The global flood: The sorting of fossils and sediments

[outhouse]

I think if the river flooded the land as far as the eye could see they would see that as a supernatural event, which they would pass on orally. It is just a thought. But if you go everywhere on foot, you might not know that it was just your area.

well that is exactly what happened

the valley the Euphrates flooded was very flat and the flood of 2900BCE left 3 flood stories from the sumerian culture.

The same semetic people would have migrated from when the sumerian civilization collapsed, bringing these legends with them. Its also why much of noahs flood is word for word straight from the previous versions.

You have to remember, ancient hebrews were a new people with no real history of themselves, they had to create their religion as fast as the their new cultures population exploded which was in a few hundred years and that is exactly what we see.

Created history using influences from the only history these semeitc speaking people had, others claiming it as their own. with that said they did add their flare and flavor to the previous legends

 

[shawn001]

Hi shawn001
I've learnt not to try and have rational conversations with crazy people. Therefore I don't even try to "debate" creationists on forums such as these; I just occasionally point out when they don't tell the truth (That's every post they make!).

A "debate" with creationists basically goes like this:
Creationist statement 1: List of untrue statements.
Sane person: Wants to show exactly where the lies are. Starts with lie in statement number 1 on creationist list.
Creationist statement 2: Ignores the lies pointed out. Puts forward another list of untrue statements.
Sane person: Wants to show exactly where the lies are. Repeats indicating the first lie in statement number 1 on the first creationist list.
Creationist statement 3: Starts presenting list 1 again, with all the lies still in place.

From Creationist Lies That Never Die : Dispatches from the Creation Wars



It's hard to have a rational conversation with someone who believes that he or she is going to burn for all eternity the moment he or she even acknowledges facts and reality.

Therefore, do carry on if you have the patience to keep on looking for references and posting them here; lots of people (like me) learn a lot. I just don't have the patience to debunk the same 'arguments' from creationists time after time. I think they are just too stupid to even talk to (that's my theory, but remember, it's just a theory).:angel2:

Sorry, I'm way off topic. I like the references. I loved that Dino Death Pit and that old flower too!

I do understand and glad you like the links and information.

 

[shawn001]

Maybe this creationist website is where Javajo got that from:



Simply put, the Creation Scientist says the Geological strata we see in the ground was all laid down at about the same time as part of the natural layering that takes place after massive flooding and mudslides, or in other words, after Noah's flood about 4500 years ago. Evolutionary scientists say the layers in the ground were the various surfaces of the Earth over the last 500 million years. Remember, they need that to be true because they need 100's of millions of years for Darwin's Theory of Evolution. So let's examine the evidence to see which theory makes sense.
In the ground, right now are literally thousands of “polystrate” fossils. These are fossils that are standing upright, vertically punching through many (poly) of the layers (strate or strata) in the ground. In other words, picture a fossilized tree standing upright, right in the middle of the Geologic Column going up through “millions of years” of several layers. If the evolutionists are right, that would mean the bottom of that tree would be in layers of the ground millions of years older that the top of the tree. How logical is that? There are literally thousands of these polystrate trees, right now, in the ground all over the Earth. I can assure you, you'll never see their photos in your school Geology books because evolutionists don't want you to know about them. What's also interesting is that the majority of these fossilized trees do not have branches or roots. They literally look like telephone poles. So how did they get there?

In 1980 when Mt. St. Helens erupted, we noticed a fascinating phenomenon. The force of the eruption blasted the forests in the area with such power that it broke the trees off at the base of the ground, leaving the roots underground and stripped the branches from the trunks leaving the hillsides littered with thousands of, what appeared to be “telephone poles”. No branches, no roots. We see that this is common when when volcanoes erupt near forests and leave thousands of branchless, rootless trees littering the hillsides. Near Mt. St. Helens, thousands of these “telephone pole” trees rolled into nearby Spirit Lake creating massive log mats. To see the photos, it just looks like thousands of telephone poles floating in the water. As the trees became waterlogged, they sank, but they didn't sink horizontally. It was observed that as they got more waterlogged, they eventually turned upright, floating vertically until finally they sank to the bottom, punching their way down into the muddy bottom. Additional mudslides into the lake covered them up even more. This is not theory, this is what was actually observed."

I saw St helens go off and worked for the forest service as a firefighter and was almost sent up there.

a video you won't see on any YEC websites.


A look at the creation of the Mount St. Helens volcano in Washington state; its history of violent eruptions and the evidence another massive eruption could occur again in the near future.


[youtube]NePyGfaRnFI[/youtube]
Mt. St. Helens S02E10 - How the Earth Was Made - History Channel - YouTube

 

[shawn001]

You know my relative had a park named after him John Boyd Thacher State Park NY.

Where

Helderberg Escarpment at the overlook on the north side of NY Route 157. Here, there are spectacular views northeast into Vermont. This ridge is made up of a core of limestone in which were found many fossils during the early days of geology in the 1800s. These fossils are known worldwide for their sequence from the Silurian to the Devonian eras. Early studies in this area helped lay the foundations for modern paleontology and geology.

33. East Berne to John Boyd Thacher State Park | New York-New Jersey Trail Conference

John Boyd Thacher State Park is perched above Altamont on the Helderberg Escarpment, one of the richest fossil-bearing formations in the world.


The park has tells us a lot about New yorks history, in fact, it brings us back in time hundreds of millions of years ago. Here you can see the Schnectady beds, the Roundout "waterlime" or dolostone, the upper and lower manlius, and much much more!

Geology
The Helderberg Plateau comprises mainly a series of limestones of early Devonian age and is one of the most fossiliferous regions in the United States. The plateau also has rocks of the Upper Silurian and Upper and Middle Ordovician ages resting below the Devonian rocks


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thacher_Park


A lot of this creation verses evolution was settled back in the early 1900's as they studied how Niagra falls formed and the geology of New England and the fossils along with other fossils around the world they didn't know at the time were related and connected by plate tectonics and the land masses moving.

NY use to be in the center of one a supercontinent. The MTs as high as Everest, but cut done by the ice age glaciers. Which is why the east coast doesn't have any high peaks.

 

[painted wolf]

You know my relative had a park named after him John Boyd Thacher State Park NY.

Where

Helderberg Escarpment at the overlook on the north side of NY Route 157. Here, there are spectacular views northeast into Vermont. This ridge is made up of a core of limestone in which were found many fossils during the early days of geology in the 1800s. These fossils are known worldwide for their sequence from the Silurian to the Devonian eras. Early studies in this area helped lay the foundations for modern paleontology and geology.

33. East Berne to John Boyd Thacher State Park | New York-New Jersey Trail Conference

John Boyd Thacher State Park is perched above Altamont on the Helderberg Escarpment, one of the richest fossil-bearing formations in the world.


The park has tells us a lot about New yorks history, in fact, it brings us back in time hundreds of millions of years ago. Here you can see the Schnectady beds, the Roundout "waterlime" or dolostone, the upper and lower manlius, and much much more!

Geology
The Helderberg Plateau comprises mainly a series of limestones of early Devonian age and is one of the most fossiliferous regions in the United States. The plateau also has rocks of the Upper Silurian and Upper and Middle Ordovician ages resting below the Devonian rocks


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thacher_Park


A lot of this creation verses evolution was settled back in the early 1900's as they studied how Niagra falls formed and the geology of New England and the fossils along with other fossils around the world they didn't know at the time were related and connected by plate tectonics and the land masses moving.

NY use to be in the center of one a supercontinent. The MTs as high as Everest, but cut done by the ice age glaciers. Which is why the east coast doesn't have any high peaks.

We may not have tall... but we have mighty! Mt. Washington (Agiocochook) FTW!
More deadly than mountains twice it's size!
It's been behaving itself lately, the last death was in 2009 due to a fall at Tuckerman's Ravine.

wa:do

 

[Krok]

Maybe this creationsist website is where Javajo got that from:
Top Ten Proofs for a Young Earth - Sample

Hi Agnostic75
I do know about other creationist websites claiming the same.

That's why I added:

And, creationists claiming that geologists say this, don't count. We need a reference where an actual geologist has ever claimed this. Without such a reference we would know that you prefer not to tell the truth.

From the creationist reference you provided:

If the evolutionists are right, that would mean the bottom of that tree would be in layers of the ground millions of years older that the top of the tree. How logical is that?

The author shows utterly deceitful and unsavory behaviour in this sentence.

First he lies. No geologist has ever claimed that the bottom layers would be millions of years older than the top layer of a tree fossil. That's why I asked for a reference where any geologist has ever claimed this.

Secondly, the author set up a straw man. No sane person would ever claim something like the bottom layers would be millions of years older than the top layers. That's why I asked for a reference where any geologist has ever claimed this.

Thirdly, he is purposfully deceitful about "evolutionists" saying anything about the rock "layers". In science, evolutionists study evolutionary biology. Geologists study rocks. Two completely different things.

Maybe it's because he has no scientific training at all, but thinks and pretends that he knows everything? Why does a person like Javajo repeat dishonest statements (actually outright lies)?

 

[Krok]

You know my relative had a park named after him John Boyd Thacher State Park NY.

Thanks for those references.

It reminds me of the area where I spent a large chunk of my childhood, a town called Strand, reference Strand, Western Cape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia in the Helderberg Basin . Possibly one of the most beautiful areas on the face of the earth.

Then a short article on the geology: Helderberg Nature Reserve » Geology