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The idea of receiving Jesus - John 1:12

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
1. What is the modern definition of "receiving Jesus?" I have heard the modern definition means 'received him as savior'. Am I right?
2. What was the original intent when John wrote "To all who received Him..."?

3. Do the two match?

The greek for the word receive in John 1:12 is

λαμβνω,v \{lam-ban'-o}
1) to take 1a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it 1a1) to take up a thing to be carried 1a2) to take upon one's self 1b) to take in order to carry away 1b1) without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away 1c) to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own 1c1) to claim, procure, for one's self 1c1a) to associate with one's self as companion, attendant 1c2) of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend 1c3) to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud 1c4) to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriat to one's self 1c5) catch at, reach after, strive to obtain 1c6) to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute) 1d) to take 1d1) to admit, receive 1d2) to receive what is offered 1d3) not to refuse or reject 1d4) to receive a person, givehim access to one's self, 1d41) to regard any one's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something 1e) to take, to choose, select 1f) to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience 2) to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get back

Personally, I don't believe John 1:12 reads

Yet to all who received him 'as savior', to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God---

Because:
1. If John had meant received 'as savior', as is a popular notion today, then they would not need the right/power to become children of God, as they would already be children of God, by virtue of having received Him as savior.

2. Chronologically, it makes more sense that, as the ones who gave Jesus a deserving reception, as opposed to those who rejected him, that they would be the ones granted the right to become His children.

3. It says that to all who received him, believed in His name, He gave the right/power/authority to become children of God. That's different than already being there.

4. It simply does not say, -Yet to all who received him 'As savior'...
 
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Rocky S

Christian Goth
1. What is the modern definition of "receiving Jesus?"
2. What was the original intent when John wrote "To all who received Him..."?

Do the two match?

The greek for the word receive in John 1:12 is

λαμβνω,v \{lam-ban'-o}
1) to take 1a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it 1a1) to take up a thing to be carried 1a2) to take upon one's self 1b) to take in order to carry away 1b1) without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away 1c) to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own 1c1) to claim, procure, for one's self 1c1a) to associate with one's self as companion, attendant 1c2) of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend 1c3) to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud 1c4) to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriat to one's self 1c5) catch at, reach after, strive to obtain 1c6) to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute) 1d) to take 1d1) to admit, receive 1d2) to receive what is offered 1d3) not to refuse or reject 1d4) to receive a person, givehim access to one's self, 1d41) to regard any one's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something 1e) to take, to choose, select 1f) to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience 2) to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get back
Actually the scripture is pretty self explanatory; "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" basically to not reject him and accept who he is and what he did,ie his death burial and resurrection. The verse before also gives some clarity as well, and the one after.
 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
Actually the scripture is pretty self explanatory; "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" basically to not reject him and accept who he is and what he did,ie his death burial and resurrection. The verse before also gives some clarity as well, and the one after.
I agree except for that Jesus hadn't died and been resurrected yet. They had not rejected him based on what he had done and said thus far.

That is the Biblical definition. What is today's popular definition of receiving Jesus? My impression is of one receiving Jesus as one's savior, assuming Jesus offered himself in such a way.
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I agree except for that Jesus hadn't died and been resurrected yet. They had not rejected him based on what he had done and said thus far.

What is today's popular definition of receiving Jesus?
I don't think "today's popular definition" has much to do with orthodox theology.
 

Shermana

Heretic
Actually the scripture is pretty self explanatory; "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" basically to not reject him and accept who he is and what he did,ie his death burial and resurrection. The verse before also gives some clarity as well, and the one after.

Jesus also says that those who truly believe on him will be able to do works greater than him (i.e. miracles/supernatural abilities).

So unless you see a Christian doing miraculous works greater than Jesus, chances are that their idea of "believing on him" is quite different than what the text intended. (i.e. actually believing in what he taught and obeying it).
 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
Jesus also says that those who truly believe on him will be able to do works greater than him (i.e. miracles/supernatural abilities).

So unless you see a Christian doing miraculous works greater than Jesus, chances are that their idea of "believing on him" is quite different than what the text intended. (i.e. actually believing in what he taught and obeying it).
So they did. Jesus didn't say miracles would be forever. His main reason for coming was to seek and save what lost.
 

Shermana

Heretic
So they did. Jesus didn't say miracles would be forever. His main reason for coming was to seek and save what lost.

Ummm, by that logic he didn't say miracles would be temporary either.

I hope you realize what sorts of cans of worms your logic of what Jesus didn't say was permanent would open.
 
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Shermana

Heretic
Additionally, I'd say the context of the concept of "receiving" was to actually accept and obey what he taught and promoted regarding how to act and live, it had nothing to do with him teaching about his death and ressurrection whatsoever, but the actual this-world teachings and parables.
 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
Ummm, by that logic he didn't say miracles would be temporary either.

I hope you realize what sorts of cans of worms your logic of what Jesus didn't say was permanent would open.
Let's save that for a gifts of the Spirit thread.
Here let's address about what John intended by "To all who received him...".
 

Shermana

Heretic
Let's save that for a gifts of the Spirit thread.
Here let's address about what John intended by "To all who received him...".

Why? It very much has to do with the subject. The same words "Believe on" is used to say that those who do so will do works greater than these. Thus, it's quite clearly showing that not just everyone who claims to believe in him are fitting what the scripture says unless they can do such things with their "gifts of the Spirit". If you don't have "Gifts of the Spirit", then your idea of "Believing on" him is not what the author intended but some artificial populace-placating dogma. The very reason you said that he didn't say it was forever was likely to get around this problem. Thus, those who claim to "believe on him" but don't do such works don't really "believe on him" in the original implication.

Look at Matthew 7:22-23. Not everyone who calls Jesus "Lord" is getting on the Train to heaven. In fact, many of those will be cast away and rejected as "Doers of Lawlessness". To reduce it to this concept that doesn't involve actual behavioral issues (i.e. the commonplace anti-works "grace" doctrine)without the context of obeying all of his teachings and parables and code of earthly conduct is to fall right into what Matthew 7:22-23 warns about.

The most likely context of "receiving him" probably had nothing to do whatsoever with accepting his "Death and ressurection" but in accepting his commandments and all his real-world teachings like the Sermon on the Mount and accepting him as the Jewish Messiah, ("If you don't love me then you won't obey my teachings") in the context of what the Jewish Messiah was supposed to be. That may have indeed involved accepting him as the prophecied guilt offering, but most certainly not the crux of the point. If you don't obey Jesus's teachings but just go by some idea of "believing in his death and ressurection", then you probably have a vastly different idea of what it means to "believe on him" and "receive him" than was intended.
 
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e.r.m.

Church of Christ
The most likely context of "receiving him" probably had nothing to do whatsoever with accepting his "Death and ressurection" but in accepting his commandments and all his real-world teachings like the Sermon on the Mount and accepting him as the Jewish Messiah, ("If you don't love me then you won't obey my teachings") in the context of what the Jewish Messiah was supposed to be. That may have indeed involved accepting him as the prophecied guilt offering, but most certainly not the crux of the point. If you don't obey Jesus's teachings but just go by some idea of "believing in his death and ressurection", then you probably have a vastly different idea of what it means to "believe on him" and "receive him" than was intended.

I think you're totally correct on this. It has to do with accepting who Jesus initially claimed to be.

The gifts don't pertain because of what is being asked.
Specifically, Preachers teach accept/receive Jesus "as Savior" & they refer to John 1:12 to say "see, the Bible says to receive Jesus as savior". My question is does John 1:12 justify the teaching of receiving Jesus "as Savior", or is it just plain "receiving Jesus" sans as savior?
 
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Shermana

Heretic
I think you're totally correct on this. It has to do with accepting who Jesus initially claimed to be.

The gifts don't pertain because of what is being asked.
Specifically, Preachers teach accept/receive Jesus "as Savior" & they refer to John 1:12 to say "see, the Bible says to receive Jesus as savior". My question is does John 1:12 justify the teaching of receiving Jesus "as Savior", or is it just plain "receiving Jesus" sans as savior?

And thus begins the next critical question: What exactly does it mean to be Savior? If he was "saving Israel from their sins", did it have to do only with his sacrifice? 1 Peter apparently says that the Sacrifice is meant to give people a spirit to no longer sin. But if they still sin, then what? Obviously it's referring to the teachings.

So in a way, it could be both. However, not in the traditional interpretation. A very "works-based" meaning of obeying his teachings with the understanding that he is the Divine messenger as well as the Guilt offering. Without accepting him as one or the other, the entirety of the message is missed. And thus, 99% of "orthodox" Christian doctrine that doesn't involve obeying his teachings is missing the point.
 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
And thus begins the next critical question: What exactly does it mean to be Savior? If he was "saving Israel from their sins", did it have to do only with his sacrifice? 1 Peter apparently says that the Sacrifice is meant to give people a spirit to no longer sin. But if they still sin, then what? Obviously it's referring to the teachings.

So in a way, it could be both. However, not in the traditional interpretation. A very "works-based" meaning of obeying his teachings with the understanding that he is the Divine messenger as well as the Guilt offering. Without accepting him as one or the other, the entirety of the message is missed. And thus, 99% of "orthodox" Christian doctrine that doesn't involve obeying his teachings is missing the point.

This is great material for the Is the Gospel Simple? thread. The Gospel includes a lot more than the simple gospel, "Jesus the son of God was sacrificed for our sins, believe, you're saved."
 
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javajo

Well-Known Member
This is great material for the Is the Gospel Simple? thread. The Gospel includes a lot more than the simple gospel, "Jesus the son of God was sacrificed for our sins, believe, you're saved."
I think to believe in Jesus is more than just intellectual assent. I can be in a burning building and believe the net can save me and never jump and be saved. We must believe in, rely on, cling to Jesus and his finished work on the cross to be saved. We are saved because he paid the penalty of sin, which is death and we must believe that he actually did pay for our sins on the cross and accept that free gift or what is called the common salvation or simplicity of the gospel.

Once we have trusted Christ, we have made that one-time leap of faith, like leaping into the fireman's net, then our sins are paid for, washed away, forgotten, blotted out, etc AND we are given Christ's Righteousness, the righteousness of God without which no one may enter Heaven. THEN we are empowered by God living in us and through us as we yield to him, and we are able to keep a higher law of love which exceeds the law of the old covenant. That is my belief.
 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
I think to believe in Jesus is more than just intellectual assent. I can be in a burning building and believe the net can save me and never jump and be saved. We must believe in, rely on, cling to Jesus and his finished work on the cross to be saved. We are saved because he paid the penalty of sin, which is death and we must believe that he actually did pay for our sins on the cross and accept that free gift or what is called the common salvation or simplicity of the gospel.

Once we have trusted Christ, we have made that one-time leap of faith, like leaping into the fireman's net, then our sins are paid for, washed away, forgotten, blotted out, etc AND we are given Christ's Righteousness, the righteousness of God without which no one may enter Heaven. THEN we are empowered by God living in us and through us as we yield to him, and we are able to keep a higher law of love which exceeds the law of the old covenant. That is my belief.
My apologies, until I read this all the way through, I thought it was still Shermana. Welcome Javajo. This is nice prose, but would you address the central 3 questions of the OP?

I agree with your definition of believe.
 
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Shermana

Heretic
We must believe in, rely on, cling to Jesus and his finished work on the cross to be saved.
Does your definition involve actually obeying Jesus's teachings?

Usually if someone says "They were well received" it means people actually listened to what they had to say in its entirety.
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
My apologies, until I read this all the way through, I thought it was still Shermana. Welcome Javajo. This is nice prose, but would you address the central 3 questions of the OP?

I agree with your definition of believe.
1.Hi, I believe the Bible calls Jesus our Saviour in many passages and I believe Christ does the saving and the keeping.

2.I believe to receive Jesus is to believe in him: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. John 1:12

3.Yes, I believe they match, and that we are saved the moment we believe, forever: 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5
[/quote]

Does your definition involve actually obeying Jesus's teachings? Usually if someone says "They were well received" it means people actually listened to what they had to say in its entirety.
I believe Jesus came first to the House of Israel, so there is some discernment involved, which the NT helps us understand more fully. Jesus taught this:

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 6

This is the pattern, that the moment we believe, we are saved as in Acts at Pentecost, 3,000 were saved that day, the day of salvation, and the Phillipian jailer who asked , and as with Phillip and the Eunuch, who wanted to be baptized and was told that if he believed in Jesus he could be, so he believed and was saved right then, and etc. Also, we are saved but are told not to use the liberty we have to serve our flesh, but to obey God:

13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Gal. 5
 
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e.r.m.

Church of Christ
1.Hi, I believe the Bible calls Jesus our Saviour in many passages and I believe Christ does the saving and the keeping. 2.I believe to receive Jesus is to believe in him: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. John 1:12 3.Yes, I believe they match, and that we are saved the moment we believe, forever: 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5...

Hi Javajo,
Why would those who receive Him AND believed in His name be given the right/authority/power to BECOME...? Those words were not put there for no reason. They mean what they said. It does not allow for receiving Him 'as savior', because people who are already children of God don't need to be given the right to become children of God.

This is the pattern, that the moment we believe, we are saved as in Acts at Pentecost, 3,000 were saved that day

Acts at Pentecost doesn't say anything to the effect that the 3000 were saved when they believed.
They were instructed to repent and be baptized, in Jesus's name, for the forgiveness of their sins, even after they were cut to the heart.
 
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Shermana

Heretic
This is the pattern, that the moment we believe, we are saved as in Acts at Pentecost
That would completely clash with what 1 Peter says about salvation being something you "grow into". And what Paul says about "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling".

And the words "believe on" probably are more likely referring to obedience to his teachings. He says anyone who "believes on him" will be able to do works greater than him, i.e. miracles. So unless you're doing miracles and raising the dead like Peter did, you probably don't "believe on him" as the author intended it to be understood.

I do find it interesting how most "Christians" and their Theologies seem to not include the idea of actually obeying anything he actually taught.
 
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