Probably.
When it comes to names, I don't trust most people to be all that creative.
At the same time, it might have a second name, like Zen Buddhism is often shortened to "Zen".
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The future of Hinduism in America
- Thread starter Vinayaka
- Start date
Probably.
When it comes to names, I don't trust most people to be all that creative.
At the same time, it might have a second name, like Zen Buddhism is often shortened to "Zen".
Just like in Guyana, Fiji, Trinidad, Mauritius, South Africa, Malaysia, Bali (earlier), some 150 - 200 years ago. I like that idea.
Surya Deva
Well-Known Member
Honestly doubt it, American Hinduism is not really American Hinduism, it is Indian-American Hinduism. I can't see non-Indian Americans embracing Indian-Hinduism any time soon, when it would be superfluous to do so, as all ideas that they do embrace about Hinduism they have assimilated into their own religious traditions.
In fact I predict the exact opposite: Indian-Hinduism is going to go extinct especially as I see a foresee a fatal war between India and China in the next 5 years(which Indian military themselves predict) the loss of India and the death of hundreds of millions of Indian Hindus, destruction of its temples and indigenous traditions means the death of Indian-Hinduism in all its avatars.
Hinduism cannot survive globally because it is locally bound to Indians. If India is gone; Hinduism is gone.
What will survive is global spirituality which Hinduism has played the biggest part in shaping, but which does not actually belong to Hinduism, but is more a Western movement.
Uh... hello? I'm not of Indian descent at all. There are also plenty of non-Indian descended people who identify as Hindu.
Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami, who was one of the representatives of Hinduism in the 1993 parliament of world religions, was Caucasian.
Honestly, I doubt that. Besides, if a full-fledged war happens between China and India that would destroy the country as we know it, then even if it isn't nuclear, the death of Hinduism would be the least of the world's worries.
Hinduism is alive and well in the rest of the world, even if it is still niche.
Just as Buddhism broke free of Indian culture, Islam broke free of Arabian culture, Hinduism will, as well.
BTW, in today's rapidly moving world, you can't make accurate predictions five years in advance. A lot can happen in even a single year, let alone five. After all, suppose there's some kind of revolution in China that either makes it 'nicer' politically, or causes the country to collapse? There are just too many variables that are changing too fast for such long-term predictions to be trustworthy, regardless of who's making them.
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Surya Deva
Well-Known Member
You constitute only 1% of the worlds Hindu population. The vast majority of Hindus are of South Asian descent.
Buddhism broke free of Indian borders within a few centuries of its existence. Islam broke free of Arabian culture within decades. Hinduism, now approx existing for more than 5000 years(I would say 10,000 years, if we include the tribal aspect from the IVC) is still confined to India primarily. It will never go beyond India, because Hinduism is too ethnically and geographically bound. The word itself refers to the Indian culture and way of life. It is far too alienating for the rest of the world to accept it.
This is highly doubtful because the stakes are far too high. China claims as its territory the entire state of Arunchala pradesha of India, which is the source of the Brahmaputra river which is the primarily water source of much of India, if China gets control of this territory and builds a dam it will literally starve India into submission to China. China cannot afford to wait more than 5 years to get this territory, because Indian military power would have trebeled by then and India will have its own nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers and credible nuclear deterrent with ICBM capability that will make it it a case of MAD(mutually assured destruction) if a war between India and China happens. If China settles the matter before 5 years, then China can absorb damage from a war with India, even a few nuclear strikes(China probably doubts India has the political will to strike China)
All signs are actually pointing to the fact that a war is budding between India and China. For instance war rhetoric has already begun and routinely the media of both countries attack each other. The difference is, Chinese media is state controlled, therefore it is politically sanctioned war rhetoric. Aggressive posturing has already begun as Chinese soldiers now routinely enter into Arunchadala pradesha and mark the territory in Chinese, "This belongs to China" Chinese warships now sail into Indian waters. China has now successfully built all the infrastructure for war with India. Including a high speed military railway from Beijing to the border of Arunchala Pradesh and military bases in all neighboring hostile countries to India, effectively surrounding India.
Why do you think India recently fired an ICBM capable missile Agni V, bringing all of China into its range? It was part of India's war rheotric to China. Indian military analysts know that a war with China is coming and Chinese military equally know that a war with India must be waged fairly soon for China to win, because China cannot win a war with India after 5 years.
To put it simply: India is doomed. The Indian media was about a year ago strongly covering this story of Chinese military build up and gestures, but due to Indian government pressure have now gone quiet, but those higher up in the Indian military know what the ground reality is: War is coming. India is on its last days.
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Irrelevant.
You said that you can't see non-Indian Americans embracing Hinduism. The fact that I have proves that it's possible.
Hinduism is not that old.
The Vedic religion is gone, mostly, save for a few Brahmin families.
Whatever religion the IVC had is gone forever, disappearing from the world when it collapsed.
What we call Hinduism is not thousands of years old. What we call "Hinduism" is relatively recent. Even now, in America, it's gaining the kind of organization that you want.
My point that there are too many variables for accurate predictions that far in the future remains. We simply can't predict what will happen. Even if a war occurs, some Indian scientist somewhere could very well have a breakthrough idea that causes India to be a strong military presence in Asia. We simply don't know.
The most we can do is say what might happen should everything remain on course. If the last six years of my life have taught me anything, such thinking is no longer trustworthy. After all, during the Soviet-American Cold War, we came so close to nuclear war so many times that it was the likely end. The web of karma is so complex that nobody can see all its ends.
...BTW, do you mean India as a country will collapse and be absorbed into China, or that the entire subcontinent will go the way of Atlantis? 'Cause all countries that exist nowadays will be gone eventually, sooner or later.
Also, don't forget this: Confucianism and Daoism, religions that were ostensibly tied to China, have escaped to form identities of their own elsewhere.
Oh, and if anyone decides to make any sort of aggressive nuclear strike against anyone, I can guarantee that the UN, America, and any of the recipient's allies will not let that stand. If China nukes India, we can probably kiss all of modern civilization goodbye, because others will be nuking them right back; India won't have to.
I was also not aware that India fired any sort of ICBM, and I don't really care if they did. I don't keep up with the news; I've learned that that's a terrible way of knowing what's going on in the world, since journalists often exaggerate, if not outright lie, in order to make money.
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Surya Deva
Well-Known Member
You hardly represent all of non-Indian Americans now, yes? I mean I cannot generally see non-Indian Americans embracing Hinduism.
This is not true, for research clearly shows continuity between the IVC religion and Vedic religion, for example the same symbols like swastikas and aum have passed on, the same traditions of matriarchal worship, fire altars. Are you familiar with frawleys paradox? On one side we have a vast body of Vedic literature with no archaeological evidence and the other side we have a vast body of archeaological evidence of the IVC and no literature. Why don't we just put 2 and 2 together? The evidence is strong that IVC is already Vedic.
There is clear continuity between the early IVC period, the Vedic period, the Vedanta period, the Puranic period, and the modern period. It is a single religious tradition going back to the IVC, making it the oldest living religion in the world. It is ignorant to say Hinduism is only 200 years old.
Highly unlikely that some Indian scientist is going to suddenly invent an antimatter bomb weapon that is going to scare China lol(an antimatter explosion could rip an entire continent) Indian military technology is not innovative, it is highly reliant on Russian and Western technology. India is decades behind the Soviets and the West in military technology. It is also behind China.
It is not just a speculative possibility as I told you. The war rhetoric has started, the military infrastructure is in place, the military build up has begun. War is now very likely and the Indian military themselves have concluded this.
India will be absorbed by China and China is not going to be very kind with Indians. They will wipe out Hinduism from India, as they have wiped out Tibetan Buddhism from Tibet. I predict India will be under Chinese occupation in the next 5 years. (This is a country which is constantly falling under foreign rule because it is too divided)
Indeed, a war between two emerging superpowers of the 21st century, not to mention both nuclear powers, is of course going to be a world war. This is what India is banking on, hence its current love affair with America and other Western allies. America is courting India because of its own self-interests to contain China.
We are very much on the brink of a world war which will have two major triggers to it: A war between Iran vs Israel and the West; and a war between India vs China and Pakistan. Both wars are eminent and fermenting as we speak.
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Nobody represents all non-Indian Americans. America no longer has a centralized culture; it hasn't since the internet.
Besides, I've already listed a very important Hindu Sage who was as European as me. His disciple, who currently runs the Saiva Siddhanta Church, is also Caucasian.
You, yourself, deny the Puranic religion as true Hinduism.
You've just given a hypothesis. Swastikas are found elsewhere in the world, so that's not continuity.
The Vedic religion is a child of the Indo-Iranian religion, which is a child of the Proto-Indo-European religion. The IVC is as likely to be Dravidic as Vedic.
I didn't say an antimatter explosion. I said something. I'm not a weapons scientist, so I can't say what. Point is, it's a possibility.
We can't see the future. In five years, literally anything can happen.
I'm not denying that war is brewing. That's obvious. What I'm saying is that this world we live in is moving too fast to rely on long-term predictions. Heck, we've been failing at them for decades.
So, Hinduism will survive elsewhere just as Tibetan Buddhism has. I doubt China will have an easy time trying to claim Kauai, where Hinduism Today and the Himalayan Academy are based.
Besides, don't ever doubt the power of uniting against a common enemy.
Ah, so China won't be able to occupy India, since neither will exist.
Trust me: China is too ambitious for its own good. Trying to govern such a large expanse of land is impossible for a singular power. Heck, it's the place to go to if you're looking for pirated copies of stuff, an indication that they can't even govern what they currently have. They'll stretch themselves so thin that they'll just collapse in on themselves, being unable to govern the fringes of their empire.
Besides, there's another war that you don't seem to be aware of, yet will determine virtually everything.
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But you're an Aussie, so you don't count.
I'm just kidding! I'm just kidding! Don't hit.
Bane of my existence
...wait are you calling me the bane of your existence, or the fact that you're an Aussie?
The fact that because I'm an Aussie, I don't count.
Me Myself
Back to my username
I think it will spread. Religions change as the adapt to different cultures, this is normal and as always there will also be some branches that are "purer" than others.
It may not have happened for 5000 years, but that does not mean it wont happen now at all. We are in times of fast changes as people have already mentioned.
In any case, I am sure the worship of the Hindu deities is going to live long, probably as long as there are humans around here and surely spread out of India a lot.
We are a minority now, but with Hare Krishna´s work and all the new temples I would say a lot of people will be converted and then gonna pass it on. It has already happened to a degree. Also, the spread of vegetarianism while obviously it does not equate to hinduism itself, means the spread of a practice that is very imprtant to hinduism and one of those things that make many people say "oh, they had this wisdom all this time, maybe they are right on other stuff". The exposition with the culture (like in the case of restaurants) also makes the posibilities of conversion greater. No, eating in a hindu restaurant is not the same as being hindu or being part of the hindu religion, but it starts conections (yes, even if terribly superficial). With such connection comes curiosity and that can develop even to full and deep and involved worship and practice of it´s ideals.
If you want to say being hindu = doing everything that goes along with the practice and it being truly center of your life you would have to say the same for other religions, in just from there to most people religion is not the CENTER of their lifes, so it makes no sense to want to make an exception with hinduism when measuring who is really of which religion.
It may not have happened for 5000 years, but that does not mean it wont happen now at all. We are in times of fast changes as people have already mentioned.
In any case, I am sure the worship of the Hindu deities is going to live long, probably as long as there are humans around here and surely spread out of India a lot.
We are a minority now, but with Hare Krishna´s work and all the new temples I would say a lot of people will be converted and then gonna pass it on. It has already happened to a degree. Also, the spread of vegetarianism while obviously it does not equate to hinduism itself, means the spread of a practice that is very imprtant to hinduism and one of those things that make many people say "oh, they had this wisdom all this time, maybe they are right on other stuff". The exposition with the culture (like in the case of restaurants) also makes the posibilities of conversion greater. No, eating in a hindu restaurant is not the same as being hindu or being part of the hindu religion, but it starts conections (yes, even if terribly superficial). With such connection comes curiosity and that can develop even to full and deep and involved worship and practice of it´s ideals.
If you want to say being hindu = doing everything that goes along with the practice and it being truly center of your life you would have to say the same for other religions, in just from there to most people religion is not the CENTER of their lifes, so it makes no sense to want to make an exception with hinduism when measuring who is really of which religion.
The latest statistics show Hinduism to be the fastest growing religion in Australia. There are constantly new temples or ashrams developing. Most adherents in this country are still Indian but there's a significant amount of western Hindus and the number is growing gradually.
I believe it, but you should probably show those statistics.