The gift of tongues

[yuvgotmel]

I'm surprised Yuvgotmel hasn't posted on this thread.

I'm surprised that I didn't see this thread until today. At any rate, I have held off posting much of anything due to overall disgruntlement with the forums/subjects/etc.

But you are right... This topic is right up my alley. And since we last spoke on this issue, in the chat room, I have done much more work. Recently, I purchased some lecture series by some of the world's top linguists; and I have been researching and reading lots and lots.

Here are three short excerpts and a sneak-peak of my recent work:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There is a universal language encoded in our consciousness. The universal language lies beneath the surface of “comprehensive words,” which are values placed on the sounds produced from the human vocal cords and limited to regions, cultures, religions, etc. The human languages—made up “comprehensive words”—have caused a separation in the collective understanding, even to the point of separating humans from their ancestral origins and natural environment.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When re-discovered and with the ability to use it properly, matter could be manipulated willfully through vibrational frequencies. Such a fundamental frequency requires something along the order of a singularity; and the memory gates of our collective unconscious could be opened by way of recognition of the obvious pattern(s). Conceivably, it would make computing extremely fast; and there is a possibility that it would also eliminate the need for a written language.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Like a seal being broken, the opening of the mouth is an important evolutionary and spiritual step in the advancement of humans. Instead of memorizing vast amounts of seemingly disjointed trivia, a particular frequency could access libraries of information—even opening up the knowledge of lost history and much more. Translation and/or calculation of lengthy linear words and/or numbers would, theoretically, be simplified through a more focused point of information packets. Much like a base system in mathematics, the universal language disseminates large volumes of data through simplified frequencies (which should be available through human vocal cords). The intentional use of a universal language has the ability open the storehouse of information of our existence through the understanding of a few key symbols.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Was such a language ever known to mankind before?[/FONT]

​

TOWER OF BABEL & THE SEAL ON THE MOUTH:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Babylonian accounts, as well the story of the Tower of Babel from Genesis (in the Bible), tell of a time when a universal language was common among all people. In the Biblical account, the gods came down and confused the tongues of men on earth (Genesis 11:1~9). And written in Babylonian texts, there is an account of a universal language and a tale concerning Enki, the chief god of the city of Eridu, confusing the languages and put “contention” into the speech.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In occult teachings, a seal acts as a protection or a curse. Just like breaking a seal on an envelope or scroll, when the mouth is opened, it allows for information-flow. The act of breaking or opening a seal is like opening a doorway, which breaks the protection or the curse that was placed on the entrance.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For an analogy, a seal could be viewed like a lock on a gate. Once the lock (or protection/curse) is released, everything contained inside that gate, becomes available. And the word Babel, itself, alludes that it is such a gate. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“Babel’s a city in Babylon, right?”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“It was a legendary city,” the Librarian says. “Babel is a Biblical term for Babylon. The word is Semitic; Bab means gate and El means God, so Babel means ‘Gate of God.’ But it is probably also somewhat onomatopoeic, imitating someone who speaks in an incomprehensible tongue. The Bible is full of puns.”[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“Snow Crash” by Neal Stephenson, Publisher: Bantam Dell, New York, NY, paperback reissue Sept. 2003[/FONT]

​

ELEMENT OF FIRE:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Speech, in the Bible and other religious beliefs, is equated with the element of fire. Of course, then it should be no mystery why on the “Day of Pentecost,” as described in the New Testament, the people were said to have “tongues of fire” appear over their heads, and more interestingly, the people were speaking in an unknown tongue whereby everyone who listened to them could hear the speakers perfectly in each of their intelligible languages (Acts 2:1~15).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Glossolalia is the practice some Christians call “speaking in tongues.” Shamans and other religious people from various beliefs and tribes around the world also call it “speaking in the spirit” or “the spirit(s) speaking through them.” Glossolalia is not limited only to certain sects of Christianity. The practice of glossolalia predates Christianity, and there is evidence of it in inscriptions on the pyramid walls in Egypt.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There is a possibility that the practice of glossolalia may be related to the universal language. The relation does not mean that the universal language is the equivalent of glossolalia, but rather the practice may denote that there was knowledge of a universal language and an ability to use it effectively among ancient peoples. Yet, the practice of glossolalia nowadays may have lost its meaning long ago, merely being handed-down in ritual only without understanding. [/FONT]​

***********************
What we might be dealing with moreover though is a light/sound frequency that is capable of manipulating matter if proper tapped into.

 

[gmelrod]

When I think of such issues as speaking in tounges and visions and other mystical elements of faith I am reminded of the work of the phiosopher Hume. To paraphrase (since I don't have the time to dig through and find the actual words) "You are more likely to be schizophrenic then to be talking to God" I think that speaking in toungs is in itself a relativly harmless practice. In the bible speaking in tounges was speaking in "other" tounges

1When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. (Acts 2:1-5 NIV)

I think that if speaking in tongues helps you to get closer to God and is a reassurance of faith then there is little harm in it. However there is risk. I have talked to people who went home and practiced speaking in tounges so they could better participate in church. In adition there are a number of neurological disorders that effect the language center of the brain. In medicine there have been many documented cases of people feeling sympathtic effects even without a malady. Take for instance psychosomatic cures. When drug testing is done a section of the people in the study are givin a placebo, a pill that looks like the edicine but has no active ingrediant. Despite this some people will report an aliviation of their symptoms. The point I am trying to make is that the mind has enoumouse power over the body and we do not fully understand it. Before we automaticly assign a divine cause for somthing we should recognize other possibilities.

To sum up I think that if you can't speak in tounges it does not mean you are not special and loved by God. If you can then it does not mean you are blessed by God. You might have a brain tumor. And lastly if you have to practice then you are just muttering nonsence. Sincere prayer should be simple understandable to ourselves and have a clear meaning. If you don't know what you are saying then you are not saying anything.

 

[yuvgotmel]

Some linguists have studied Glossolalia hoping to find what the Babylonian and Biblical accounts claim to be a universal language as spoken of in the excerpts below:

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]BIBLICAL ACCOUNT from Genesis Chapter 11:[/FONT]

1. [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] The entire earth had one languagewith uniform words.[/FONT]
2. [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] When the people migrated from the east, they found a valley in the land of Shinar, and they settled there.[/FONT]
3. [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] They said to one another, “Come, let us mold bricks and fire them.” They then had bricks to use as stone, and asphalt for mortar.[/FONT]
4. [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]They said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top shall reach the sky. Let us make ourselves a name, so that we will not be scattered all over the face of the earth.”[/FONT]
5. [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] God descended* to see the city and the tower that the sons of man had built.[/FONT]
6. [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]God said, “They are a single people, all having one language, and this is the first thing they do! Now nothing they plan to do will be unattainable for them![/FONT]
7. [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Come, let us* descend and confuse their speech, so that one person will not understand another’s speech.”[/FONT]
8. [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] From that place, God scattered them all over the face of the earth, and they stopped building the city.[/FONT]
9. [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]He named it Babel, because this was the place where God confused the world’s language.It was from there that God dispersed humanity over all the face of the earth. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Footnotes.
11:15 descended. An anthropomorphism denoting special attention, especially for the purpose of punishing the wicked (Moreh Nevukhim 1:10)
11:16 us. God was speaking to the angels, or to the forces of creation (Rashi; Ibn Ezra).[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“The Living Torah: A New Translation Based on Traditional Jewish Sources”
by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan[/FONT]
​

*********************************************************************

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]BABYLONIAN ACCOUNT:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Once upon a time, there was no snake, there was no scorpion,
There was no hyena, there was no lion,
There was no wild dog, no wolf,
There was no fear, no terror,
Man had no rival. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In those days, the land Shubur-Hamazi,
Harmony-tongued Sumer, the great land of the me of princeship,
Uri, the land having all that is appropriate,
The land Martu, resting in security,
The whole universe, the people well cared for,
To Enlil in one tongue gave speech. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Then the lord defiant, the prince defiant, the king defiant,
Enki, the lord of abundance, whose commands are trustworthy,
The lord of wisdom, who scans the land,
The leader of the gods,
The lord of Eridu, endowed with wisdom,
Changed the speech in their mouths, put contention into it,
Into the speech of man that had been one.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]“Myths of Enki, the Crafty God”
by Samuel Noah Kramer and John R Maier, Publisher: New York : Oxford University Press, 1989.[/FONT]
​

 

[yuvgotmel]

One more comment on the matter, even though this particular subject is HUGE.. and gets into many things. It may be the most important evolutionary and spiritual step to open up the doors for humanity that there ever has been seen in modern times.

When I first mentioned a “Universal Language,” (on these boards in another thread) I meant it literally as “Universal” not just Planet Earthsville. Secondly, I was not speaking of a particular known language but rather tones/sounds that transcend all human languages, whereby Person A can be speaking English to Person B who speaks Chinese and both can fully understand each other without the need for an interpreter. I’m literally speaking of a basic numeric language that—I believe—is already encoded in our consciousness. Furthermore, it is truly a “Universal Language” in that—I believe—in accessing it can also allow humans to communicate with vegetation, rocks, animals and so on, because it will use vibrations through the vocal cords with full clarity of intent/communication.

ADDITION: By the way, I also believe that this language (which, I believe is already encoded in the consciousness) is NOT a written language. Furthermore, I do not believe there will be any need for written communication when the "Universal Language" is opened up because, in doing so, it will also open up the storehouse of all collective memory. Therefore, there will be no need for written records.
​

 

[gingernater]

so if we all have this 1 hidden laungaunge why does the bible say that no man understands someone who speaks in toungs. For the bible says its the persons spirit uttering to god. And why wasnt anyone speaking it before the day of pentecost where the spirit of god fell.

 

[gmelrod]

Can you please post a supporting verse?

 

[yuvgotmel]

so if we all have this 1 hidden laungaunge why does the bible say that no man understands someone who speaks in toungs. For the bible says its the persons spirit uttering to god. And why wasnt anyone speaking it before the day of pentecost where the spirit of god fell.

That's a false claim because glossolalia has been recorded all over the world in most, if not all, ancient beliefs. Some of the inscriptions on the Egyptian pyramids are thought to be the onomatopoeia of the sounds produced during the practice of glossolalia. Some Gnostic texts also have similar scripts of the onomatopoeia of the practice of glossolalia.

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/199606/01_losurem_signswonders/

Speaking in tongues, or glossolalia as scientists call it, is an ancient practice found around the world in many different cultures. Trobriand Islanders in the South Pacific, Yanomamo Indians of Amazonia, reindeer hunting Chukchi of Siberia, and many other groups use glossolalia in religious rituals. In the United States, a recent poll found seven percent of Americans have spoken in tongues. Speaking in tongues is the hallmark of Pentecostalism, the fastest growing religious movement on earth. Tongue speaking has spread into mainstream denominations such as the Lutheran, Catholic, and Episcopal churches, where tongue speaking believers are known as Charismatics. And even Minnesota, home of the reserved and taciturn Norwegian, has a thriving but little-known subculture of tongue speakers.

​

As far as comprehension of the universal language, I would suggest a study in linguistics. And to rebut your statement that no man can understand another that is speaking in tongues... that is also false, because in the New Testament, it says that the people were capable of hearing the apostles speak...in a comprehensive language.

Refer to my last post on this for more information.

Thanx

 

[yuvgotmel]

Can you please post a supporting verse?

I have posted verses and compilation of several things. Is it imperative that it be written in the Bible before you will believe it?

Here are a couple of verses that refute one of the statements you made in a previous post:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Genesis 11:1: “The entire world had one language with uniform words.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Acts 2:5~11: “Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. Utterly amazed, they asked: ‘Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!’…”[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] I’m speaking of AN ACTUAL UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE….not mumbo jumbo gibberish.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1 Corinthians 14:9: “Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.”[/FONT]
​

 

[yuvgotmel]

http://www.meta-religion.com/Linguistics/Glossolalia/glossolalia_today.htm

If the gift of tongues was not ecstatic utterances and if the gift of tongues ceased shortly after the death of the Apostles, then how do we account for the phenomenon of tongues in the form of ecstatic utterances today? It is interesting to note that glossolalia is not a phenomenon confined to Christianity. Pagan religions throughout the world are frenzied with tongues. This is reflected in an article in the Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation entitled “An Ethnological Study of Glossolalia” by George J. Jennings, March 1968. Jennings observes that glossolalia is practiced amoung the following non-Christian religions of the world; the Peyote cult among the North American Indians, the Haida Indians of the Pacific Northwest, Shamans in the Sudan, the Shango cult of the West Coast of Africa, the Shago cult in Trinidad, the Voodoo cult in Haiti, the Aborigines of South American and Australia, the aboriginal peoples of the subarctic regions of North America and Asia, the Shamans in Greenland, the Dyaks of Borneo, the Zor cult of Ethiopia, the Siberian shamans, the Chaco Indians of South America, the Curanderos of the Andes, the Kinka in the African Sudan, the Thonga shamans of Africa, and the Tibetan monks. Certainly we wouldn't attribute Glossolalia in these heathen religions to the work of the holy Spirit.
​

 

[gingernater]

So what your saying is that im speaking a ancient launguage. Im thinking not. Yes there was 1 common laungauge for most ancient civilisation speak of similar stories of the tower of babel. however the speaking in tounges and this is differnt. At the day of pentecost when the spirit of god fell they were speaking in another launguage of a differnt race. When it fist got spoken they were galileans and the crowd heared them in their own native laungauge. How do you explain that. They never any other launguage. And another question. How come everyone who speaks in tounges, speaks in a differnt tounge from everyone else?

 

[yuvgotmel]

So what your saying is that im speaking a ancient launguage. Im thinking not. Yes there was 1 common laungauge for most ancient civilisation speak of similar stories of the tower of babel. however the speaking in tounges and this is differnt. At the day of pentecost when the spirit of god fell they were speaking in another launguage of a differnt race. When it fist got spoken they were galileans and the crowd heared them in their own native laungauge. How do you explain that. They never any other launguage. And another question. How come everyone who speaks in tounges, speaks in a differnt tounge from everyone else?

Technically...linguists have searched but have NOT found a "mother tongue." The universal language that I'm speaking of, and which most likely relates to what I have shown above, is not a known human tongue (at this time). Even though it may or may not be encoded in our "consciousness"(?), it is not spoken (as a known language). I believe that each apostle was speaking to all groups at one time. Every person in the surrounding area, earshot of each apostle, could hear everything that he was saying.

I also believe that the practice of glossolalia, as seen in many Pentecostals, is NOT what was spoken of in the New Testament.

 

[gingernater]

Technically...linguists have searched but have NOT found a "mother tongue." The universal language that I'm speaking of, and which most likely relates to what I have shown above, is not a known human tongue (at this time). Even though it may or may not be encoded in our "consciousness"(?), it is not spoken (as a known language). I believe that each apostle was speaking to all groups at one time. Every person in the surrounding area, earshot of each apostle, could hear everything that he was saying.

I also believe that the practice of glossolalia, as seen in many Pentecostals, is NOT what was spoken of in the New Testament.

Then what do you think was being spoken by the apostiles in the new terstermint?.

 

[yuvgotmel]

Then what do you think was being spoken by the apostiles in the new terstermint?.

I've been explaining that--at least to the best of my ability--in the posts above....

 

[gingernater]

I've been explaining that--at least to the best of my ability--in the posts above....

it still doesnt make scense to me when i read that

 

[des]

Rereading your post, I see we are not talking at all about the same thing. But you had me going for awhile anyway.
So I'll keep what I have here anyway.

I have a passing familiarity with linguistics. I didn't really study it in school much though. So anyway what I know of what you said, or maybe-- as I am not sure I do understand, is this: That the elements or base of language is the same across languages, so that for instance, all babies know and produce all sounds present in all known (or once known) languages, for instance even click languages or others that might be impossible to speak once the time of being able to learn language has passed (age 5 or so). Another thing is that syntax, while it varies in languages, develops in infants more or less the same. They don't just randomly play with language, but in a specific way. So that Chinese and English and Swedish and whatever other babies all have the same basic syntax at a certain level. So the basis of language is all the same. All babies with normal development learn language (unlike math or reading or some other kinds of skills). There is no ineffective or bad or primitive language. Stone age peoples have as complex and rich language (perhaps not as many words) as technologically advanced people. This is unique of all abilities, and indicates a deeper level of language.

I am personally dubious of what glossolalia has to do with language, even this base language ability (I think sometimes termed deep language). After all, I believe that no one has claimed that this deep language has a particularly sound. Nor does anyone think that this particular deep language was the "spoken language" ever, even when at some point there may have been one tongue (certainly not as late as anyone in the Hebrew Bible would have known of, this is clearly a myth of language-- in my term myth, I don't mean LIE, I mean the inner truth or an attempt at history, etc.). My feeling of glossolalia is that it is a hyper-aware and sensitized state of some kind, similar to a trance. I think it is not unique to Pentocostal type Christianity, but I couldn't say this for sure.


--des

One more comment on the matter, even though this particular subject is HUGE.. and gets into many things. It may be the most important evolutionary and spiritual step to open up the doors for humanity that there ever has been seen in modern times.

When I first mentioned a “Universal Language,” (on these boards in another thread) I meant it literally as “Universal” not just Planet Earthsville. Secondly, I was not speaking of a particular known language but rather tones/sounds that transcend all human languages, whereby Person A can be speaking English to Person B who speaks Chinese and both can fully understand each other without the need for an interpreter. I’m literally speaking of a basic numeric language that—I believe—is already encoded in our consciousness. Furthermore, it is truly a “Universal Language” in that—I believe—in accessing it can also allow humans to communicate with vegetation, rocks, animals and so on, because it will use vibrations through the vocal cords with full clarity of intent/communication.

ADDITION: By the way, I also believe that this language (which, I believe is already encoded in the consciousness) is NOT a written language. Furthermore, I do not believe there will be any need for written communication when the "Universal Language" is opened up because, in doing so, it will also open up the storehouse of all collective memory. Therefore, there will be no need for written records.
​

 

[Hope]

I have the gift of tongues. I too can testify it's definitely a real phenomenon.

Yuvgotmel----fascinating stuff you researched. Thanks for sharing it.

I think every person has a different experience with tongues. My father's best friend was given the gift of tongues when he became a Christian, and he researched it. He found out he was speaking ancient Hebrew. He had never studied Hebrew in his life.

I have no idea if I speak an ancient language or not. But I do know it's not something I conjured up in my head. It shocked me when I first started speaking it. I was a total skeptic before God supernaturally gave me the gift.

 

[gmelrod]

I think every person has a different experience with tongues. My father's best friend was given the gift of tongues when he became a Christian, and he researched it. He found out he was speaking ancient Hebrew. He had never studied Hebrew in his life.

I have no idea if I speak an ancient language or not. But I do know it's not something I conjured up in my head. It shocked me when I first started speaking it. I was a total skeptic before God supernaturally gave me the gift.

I have to ask how are you sure God gave you the gift. Is it not possible that under times of high emotional excitation and a desire for conscious submission, such as a particulaly moving service, you subconsicous language faculties, in a desire to participate contructed a series of sounds that you did not understand. Since it was a function of the subconsious you would of course be suprised. As regards your father's friend is it not possible that in this same mechanism his subcounsious desire reproduced some Hebrew he once herd, or sounds that were close enough to be called such. The mind has powers far beyond our current comprehension.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

it still doesnt make scense to me when i read that

Keep re-reading it. It will start to mark scense.

 

[gingernater]

Keep re-reading it. It will start to mark scense.

It still doesnt add in the god part. It makes no scense to me without it. I speak in tounges because of god. not because i can rember some ancient launguage that was once spoken and we all have hidden in ourselfs. The day of pentecost happened because of the holy spirit. Not some ancient tounge. gods spirit fell and they spoke. this is differnt to some ancient tounge that gets spoken of.

 

[Hope]

I have to ask how are you sure God gave you the gift. Is it not possible that under times of high emotional excitation and a desire for conscious submission, such as a particulaly moving service, you subconsicous language faculties, in a desire to participate contructed a series of sounds that you did not understand. Since it was a function of the subconsious you would of course be suprised. As regards your father's friend is it not possible that in this same mechanism his subcounsious desire reproduced some Hebrew he once herd, or sounds that were close enough to be called such. The mind has powers far beyond our current comprehension.

I agree that our mind has powers we aren't even aware of, or have lost. However, to suggest my father's friend started speaking ancient Hebrew because of some "subconscious desire" is absurd. Someone who actually knew ancient Hebrew was able to tell him that's what he was speaking. His language didn't just sound similar to ancient Hebrew---it was ancient Hebrew. And, no, my dad's friend had never heard or studied Hebrew in his life.

I understand your skepticism. As I said, I used to be skeptical myself. But I did not obtain the gift of tongues in a moving service or because of emotional excitement. Quite the opposite. I was very unemotional and skeptical right up until it happened. And I still have the gift. It wasn't a one-time thing, nor is it something that occurs only when I am in some emotional, spiritual fervor. I can stop and start it at will, whenever, wherever. But I only use it in prayer, because that's why I believe it was given to me.