualifications and the process by which they created the “New World Translation” of a bible.
1) WHAT WAS THE TRAINING AND KNOWLEDGE LEVEL OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO “MADE” THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESS BIBLE
The historical description of Frederick Franz, the most educated in ancient language, is that he had little knowledge; understanding, experience, and ability at making any Biblical translation. Yet, he was, apparently, the “best of the group” in language. Please, if anyone has any additional information that changes this scholastic description, please to add any information you have regarding Frederick Franz’ language training that I might have missed.
Raymond Franz (another board member) said Frederick had no formal education in Hebrew at all. Again, if any reader knows of any formal education ANY board member had in ancient language that I might have missed in my historical search, plese let me know if you are aware of any other formal training he had. Biographies of Franz tell us that he had a single introductory college course in koine (biblical) Greek though he had some education in lower level classical (non biblical) greek at the U of Cincinnati during his two years of college.
I have, so far, only a small amount of information on the other four individuals who were on this “translation committee”. Raymond Franz described the other members (Knorr, Schroder, and Gangas) as not having “sufficient knowledge of the Bible languages to attempt translation of this kind”.
2) THE SOURCE TEXTS CLAIMED FOR THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION
A Jehovahs Witness forum member Pegg tells us : “ As a basis for translating the Hebrew Scriptures, the text of Rudolf Kittel’s Biblia Hebraica, editions of 1951-1955, was used. The 1984 revision of the New World Translation benefited from updating in harmony with the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia of 1977. Additionally, the Dead Sea Scrolls and numerous early translations into other languages were consulted. For the Christian Greek Scriptures, the master Greek text of 1881 as prepared by Westcott and Hort was used primarily, but several other master texts were consulted as well as numerous early versions in other languages. “
The difficulty I have with this description is that all of these texts are in ancient languages and require translation into english which, these men would not have been able to do. Biblia Hebraica is in Hebrew, as is Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia; as are the Dead Sea scrolls. The “master Greek text” of W&H is, obviously, in Greek. It also says they “consulted” other version in other languages which, presumably, none of them were remotely fluent in so as to allow them to “translate”.
3) HOW DOES A “TRANSLATION COMMITTEE” THAT CANNOT READ ANCIENT BIBLICAL LANGUAGES WELL, USE ANCIENT TEXTS IN ANCIENT LANGUAGE TO CREATE A BIBLE IN ENGLISH?
IF, these men with only rudimentary ancient language skill “consulted” multiple Hebrew and Koine Greek texts (especially the ones in non-pointed and non-national Hebrew – that is very, very difficult stuff, even for the experts) then how did these individuals use such texts, having no way to even read them accurately, much less use them intelligently so as to make any translation from texts they could not read?
4) CONSIDER A “TRANSLATION COMMITTEE” OF THE NESTLE-ALAND NEW TESTAMENT
One can identify and describe the committees creating many of our modern bibles (Doug Moo and the NIV team, NA team, etc), One can pick out and describe the team members who translated the Dead Sea Scrolls (Cross, etc). All of these texts were given to individual who were both educated and able to create translations which were credible and fairly reliable (given the task and challenge of early texts).
For example, Consider the Nestle-Aland committee members compared to the members of the Jehovah’s Witness translation committee members :
Barbara Aland, of the Nestly-Aland translation team, has a doctorate of literature; a doctorate of divinity; a doctor of theology in Germany, and has received multiple awards in america; Germany, Netherlands, etc.. Her list of monographs and her depth of linguistic discovery is fairly impressive. She participated in the creation of at least 4 editions of the new testament from greek.
Kurt Aland of the Nestly-Aland translation team had a bachelor’s degree in 1940 in Germany. By 1959, he was a University professor and has honorary doctorates bestowed on him from three different countries, Germany at the U of Gottingen, St. Andrew in Scottland, and Wartburg in the United states. He’s received multiple awards over 30 years from the patriarchate of Alexandra, from the british academy, from Germany, a life member of the American bible society (and he is not even American). His critical text GN4 is THE translators critical text that is most widely known and used by translators the world over.
Johannes Karavidopoulos of the Nestly-Aland translation team is an editor in the most commonly used critical edition of the translators tool GN4 (4th ed Greek New Testament), he is an Orthodox scholar and emeritus professor of New Testament at the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki.
Carlo M. Martini of the Nestly-Aland translation team, was an Italian Jesuit, archbishop of Milan, and cardinal of the Catholic Church. He had a doctorate in fundamental theology and another doctorate on top of that in scripture and his PhD thesis was on ancient Lukan codices. He was the only Catholic member of the committee that published the Novum Testamentum Graece. Dr. Martini had a great deal of knowledge, skill and experience in dealing with ancient texts and ancient languages.
Bruce M. Metzger , of the Nestly-Aland translation team, obtained his first university degree in theology from Princeton and, by 1938 was already teaching new testament greek at Princeton where he earned an MA in 1940. His PhD from Princeton was supported by a thesis on a greek gospel lectionary. He was president of the society of biblical literature. He’s received honors from the British Academy and has honorary doctorates from Levanon Valley College, Findlay College, the University of St. Andrews in Scotland, the University of Munster in Germany and from Potchefstroom University (North-West University). He is considered one of the most influential New Testament scholars of the twentieth century.
Anyone can examine the qualifications of each of these members on this team and what they brought to the task of translation from ancient languages. The same can be done for Doug Moo and the NIV translational team, or the DSS translators, etc.
5) COMPARE THE JEHOVAHS WITNESS TEAM TO ANY STANDARD TEAM OF TRANSLATORS
Frederick Franz who was the main translator of the New World Translation did not even graduate college and had only a single, introductory college class in biblical Greek.
If Nathan Knorr, a member of the Jehovahs Witness translation committee had even less language knowledge and skill than Frederick Franz, what was his purpose and what did he do?
If albert Schroder, a member of the Jehovahs Witness translation committee also had even less language knowledge and skill than Frederick Franz, what was his purpose and what did he do?
What did the members of the Jehovah Witness “Translation Team” bring to their task of translation from ancient languages if none of them could fluently read any ancient language?
If George Gangas was also a member of the Jehovahs Witness translation committee had even less language knowledge and skill than Frederick Franz, what was his purpose and what did he do?
6) IF THE JEHOVAHS WITNESS TEAM COULD NOT TRANSLATE FROM ANCIENT LANGUAGES, THEN WHAT DOES IT MEAN THAT THEY "CONSULTED" VERSIONS THAT EXIST IN ANCIENT LANGUAGES?
Why would the “New World Translation” even offer a list of bibles in ancient languages that were “consulted” if none of the members on the team could even read them fluently so as to make use of such texts? It makes no sense to say they either "consulted" or "used" such texts when no one on the team had the knowledge to read them fluently? Is it a fascade for scholasticism, an attempt to appear credible?
What linguistic skills did the Jehovahs Witness team have that allows them to claim they used ANY ancient language text if none of them were fluent in any ancient language the bibles were written in?
Clear
1) WHAT WAS THE TRAINING AND KNOWLEDGE LEVEL OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO “MADE” THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESS BIBLE
The historical description of Frederick Franz, the most educated in ancient language, is that he had little knowledge; understanding, experience, and ability at making any Biblical translation. Yet, he was, apparently, the “best of the group” in language. Please, if anyone has any additional information that changes this scholastic description, please to add any information you have regarding Frederick Franz’ language training that I might have missed.
Raymond Franz (another board member) said Frederick had no formal education in Hebrew at all. Again, if any reader knows of any formal education ANY board member had in ancient language that I might have missed in my historical search, plese let me know if you are aware of any other formal training he had. Biographies of Franz tell us that he had a single introductory college course in koine (biblical) Greek though he had some education in lower level classical (non biblical) greek at the U of Cincinnati during his two years of college.
I have, so far, only a small amount of information on the other four individuals who were on this “translation committee”. Raymond Franz described the other members (Knorr, Schroder, and Gangas) as not having “sufficient knowledge of the Bible languages to attempt translation of this kind”.
2) THE SOURCE TEXTS CLAIMED FOR THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION
A Jehovahs Witness forum member Pegg tells us : “ As a basis for translating the Hebrew Scriptures, the text of Rudolf Kittel’s Biblia Hebraica, editions of 1951-1955, was used. The 1984 revision of the New World Translation benefited from updating in harmony with the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia of 1977. Additionally, the Dead Sea Scrolls and numerous early translations into other languages were consulted. For the Christian Greek Scriptures, the master Greek text of 1881 as prepared by Westcott and Hort was used primarily, but several other master texts were consulted as well as numerous early versions in other languages. “
The difficulty I have with this description is that all of these texts are in ancient languages and require translation into english which, these men would not have been able to do. Biblia Hebraica is in Hebrew, as is Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia; as are the Dead Sea scrolls. The “master Greek text” of W&H is, obviously, in Greek. It also says they “consulted” other version in other languages which, presumably, none of them were remotely fluent in so as to allow them to “translate”.
3) HOW DOES A “TRANSLATION COMMITTEE” THAT CANNOT READ ANCIENT BIBLICAL LANGUAGES WELL, USE ANCIENT TEXTS IN ANCIENT LANGUAGE TO CREATE A BIBLE IN ENGLISH?
IF, these men with only rudimentary ancient language skill “consulted” multiple Hebrew and Koine Greek texts (especially the ones in non-pointed and non-national Hebrew – that is very, very difficult stuff, even for the experts) then how did these individuals use such texts, having no way to even read them accurately, much less use them intelligently so as to make any translation from texts they could not read?
4) CONSIDER A “TRANSLATION COMMITTEE” OF THE NESTLE-ALAND NEW TESTAMENT
One can identify and describe the committees creating many of our modern bibles (Doug Moo and the NIV team, NA team, etc), One can pick out and describe the team members who translated the Dead Sea Scrolls (Cross, etc). All of these texts were given to individual who were both educated and able to create translations which were credible and fairly reliable (given the task and challenge of early texts).
For example, Consider the Nestle-Aland committee members compared to the members of the Jehovah’s Witness translation committee members :
Barbara Aland, of the Nestly-Aland translation team, has a doctorate of literature; a doctorate of divinity; a doctor of theology in Germany, and has received multiple awards in america; Germany, Netherlands, etc.. Her list of monographs and her depth of linguistic discovery is fairly impressive. She participated in the creation of at least 4 editions of the new testament from greek.
Kurt Aland of the Nestly-Aland translation team had a bachelor’s degree in 1940 in Germany. By 1959, he was a University professor and has honorary doctorates bestowed on him from three different countries, Germany at the U of Gottingen, St. Andrew in Scottland, and Wartburg in the United states. He’s received multiple awards over 30 years from the patriarchate of Alexandra, from the british academy, from Germany, a life member of the American bible society (and he is not even American). His critical text GN4 is THE translators critical text that is most widely known and used by translators the world over.
Johannes Karavidopoulos of the Nestly-Aland translation team is an editor in the most commonly used critical edition of the translators tool GN4 (4th ed Greek New Testament), he is an Orthodox scholar and emeritus professor of New Testament at the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki.
Carlo M. Martini of the Nestly-Aland translation team, was an Italian Jesuit, archbishop of Milan, and cardinal of the Catholic Church. He had a doctorate in fundamental theology and another doctorate on top of that in scripture and his PhD thesis was on ancient Lukan codices. He was the only Catholic member of the committee that published the Novum Testamentum Graece. Dr. Martini had a great deal of knowledge, skill and experience in dealing with ancient texts and ancient languages.
Bruce M. Metzger , of the Nestly-Aland translation team, obtained his first university degree in theology from Princeton and, by 1938 was already teaching new testament greek at Princeton where he earned an MA in 1940. His PhD from Princeton was supported by a thesis on a greek gospel lectionary. He was president of the society of biblical literature. He’s received honors from the British Academy and has honorary doctorates from Levanon Valley College, Findlay College, the University of St. Andrews in Scotland, the University of Munster in Germany and from Potchefstroom University (North-West University). He is considered one of the most influential New Testament scholars of the twentieth century.
Anyone can examine the qualifications of each of these members on this team and what they brought to the task of translation from ancient languages. The same can be done for Doug Moo and the NIV translational team, or the DSS translators, etc.
5) COMPARE THE JEHOVAHS WITNESS TEAM TO ANY STANDARD TEAM OF TRANSLATORS
Frederick Franz who was the main translator of the New World Translation did not even graduate college and had only a single, introductory college class in biblical Greek.
If Nathan Knorr, a member of the Jehovahs Witness translation committee had even less language knowledge and skill than Frederick Franz, what was his purpose and what did he do?
If albert Schroder, a member of the Jehovahs Witness translation committee also had even less language knowledge and skill than Frederick Franz, what was his purpose and what did he do?
What did the members of the Jehovah Witness “Translation Team” bring to their task of translation from ancient languages if none of them could fluently read any ancient language?
If George Gangas was also a member of the Jehovahs Witness translation committee had even less language knowledge and skill than Frederick Franz, what was his purpose and what did he do?
6) IF THE JEHOVAHS WITNESS TEAM COULD NOT TRANSLATE FROM ANCIENT LANGUAGES, THEN WHAT DOES IT MEAN THAT THEY "CONSULTED" VERSIONS THAT EXIST IN ANCIENT LANGUAGES?
Why would the “New World Translation” even offer a list of bibles in ancient languages that were “consulted” if none of the members on the team could even read them fluently so as to make use of such texts? It makes no sense to say they either "consulted" or "used" such texts when no one on the team had the knowledge to read them fluently? Is it a fascade for scholasticism, an attempt to appear credible?
What linguistic skills did the Jehovahs Witness team have that allows them to claim they used ANY ancient language text if none of them were fluent in any ancient language the bibles were written in?
Clear
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