• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The gospel according to Jim

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
One point I want to make is that when John came baptizing, the idea of purification by total immersion in water, in preparation for participation in a holy event, was already well known. Before John, the event was gathering in the Temple or at a festival. With John, the event was entering into the kingdom of heaven.

Jewish Rites of Purification

From your link.....

"By the time of Christ, ceremonial cleanliness by water had become institutionalized into a purity ritual involving full immersion in a mikveh (or miqveh), a “collection of water.”

Ancient-Mikveh.jpg


Mikveh purification was required of all Jews before they could enter the Temple or participate in major festivals. Hundreds of thousands of pilgrims converged on Jerusalem for Passover and other major feasts. One hundred mikvehs, attesting to the need for water purification before entering into Temple rites, have been found by Hebrew University’s Benjamin Mazar around the wall adjacent to Herod’s Temple. Mikvehs, resembling large bathtubs or small garden ponds, have been found in Jericho and elsewhere in Israel.

The ancient Jews tried to make sure their family’s mikveh was connected to a source of “living water” like a spring or well, but that was not always possible. Tap water could not be used as the primary source of water for the mikveh, but the rabbis decided you could “top off” the mikveh to a suitable level with a little tap water. The rule of thumb was that the mikveh should be big enough to hold 40 seahs of water. When asked how much volume a seah was, the rabbis said it was enough to fit 144 eggs.

If there were less than 40 seahs of water (enough to hold 5,760 eggs) in a mikveh, you could not add even 3-4 more pints of water from an unnatural source because that would render the mikveh unfit for use. It would have to be drained and refilled. A simple ritual had been turned into a legalistic nightmare prefiguring the disputes of the Christians over methods of baptism.

It has been a temptation in all religions to replace the ritual for the reality it was meant to reflect."


By the time of Christ's entry into the world as Messiah, (at his baptism) the Jews had strayed from the spirit of the law in many ways whilst making a pretense of keeping it....only 'better'. Regardless of accepted Jewish practice in the day, John is accredited with performing the first "baptism" which was in symbol of repentance against breaking the Mosaic Law Covenant. This did not guarantee that the person would accept Christ, but it was more conducive to becoming a disciple if you already acknowledged your sins and the need to accept the perpetual sacrifice of Jesus on your behalf.

The full immersion of Christian baptism has little to do with washing sins away...it is Jesus blood that does the spiritual cleansing.

1 John 1:7...
"However, if we are walking in the light as he himself is in the light, we do have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin."

The Apostle Peter compares Christian baptism to Noah's ark. That vessel carried 8 souls through the end of that wicked system of things and on into a cleansed new start.

1 Peter 3:18-22....
"For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.

21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, is also now saving you (not by the removing of the filth of the flesh, but by the request to God for a good conscience), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 22 He is at God’s right hand, for he went to heaven, and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him."


The ark, built from the ground up with their own hands, was what saved that family, so strict obedience to God's instructions was required, along with a firm resolve to see the project through to the end. The "vessel" we build today is our own personal relationship with the God of Jesus, with him guiding the whole construction, clearly outlined in God's word.

Forgiveness of our sins gives us a clean conscience before our God as we again face a situation similar to "the days of Noah" (Matthew 24:37-39)

This is how I see it.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Baptism with physical water is not a requirement for being a true follower of Jesus, and not a commandment from Him or from God. What it is, is one of the excuses, and part of the camouflage, for drawing imaginary lines between people, to serve the factional interests of religious leaders and their followers.
 
Last edited:

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Baptism with physical water is not a requirement for being a true follower of Jesus, and not a commandment from Him or from God. What it is, is one of the excuses, and part of the camouflage, for drawing imaginary lines between people, to serve the factional interests of religious leaders and their followers.

Who told you that?

Matthew 28:19-20......Jesus own command....

"Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

It is most definitely a requirement for Jesus' disciples and commanded by him. It was full immersion baptism signifying a symbolic 'death and resurrection' of the individual indicating and publicly demonstrating their own choice to become a follower of Jesus Christ....it means obedience to all of his teachings. They are the only ones approved by God. There is no room for men claiming to be Jesus returned, only to die a second time. (Matthew 24:4-5) Jesus died "once for all time". (1 Peter 3:18) When he was to return, it was to bring Kingdom rule to this earth, and for God's "will to be done on earth as it is in heaven".....there would not be just a continuation of the world's troubles. Obviously, Jesus has not established his kingdom rule on earth just yet.

There can be no unification of people of all faiths because all these people worship different gods, and have different beliefs. They do not worship the God of Jesus Christ whom he called "the only true God". (John 17:3)

Jesus also said that Jehovah "alone" was to be worshipped. (Luke 4:8; Exodus 20:3; Deuteronomy 10:20) There is no sanction for worship outside of what the Bible endorses. God does not give humanity mixed messages and prophets who promote different forms of worship. Nor was there ever a "wish-washy" form of "do it yourself" worship, as in "believe whatever you wish". The Bible says that there is only one way to worship the true God. All roads do not lead to 'Rome'. Only one road leads to life and it's a difficult path....the easy one is a dead end. (Matthew 7:13-14)

It's nice to want to believe that everyone is acceptable to God, regardless of their choice of worship, but God's word says that we all have to choose to worship Jehovah as he prescribes. I don't believe we have the kind of choices that Baha'i promotes. But you are free to believe as you wish.
 
Top