The illogical idea proves free will

[Nous]

One doesn't.

However, one doesn't have to will oneself to engage in these acts.

The distinction is that "will" isn't an activity, it's not a step in the process. To add it is to add something superfluous.

A car doesn't deliberately do anything. Right?

There is a difference between what a car does every day and what I did in saying that I will do something that I had never done before, then doing it.

To say that one "willed something" is not the same as to say that they willfully "did something." The former invokes the supernatural and images of mental powers, but the latter is normal vernacular.

It seems you have an irrational bias against using "will" as a verb. It is correctly used as a verb, as well as a noun. Here's what it means as a verb:

verb (used with object), willed, willing.

9. to decide, bring about, or attempt to effect or bring about by an act of the will:

He can walk if he wills it.

10. to purpose, determine on, or elect, by an act of will:

If he wills success, he can find it.

11. to give or dispose of (property) by a will or testament; bequeath or devise.

12. to influence by exerting control over someone's impulses and actions:

She was willed to walk the tightrope by the hypnotist.

verb (used without object), willed, willing.

13. to exercise the will:

To will is not enough, one must do.

14. to decide or determine:

Others debate, but the king wills.​

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/will?s=t

To will myself to write this sentence is an entirely natural use of my causally efficacious mind.

It took mental concentration to write, yes.

You had to will yourself to write those words backwards, and will yourself to concentrate. None of that just happened like a sneeze or an itch.

 

[Willamena]

It seems you have an irrational bias against using "will" as a verb.

I don't... but I will if you keep this up.

It is correctly used as a verb, as well as a noun. Here's what it means as a verb:

verb (used with object), willed, willing.

9. to decide, bring about, or attempt to effect or bring about by an act of the will:

He can walk if he wills it.

10. to purpose, determine on, or elect, by an act of will:

If he wills success, he can find it.

11. to give or dispose of (property) by a will or testament; bequeath or devise.

12. to influence by exerting control over someone's impulses and actions:

She was willed to walk the tightrope by the hypnotist.

verb (used without object), willed, willing.

13. to exercise the will:

To will is not enough, one must do.

14. to decide or determine:

Others debate, but the king wills.​

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/will?s=t

As I said, to refer to it as an act ("bring about by an act of will") invokes an image of the supernatural or mental powers. I do appreciate that people do use it in that manner.

You wanted an alternative to that: that will is not an act is an alternative. Will is us doing things, and adding the superfluous act is unnecessary.

To will myself to write this sentence is an entirely natural use of my causally efficacious mind.

You had to will yourself to write those words backwards, and will yourself to concentrate. None of that just happened like a sneeze or an itch.

I just don't see mind that way.

 

[Nous]

I don't... but I will if you keep this up.

You just used "will" as a verb.

How were you able to determine what you "will" do in the future "if I keep this up"?

As I said, to refer to it as an act ("bring about by an act of will") invokes an image of the supernatural or mental powers.

You haven't noted any empirical distinction between “deliberately bringing about” a result and willing a bodily movement.

You haven't explained how someone could deliberately bring about a result without willing their bodies to do something.

People who have accidents and somehow lose the ability to walk often have to engage in a lot deliberate willing of moving their legs in order to re-learn to walk.

By the way, you didn't respond to my question as to whether a car does anything deliberately. Is that question too troubling?

 

[Willamena]

You just used "will" as a verb.

I did, yes.

How were you able to determine what you "will" do in the future "if I keep this up"?

It was rhetorical, in the vein of disapproval.

You haven't noted any empirical distinction between “deliberately bringing about” a result and willing a bodily movement.

You haven't explained how someone could deliberately bring about a result without willing their bodies to do something.

Simply, bringing about is the act. Willing a result to happen is extraneous to the act of bringing it about.

Wiling it doesn't "explain" any more or less than bringing it about.

People who have accidents and somehow lose the ability to walk often have to engage in a lot deliberate willing of moving their legs in order to re-learn to walk.

Or, they have to engage in the deliberate moving of their legs. To add "willing" to that picture isn't necessary. The very act of their deliberately moving their legs is an exercise of their will. Will isn't an additional step that needs to be added to that picture.

By the way, you didn't respond to my question as to whether a car does anything deliberately. Is that question too troubling?

Cars, like zombies, are not conscious. They are the alternative to a person with free will.

 

[Nous]

You haven't noted any empirical distinction between “deliberately bringing about” a result and willing a bodily movement.

You haven't explained how someone could deliberately bring about a result without willing their bodies to do something.

Simply, bringing about is the act. Willing a result to happen is extraneous to the act of bringing it about.

I don't have a clue what that is supposed to mean, or how it is supposed to answer the question as to how someone can "deliberately bring about" a result without willing his/her body to do something.

It sounds to me that you're trying to say something like: "Yes, a person can intentionally kick a ball. But she can't intend to kick a ball then kick it." It doesn't make sense to me.

Wiling it doesn't "explain" any more or less than bringing it about.

Sure it does. If I want to bring about the result of my statements here in this message to be posted on the RF website, I had to will (or cause) my fingers to hit certain keys on my keyboard, and use my hand to manipulate the mouse to click certain buttons, etc., etc.