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No, you didn't. You used an incredibly dishonest argument. That is not a refutation. If you want to rely upon refraction you need to show how in your model refraction can cause the observed refutation. A picture of a straw in a glass does not cut it.
Unfortunately he has me on ignore. Refraction can bend light. But his photo of a straw in a glass only acknowledges that fact. He needs to show how refraction could do this in his model. All he did was to post a picture and wave his hands that is not a refutation. In the globe model we can explain why refraction is not an issue at higher angles. He has to be able to explain how refraction is an issue in his model. That would be a refutation.I had that discussion with someone abovebut that is correct, you would need three holes from what I understood.
But if one extra hole is all that is needed for the flat earth model to fall apart it is not really all that sound and doesn't change the original issue. Which is that all experiments and observations have to support a flat earth otherwise it is not valid.
We did that the first time I replied to you.Fantastic, we both agree that the Bible is a flat earth book! COMMON GROUND ACHIEVED
"Egyptian astronomy began in prehistoric times, in the Predynastic Period. In the 5th millennium BCE, the stone circles at Nabta Playa may have made use of astronomical alignments. By the time the historical Dynastic Period began in the 3rd millennium BCE, the 365 day period of the Egyptian calendar was already in use, and the observation of stars was important in determining the annual flooding of the Nile." - Egyptian astronomy - Wikipedia
A couple of points. He was talking about evidence of a belief in a spherical Earth and none of your sources supported such a belief. Second no one is accusing the ancients of being idiots. Knowledge is accumulative. We are always adding on to the knowledge from the post. The greatest scientists in history have acknowledged this Newton was well known for this quote:"Egyptian astronomy began in prehistoric times, in the Predynastic Period. In the 5th millennium BCE, the stone circles at Nabta Playa may have made use of astronomical alignments. By the time the historical Dynastic Period began in the 3rd millennium BCE, the 365 day period of the Egyptian calendar was already in use, and the observation of stars was important in determining the annual flooding of the Nile." - Egyptian astronomy - Wikipedia
"Astronomy in China has a long history stretching from the Shang dynasty, being refined over a period of more than 3,000 years. The ancient Chinese people have identified stars from 1300 BCE, as Chinese star names later categorized in the twenty-eight mansions have been found on oracle bones unearthed at Anyang, dating back to the mid-Shang dynasty. The core of the "mansion" (宿 xiù) system also took shape around this period, by the time of King Wu Ding (1250–1192 BCE)" Chinese Astronomy - Wikipedia
"A 32,500-year-old carved ivory mammoth tusk could contain the oldest known star chart (resembling the constellation Orion)." History of astronomy - Wikipedia
I highlighted in red where uncertainty is left. While most of your accusation of our ancestors' lack of knowledge/understanding is accurate, it contains inaccuracies as well.
Personally, I wouldn't presume how little or how much someone understands something without substantial evidence, of which most has not and could not have survived this long. It's come to our understanding that the Neanderthal had larger brains than ours and were likely more intelligent and socially adept. I'm just saying that our understanding of their understanding, has changed... and this underestimation of other or overestimation of self isn't an uncommon error.
For centuries (if not still today) we taught students using orreries or images such as the following:
View attachment 79995View attachment 79997
Does this mean we actually believe the solar system look like the simplified models?
We teach/taught students that molecules and atoms are:
View attachment 79998View attachment 79999
We don't lack understanding of these structures even though these models are inaccurate to the actual reality. However, our descendants could very well come to such a conclusion, if there were limited surviving archeological evidence to our civilization after we destroy it.
I'm not so certain our ancestors lacked understanding of much of the natural world they inhabited. I think credit is deserved where credit is due, and all of our modern sciences are birthed from religious literature and world views. Without those idiots, we couldn't be the idiots we are today.
The sins of excessive compression and omitted doubts and possibilities are unfortunately consequences of trying to be brief. I naturally regret any offense to the informed reader."Egyptian astronomy began in prehistoric times, in the Predynastic Period. In the 5th millennium BCE, the stone circles at Nabta Playa may have made use of astronomical alignments. By the time the historical Dynastic Period began in the 3rd millennium BCE, the 365 day period of the Egyptian calendar was already in use, and the observation of stars was important in determining the annual flooding of the Nile." - Egyptian astronomy - Wikipedia
"Astronomy in China has a long history stretching from the Shang dynasty, being refined over a period of more than 3,000 years. The ancient Chinese people have identified stars from 1300 BCE, as Chinese star names later categorized in the twenty-eight mansions have been found on oracle bones unearthed at Anyang, dating back to the mid-Shang dynasty. The core of the "mansion" (宿 xiù) system also took shape around this period, by the time of King Wu Ding (1250–1192 BCE)" Chinese Astronomy - Wikipedia
"A 32,500-year-old carved ivory mammoth tusk could contain the oldest known star chart (resembling the constellation Orion)." History of astronomy - Wikipedia
I highlighted in red where uncertainty is left. While most of your accusation of our ancestors' lack of knowledge/understanding is accurate, it contains inaccuracies as well.
Personally, I wouldn't presume how little or how much someone understands something without substantial evidence, of which most has not and could not have survived this long. It's come to our understanding that the Neanderthal had larger brains than ours and were likely more intelligent and socially adept. I'm just saying that our understanding of their understanding, has changed... and this underestimation of other or overestimation of self isn't an uncommon error.
For centuries (if not still today) we taught students using orreries or images such as the following:
View attachment 79995View attachment 79997
Does this mean we actually believe the solar system look like the simplified models?
We teach/taught students that molecules and atoms are:
View attachment 79998View attachment 79999
We don't lack understanding of these structures even though these models are inaccurate to the actual reality. However, our descendants could very well come to such a conclusion, if there were limited surviving archeological evidence to our civilization after we destroy it.
I'm not so certain our ancestors lacked understanding of much of the natural world they inhabited. I think credit is deserved where credit is due, and all of our modern sciences are birthed from religious literature and world views. Without those idiots, we couldn't be the idiots we are today.
I don’t think there are actually any references to a flat earth in the Bible. I’ve always wondered if the earth is really flat, as you believe, where is the edge? Why has no one seen the edge, gone over or beyond the edge, or documented it? With the technology available now there certainly should be more images and information on this subject.
answersingenesis.org
First, I must clarify, I am not speaking towards the knowledge of the majority of the population. Rather my focus is on those of the highest rungs of society.
Do you agree that a circle is a flat 2D shape?
For repeated rule 4 violations - posting off topic comments - you have been added to the ignore list.
For repeated rule 4 violations - posting off topic comments - you have been added to the ignore list.
Kyle, you are not defining how you use the word "proof". And you are not a mod.
This guy... Rofl.
Yes, when one makes the error of reading the Bible very literally it does describe the Earth as flat. But when one does that then one also claims that Jesus was born in both roughly 4 BCE and 6 CE.
As I said, the cosmology of the bible is that of Babylon, and is set out in the bible's words (RSV translation) on that link. Had I found any contradiction of them I would have included that too. The ideas are not noticeably different from Genesis to Revelation.
When someone refutes him he does put people on them on ignore. And he usually tells them, Except in my case. I refuted him elsewhere (I did not need to be so polite there) I saw his claim that he was putting you on ignore so you probably are.
Are these tantrums on-topic? If not, perhaps you should consider placing yourself on ignore.