the end of suffering

[lilithu]

Namaste Yall,

a woman in my sutta class just got back from a retreat where they did a meditation on the end of suffering. She couldn't remember the exact words but paraphrased it as going something like this:

We are here to end suffering. If the end of suffering is the most important goal, then we will succeed. If it is not, then we will not. If I am suffering then there is something that I care about more than the end of suffering. something, something, something...

I am hoping that someone here recognizes it and knows the words and the ending.

thanks,
-lilith

 

[Engyo]

Lilithu -

This isn't one I am familiar with; you might, or I can, if you wish, post it at E-sangha. That is probably the largest single-point collection of Buddhist-knowledgeable folks I am aware of.

http://www.e-sangha.com

 

[lilithu]

I found it! Well, actually, I got around to asking the woman and she kindly emailed it to me. I especially liked the first four lines, especially the fourth, not so much the last line. If I were to call myself Buddhist I would be a Mahayana Buddhist. The idea that I would only be concerned with the endding of my own suffering without thought to others appalls me. (Tho having said that, this particular meditation came from a Zen retreat.) I think that I will add this meditation to my daily practice.

We are here to end suffering.

If ending suffering is more important than anything, we will end suffering.

If ending suffering is not more important than anything, we will not end suffering.

If I am suffering, it is because I am choosing something over ending suffering.

We are not here to create and cling to beliefs.

We are here to pay attention.

We are here to use everything in our experience to see how we cause ourselves to suffer so we can drop that and end suffering.

 

[michel]

Remarkable piece, thanks, Lilithu.

 

[Engyo]

Greetings Lilithu,

I have read this a few times, and something disturbs me about it.
First off, my root assumption of reality, on this topic is, "The only thing suffering should teach one, is NOT to suffer." My second root assumption on this topic is that the cause of suffering is lack of illumination.

This is one of those times where it is useful to point out that the word Shakyamuni used was "dukkha" and that the english word "suffering" is only one of various meanings of dukkha. To focus on just that one meaning tends to lead us a bit off-track regarding what the Four Noble Truths are intended to convey. Others like "unsatisfactoriness" help, as does remembering that dukkha is also meant to refer to impermanence; that is that even if something is highly satisfactory, it will not last.

I do not mean to come off, sounding like a spiritual nazi on this but, the reality is that you cannot really help another. Yes, of course, you can attend to creature comforts, as we should, so that basic needs are met. However, only changes that come from within will have any lasting effect.

I guess this depends on what you mean by "help". If you mean "accomplish something for" then I must agree. However, I have been "helped" many times, by other people; who have helped me understand something I was missing, or shown me something which brought me insight through their behavior, etc. If one takes this understanding of "help" then I must disagree with your statement above.

 

[John Eastern]

I found it! Well, actually, I got around to asking the woman and she kindly emailed it to me. I especially liked the first four lines, especially the fourth, not so much the last line. If I were to call myself Buddhist I would be a Mahayana Buddhist. The idea that I would only be concerned with the endding of my own suffering without thought to others appalls me. (Tho having said that, this particular meditation came from a Zen retreat.) I think that I will add this meditation to my daily practice.

We are here to end suffering.

If ending suffering is more important than anything, we will end suffering.

If ending suffering is not more important than anything, we will not end suffering.

If I am suffering, it is because I am choosing something over ending suffering.

We are not here to create and cling to beliefs.

We are here to pay attention.

We are here to use everything in our experience to see how we cause ourselves to suffer so we can drop that and end suffering.

Yes again

 

[Darkdale]

Suffering is simply the state of someone incapable of letting the present become the past.

 

[John Eastern]

Suffering is simply the state of someone incapable of letting the present become the past.

Nope, tell me again.

 

[John Eastern]

Gimme that eightfold path, please. Okay, onefold, I'm not greedy.

 

[John Eastern]

(1) perfect view...

I just had to see it.

 

[Engyo]

Precisely, Engyo. "Suffering" also, if looked at realistically, will not last. Perhaps I am not getting the "lingo", but the temporal nature of this world would seem to be a given.

As far as lingo goes, take a look in the Overview of Buddhism here; that will give you some idea of where these concepts and ideas come from.

I am meaning, Door No. 1, of course. I am not saying that we should ignore the plight of others or that they cannot help us, in some ways, or we, them. What I am getting at is the simple fact that, in larger terms, if realization does not come from within one's self, imho, it is of limited value.

True. I cannot give you enlightenment; I can help you to find it for yourself. No one can give it to me, either; I must dispel my own illusions to awaken. You may be able to help me do so, in some part; but the changes are mine to make.