The Debate of God.

[godnotgod]

Who said I grovel at Satan??? Satan is not an idol, I have no image of him to have!

You seem to think that Satanism is all about Satan worship, but it's not, it's not even nessisary to be a Satanist :no: You took two sentences out of context. She meant them as to revere or respect Satan, who makes Satanists his peers.

Is my gratitude for what God (of Whom Satan is one of many titles) did for me, how he has literally come to me or answered me physically mean that my appreciation is idol worship? No! An idol will never come to you, but a god will.

Satanism is about lifting up and developing the Satanist, "Kepher" in a word. Satan is a great tester and prosecutor, the word "Satan" actually means "accuser" or "opposition" after all! He is that god which lays out challenges before us so that we can learn and grow from them.

One more time, I am going to repeat what SHE, the author of the website, says about Satanism:

[SIZE=+1]"A theistic Satanist, also known as a "traditional Satanist," "spiritual Satanist," or "Devil Worshiper," is one who does believe in and worship Satan as a deity, or who at least is strongly inclined in that direction. When this website first went online in fall 2002 C.E, we theistic Satanistswere still a despised minority within the public Satanist scene.[/SIZE]"

'Worship' is not merely to revere or respect. I can revere/respect anyone/anything without worship. To worship is to idolize. This is none other than Idolatrous Love, no matter how much you want to euphemize the practice to make it palatable.

Now, I am not saying it is good or bad; I am merely identifying it for what it is, and what it is is Ego Projection onto an Idol, real or imaginary.

 

[jasonwill2]

One more time, I am going to repeat what SHE, the author of the website, says about Satanism:


'Worship' is not merely to revere or respect. I can revere/respect anyone/anything without worship. To worship is to idolize. This is none other than Idolatrous Love, no matter how much you want to euphemize the practice to make it palatable.

Now, I am not saying it is good or bad; I am merely identifying it for what it is, and what it is is Ego Projection onto an Idol, real or imaginary.

She doesn't define worship as idolizing, she defines it completely different on the site in an entire article as being revering and respecting deeply without groveling. (I can't find it at the moment, the site is really massive with tons of articles and entire areas I have barely looked into before).

And stop treating it like it's monlithically authoritative, it's one source with good information but it's not a holy book and even I don't agree with her on everything, and her beliefs are totally different then mine anyway.

You keep saying that "worship" is idolization, what ever the hell that means. I'm sorry but you just sound like another pulpit-pounder to me labeling apparently a ton of stuff as idol worship.

What religion isn't idol worship to you?

I believe:

SATAN = GOD

So is the reverence of God almighty really idol worship?

Also:

1. reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

2. formal or ceremonious rendering of such honor and homage: They attended worship this morning.

3. adoring reverence or regard: excessive worship of business success.

4. the object of adoring reverence or regard.

5. ( initial capital letter ) British . a title of honor used in addressing or mentioning certain magistrates and others of high rank or station (usually preceded by Your, His, or Her )

Worship | Define Worship at Dictionary.com

1. an image or other material object representing a deity to which religious worship is addressed.

2. Bible
a. an image of a deity other than God.
b. the deity itself.

3. any person or thing regarded with blind admiration, adoration, or devotion: Madame Curie had been her childhood idol.

4. a mere image or semblance of something, visible but without substance, as a phantom.

5. a figment of the mind; fantasy.

Idol | Define Idol at Dictionary.com

by these definitions, I worship (but it's not a requirement of the path), but I do not worship an idol.

 

[Thief]

Who said I grovel at Satan??? Satan is not an idol, I have no image of him to have!

You seem to think that Satanism is all about Satan worship, but it's not, it's not even nessisary to be a Satanist :no: You took two sentences out of context. She meant them as to revere or respect Satan, who makes Satanists his peers.

Is my gratitude for what God (of Whom Satan is one of many titles) did for me, how he has literally come to me or answered me physically mean that my appreciation is idol worship? No! An idol will never come to you, but a god will.

Satanism is about lifting up and developing the Satanist, "Kepher" in a word. Satan is a great tester and prosecutor, the word "Satan" actually means "accuser" or "opposition" after all! He is that god which lays out challenges before us so that we can learn and grow from them.

This post sounds a great deal like the description I might use to display the Almighty.

Not so much the domineering 'accuser'....but otherwise the same.

All that is missing is the notation of, Creator.

 

[YeshaYaHu]

Satan has also been described as the lesser light created in Genesis given power to rule over the night. The Temperer.

 

[jasonwill2]

Satan has also been described as the lesser light created in Genesis given power to rule over the night. The Temperer.

Some also don't believe in Satan as described in Christianity but as something more ancient, universal, powerful and primordial then some small-time angel.

Now some may think that "Satan" as a "fallen angel" is not small time, but their Satan is nothing but a wisp compared to the Satan that I revere and work with. The Satan that I work with is inherently integrated into the very essence of nature, life, and reality.

 

[YeshaYaHu]

Some also don't believe in Satan as described in Christianity but as something more ancient, universal, powerful and primordial then some small-time angel.

Now some may think that "Satan" as a "fallen angel" is not small time, but their Satan is nothing but a wisp compared to the Satan that I revere and work with. The Satan that I work with is inherently integrated into the very essence of nature, life, and reality.

And yet the Truth and fullness of our relationship with the One Living Reality is as a marriage. Not adversaries.

 

[otokage007]

Here is a presentation of The One True God.

/snipped out video

Why are u obsessed with that video, why are u posting it everywhere ¬¬

Could u sumarise?

 

[jasonwill2]

And yet the Truth and fullness of our relationship with the One Living Reality is as a marriage. Not adversaries.

Satan is a manifestation of the All. Reality is not like a marriage, how can you say that when you are eating the bloody flesh of another animal on your dinner plate tonight, with the killed plants on the side, and when people kill each other over water in droughts and famines wipe out thousands?

God is opposition my friend, duality that never ceases to amaze, create, and destroy.

 

[YeshaYaHu]

Why are u obsessed with that video, why are u posting it everywhere ¬¬

Could u sumarise?

Call it a parental excitement

I have made a single thread on it.

It is a tour of our origins explaining what we actually are and are a part of.

Who we are capable of being.

Explains the qualities of God as they unfold to make the universe, what shapes they make and how they create together.

Explains origins of consciousness, all life, matter and anti-matter, DNA, sudden speciation and destruction, ice ages, biblical histories and the geologic record, what has come before and what is shortly coming!

And thanks for the help!

 

[godnotgod]

Satan is a manifestation of the All. Reality is not like a marriage, how can you say that when you are eating the bloody flesh of another animal on your dinner plate tonight, with the killed plants on the side, and when people kill each other over water in droughts and famines wipe out thousands?

God is opposition my friend, duality that never ceases to amaze, create, and destroy.

'Satan' cannot be a manifestation of the All. The All is already a manifestation out of Nothingness; What you call 'Satan' is only a part of that manifestation, but my point is that you are turning it into a PERSONIFICATION of that energy, in exactly the same way that Christians create a personification of the opposite energy they call 'Jesus'. In both cases, these are Projections of the Ego, and in this particular case, what is termed Idolatrous Love, being one of the Five Egotistical States as understood in psychology. Furthermore, you are, like the Christian, pitting one energy principle against its opposite as a consequence of your deluded thought. In other words, you see duality and opposition where none actually exists. In fact, underneath the appearance of duality and opposition is actually oneness and collaboration. The duality and opposition you see exists nowhere else but in your own mind, a product of how the rational mind attempts to interpret and explain the world, and what the Hindus refer to as maya, or illusion. When you learn to see beyond the appearances, you will then be able to see the underlying unity and harmony. We symbolize this unity and harmony of the opposites as:

I further suspect that 'Satan' may be a personification of Eros, while 'Jesus' is one of 'Agape'. There has long been a conflict in the Christian world of the 'spirit vs the flesh', but it is ironic that in that same world, the flesh is re-united with the spirit in a heavenly paradise.

 

[jasonwill2]

'Satan' cannot be a manifestation of the All. The All is already a manifestation out of Nothingness; What you call 'Satan' is only a part of that manifestation, but my point is that you are turning it into a PERSONIFICATION of that energy, in exactly the same way that Christians create a personification of the opposite energy they call 'Jesus'. In both cases, these are Projections of the Ego, and in this particular case, what is termed Idolatrous Love, being one of the Five Egotistical States as understood in psychology. Furthermore, you are, like the Christian, pitting one energy principle against its opposite as a consequence of your deluded thought. In other words, you see duality and opposition where none actually exists. In fact, underneath the appearance of duality and opposition is actually oneness and collaboration. The duality and opposition you see exists nowhere else but in your own mind, a product of how the rational mind attempts to interpret and explain the world, and what the Hindus refer to as maya, or illusion. When you learn to see beyond the appearances, you will then be able to see the underlying unity and harmony. We symbolize this unity and harmony of the opposites as:

I further suspect that 'Satan' may be a personification of Eros, while 'Jesus' is one of 'Agape'. There has long been a conflict in the Christian world of the 'spirit vs the flesh', but it is ironic that in that same world, the flesh is re-united with the spirit in a heavenly paradise.

Um, actually not. You really assume way, WAY too much about my beliefs. I never said that duality works against itself, it is complimentary actually, and without duality (and opposing forces as literal opposing physical forces of physics) nothing could exist:

example: pressure from nuclear reactions push stars outwards, gravity pulls in. Both opposing forces keep the star from either blowing up or collapsing, and give off light and energy for billions or millions of years. This would be impossible if the pressure from the nuclear reactions and gravity were not working against each other.

I got more examples, but I'm pressed for time right now with super urgent things.

 

[godnotgod]

Um, actually not. You really assume way, WAY too much about my beliefs. I never said that duality works against itself, it is complimentary actually, and without duality (and opposing forces as literal opposing physical forces of physics) nothing could exist:

example: pressure from nuclear reactions push stars outwards, gravity pulls in. Both opposing forces keep the star from either blowing up or collapsing, and give off light and energy for billions or millions of years. This would be impossible if the pressure from the nuclear reactions and gravity were not working against each other.

They're not. They're actually working together, but not in a manner that is willful.

'Working against each other' is in your head.

You called Satan a god. How am I assuming too much about your beliefs when I call that a personification?

 

[jasonwill2]

They're not. They're actually working together, but not in a manner that is willful.

'Working against each other' is in your head.

You called Satan a god. How am I assuming too much about your beliefs when I call that a personification?

why did you leave out the chart? Did you notice on the left that there was a literal and external entity known as "ha-satan"? It was mentioned in the notes at the bottom that "Ha-Satan" always meant that.

I have met this entity too. And he's not "a god", he's THE GOD, in pure form before he bridged to leviathan via that which extends within and without, which is our creation. Leviathan is the personification, not Ha-Satan.

 

[godnotgod]

why did you leave out the chart? Did you notice on the left that there was a literal and external entity known as "ha-satan"? It was mentioned in the notes at the bottom that "Ha-Satan" always meant that.

I have met this entity too. And he's not "a god", he's THE GOD, in pure form before he bridged to leviathan via that which extends within and without, which is our creation. Leviathan is the personification, not Ha-Satan.

Your chart is your system by which you attempt to define reality.

What do you mean 'he's the God in pure form' which you have 'met' [too]?

 

[jasonwill2]

Your chart is your system by which you attempt to define reality.

What do you mean 'he's the God in pure form' which you have 'met' [too]?

I mean that it literally and physically CAME TO ME in person in the sense of literal locality of literally standing there near me in spacial dimensions.

And I mean that this thing is the Creator, and that he is the last remnant of God in his true form before 99% of him became Leviathan.

 

[godnotgod]

I mean that it literally and physically CAME TO ME in person in the sense of literal locality of literally standing there near me in spacial dimensions.

And I mean that this thing is the Creator, and that he is the last remnant of God in his true form before 99% of him became Leviathan.

Uh-huh. Buddhists experience this phenomena all the time. It is called makyo.

So Ha-Satan is the pure form of God before he became Leviathan, which is the creation.

But form IS what the creation is all about. The whole point of God being what God is, is that God cannot be encapsulated in form, as form is temporal and finite.

There is no 'pure form' of God; there is only the Formless, out of which all form is manifested.

 

[YeshaYaHu]

Uh-huh. Buddhists experience this phenomena all the time. It is called makyo.

So Ha-Satan is the pure form of God before he became Leviathan, which is the creation.

But form IS what the creation is all about. The whole point of God being what God is, is that God cannot be encapsulated in form, as form is temporal and finite.

There is no 'pure form' of God; there is only the Formless, out of which all form is manifested.

Form implies static being.

So perhaps the body of God is through transition of forms.

All forms.

 

[jasonwill2]

The whole point of God being what God is, is that God cannot be encapsulated in form, as form is temporal and finite.

This is a common idea in a number of religions but I think it's ********. If God is infinite, why did he create finite beings in his image in a finite Universe? God has to be finite if I am to actually be a pantheist, which I am.

 

[godnotgod]

This is a common idea in a number of religions but I think it's ********. If God is infinite, why did he create finite beings in his image in a finite Universe? God has to be finite if I am to actually be a pantheist, which I am.

We don't know of any such God that exists who 'created' anything, let alone finite beings in his image. That is merely a belief system. What we call 'things' and 'beings' do not really exist as such; they are only temporal forms which come and go. At all times such things and beings are interconnected with everything else. That they are separate, finite things and entities is an illusion. The Hindus, for example, do not think of themselves as static egos, but as actions. There is no such thing as a wave on the ocean, or a river that flows, for example, and there is no such thing as a separate ego you call "I" that acts upon the world.

So rather than think of ourselves and other 'things' as finite 'creations', we can instead look at them as something the universe is doing. The universe at this moment is 'peopling', just as the ocean is 'waving'.

The problem with a world that was 'created' has always been the original source material, both for religion and science. But a manifested world, in which the manifestation is an illusion, has no problem with coming up with the source for the material because it did'nt exist to begin with.

But to return to the issue at hand, the nature of the Infinite (the Absolute; the Void; Tao; God; etc.) cannot be encapsulated in form. Form has no abiding or permanent substance that can be called 'God' or 'the Absolute', and so the Buddhists say:

"Form is emptiness;
Emptiness is form"

finite universe? It could very well be causeless and beginingless, and therefore infinite. We now have evidence of pre-existing background microwave radiation prior to the Big Bang, which indicates the prior presence of a universe, and suggests a cyclical condition, something the Hindus have said for centuries.

 

[godnotgod]

"If I can't have you * no 1 can I swear 2 god I'm gonna kill u if I see u with another man So take my hand & come 2 The Left Hand Path & when it's all said and done it's gonna be a blood bath Go and laugh cause u stole my heart but next time I see u * I'm gonna rip u apart"

-SickTanicK

Mental emanations from a lower consciousness, karma-driven, ego-possessed being.